Evan Turner Balls Hard in BBVA Rising Stars Challenge
by Michael Levin on Feb 24, 2012 8:26 PM PST
in 2012 All-Star Weekend
Email
Print
While Kenny Smith kept repeating "he needs to get in the Dunk Contest" about John Wall at the end of this "game", Evan Turner quietly had himself a game reminiscent of Future Evan Turner. I would know, I'm from the future. Kyrie Irving hit every shot in the world, Blake Griffin and Ricky Rubio tickled each other a few times, and Jeremy Lin talked about his body - but ET did his own version of Andre Iguodala and helped Team Chuck win over Team Shaq in the Rookie/Sophomore Game.
I was pretty surprised to find that Evan was starting for Chuck, alongside Kyrie Irving, Paul George (!), Derrick Williams, and DeMarcus Cousins. Turner made a few really nifty passes to Cousins, but my favorite was when he was posting up and went behind his head to Gordon Hayward who made the extra pass to Kyrie for the finish. Evan finished with THE MOST MINUTES IN THE GAME and a line of 16 points (on 8-9 shooting), 11 rebounds, and 7 assists. No free throws, natch.
Anybody think this will make a tangible difference the rest of the season? I don't. I think he'll be better in the second half, but it won't be because he got more "confidence" in this extremely exhibition game. It'll be because, well, he's a better player than he's been playing and the improvements he's shown since last year will be even more pronounced once a few jumpers start going in (as they did in this game) and Jrue Holiday keeps distributing. Having him handle the ball more (as Mr. Price pointed out on Twitter) instead of the Boss would do well towards giving him an actual role on the team instead of that awkward kid who rebounds a lot.
74 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I loved his effort.
Can’t wait til he really has confidence in his jumper, but that’ll come by next year. I really think ET should get more time handling the ball instead of Lou esp. since Lou is likely to leave us after this season and I’d much rather see Turner fill his shoes as he can use that as a stepping stone next year to really put a dent into his all-star campaign for 2014. I know it’s a long way away, but playing behind Iggy, Lou, Meeks, etc. it’s not easy to get him minutes to grow on a winning team especially one that wants to win now and not struggle through growing pains
by Vince1129 on Feb 24, 2012 8:32 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Meeks is one of the worst players in the NBA. I understand how it would be hard to get ET minutes behind Iggy, but Meeks? It’s a joke. No other coach in the NBA would play Meeks more than ET.
You’re making it extremely difficult to like Evan Turner with how completely deluded you are about this situation.
by Michael Levin on Feb 25, 2012 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
What’s deluded about thinking no other coach in the NBA would start Meeks over Turner? I don’t see how that’s even in dispute, look around the league, how many teams start a 3-point specialist who shoots under 40% from three?
Meeks’ 3P%= .399%. Really helps your case to refer to that as “under 40%” instead of giving the number.
by philsandthrills on Feb 25, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
fair enough. revised: how many teams start a 3-point specialist shooting between 38 and 42% from three?
A LOT OF TEAMS. Bobcats (Reggie Williams – 30%, Bulls (Korver – 41%), Cavs (Boogie Gibson – 41%), Warriors (Dorell Wright – 36%), Bucks (Delfino – 39%), Nets (Morrow – 40%), Hornets (Belinelli – 38%), Thunder (Daequan Cook – 34%), Magic (Ryan Anderson – 43%), Suns, (Channing Frye – 34%), Blazers (Jamal Crawford – 35%), Spurs (Danny Green – 37%), Jazz (Raja Bell – 43%).
Lose the vendetta please, it’s getting extremely annoying and entirely factless.
by Michael Levin on Feb 25, 2012 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
Bobcats, Cavs and Hornets are the worst teams in the league, they are starting D-leaguers and are obviously not comparable. Korver has started 4 games all year. Cook is an injury replacement. Wright, Morrow, Frye, Anderson, Crawford, Bell, and Green are not 3-point specialists, they do other things on the floor besides shoot threes.
You disagree and that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean it’s a vendetta. Your web site trashed Vucevic for months and it was completely baseless, ridiculous, and wrong. But I never claimed it was a vendetta, you guys were just misinformed. It happens.
2010-2011:
DeShawn Stevenson started 58 games for the Mavs. 249 of his 330 shot attempts were 3-pointers. He shot 37.8%. Statistically he also played some pretty bad defense.
Keith Bogans started 82 games for the Bulls. 237 of his 307 attempts were 3s. He shot 38%
2009-2010:
Derek Fisher started 82 games for the Lakers. 224 out of his 558 attempts were 3s. He shot 34.8%
Rashard Lewis started 72 games for the Magic. 423 of 805 were 3s. 39.7%
Channing Frye started 41 games for the Suns. 392
2008-2009
Courtney Lee 42 starts for the Magic. 203 out of 540. 40.4%
This is just looking at teams that made at least the Conference Championship in the past 3 seasons.
A lot more could be included if I was looking for people with similar minutes played than Jodie rather than the silly designation of starts.
Derek Fish is a PG not a 3-point specialist. Rashard Lewis and Channing Frye are not 3-point specialists. DeShawn Stevenson is actually a defensive specialist (or at least was in Washington).
Courtney Lee is probably a good example, but that’s also why he’s not starting this year.
If Rashard Lewis isn’t a three-point specialist, no one is.
by Michael Levin on Feb 26, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
In the triangle offense the PG is a spot up shooter. That was one of Fisher’s biggest roles offensively. Rashard Lewis was brought in to Orlando entirely because they wanted a 3 pt shooting PF to play off Dwight. Channing Frye has averaged at least 6.2 3-pointers per 36 minutes since being he joined Phoenix.
Bogans is out of the league for a reason. Starting him at SG is why the Bulls went down so handily to the Heat last year.
If the Bulls would’ve started Evan Turner instead of Keith Bogans they would’ve won the next 20 championships.
"If Iguodala were a legitimate "true" 17 PPG scorer, we’d be a better team. When at least 8 of those points come off the fast break, his true offensive production is a reality: 8-11 PPG." - LeQuan Glover
Thank you for changing the subject to something irrelevant.
Here’s what you said:
No other coach in the NBA would play Meeks more than ET.
how many teams start a 3-point specialist shooting between 38 and 42% from three?
There are tons of teams, as I’ve given evidence to, that start a 3-point specialist over more able players. They have a defined role, and spacing the floor is not something that should be ignored. What you’re saying is not only off-base, it’s making excuses to support your own flawed argument. The sad thing is, I want Turner to get more minutes than Meeks, but for how terribly you’re arguing for it, I’m sadly starting to sway the other way.
by Michael Levin on Feb 25, 2012 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
Sure dude. Except the only players you gave that were 3-point specialists were on the Bobcats and Cavs. Unless you define 3-point specialist as “someone who takes a lot of threes,” you’re just making stuff up. Channing Frye and Ryan Anderson as 3-point specialists is ridiculous. May as well include Kevin Durant if your’e going with that garbage.
A 3-point specialist is someone who shoots threes and does nothing else on the floor. Jodie Meeks, Kyle Korver, James Jones are three-point specialists.
And the Vucevic analogy is completely relevant. You’re so quick to call someone “factless” and say they have a “vendetta” for taking a position that you don’t agree with. You love to attack people with condescension and treat them like they are idiots, as if you’ve never been wrong about anything.
I’m capable of simply ignoring this conversation because it’s my site and an occasional bit of upturned noseness is allowed from time to time, but I’ll finish with this.
You brought up Vucevic because you were losing the argument. Plain and simple. But I’ll answer it (again) by saying I did not have a huge problem with Vucevic the player, I had a problem with the philosophy they were adopting by taking an extremely low-upside, slow big man. Vuce will be a solid backup center for a long time, but it indicates that the Sixers thought they were closer to a championship than I did. I needed them to gamble for contention, not chip away at the huge talent gap between them and the elite teams, which is what the Vucevic (and Allen) picks were to me.
In terms of addressing wrongness, I ALWAYS call myself out for being wrong. I was wrong about Jrue, though it’s not like Ty Lawson hasn’t been better. I was wrong about the team this year, and I’m sticking with them despite the major slumping. I’m generally wrong about Lou, because he’s more efficient than I give him credit for – I just don’t think a player like him could have this big of a role on a championship team.
The three-point specialist thing is absurd. You’re cherrypicking players and stats to validate your point. The guys I listed would all qualify as three-point specialists. So would Ray Allen, who I didn’t list because he’s shooting above the arbitrary marker you came up with. Engaging in an argument with you further than this would not solve anything so I’ll be opting out.
by Michael Levin on Feb 26, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
All fine. We disagree on the definition of 3-point specialist which is mainly why we are disagreeing at all.
I brought up Vucevic because you called me “factless,” not because I was losing the argument, but whatevs. My point was that your site trashed him and said he was garbage and had no upside with no justification whatsoever (truly “factless”).
I think you’re right about Lou. Don’t concede on that one.
Meeks
Let’s be honest Meeks is not that great of a player but it not his job to be great; his job to spread the floor so Dre and Holiday can slash into the paint. If Turner in the game the paint would be too crowded. He there three point shooter and until they find someone to do Meeks job better that who they have and there making the best with the roster they have which isn’t bad at all. They just need that one piece to put everything together
by Clarence Price on Feb 25, 2012 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
You’re right. Meeks just stands there and the defense uses 5 men to defend the four other players.
You’re judging the effectiveness of stretching the floor solely on the possessions in which Meeks shoots the ball. Just because a player is a good 3-point shooter doesn’t mean his defender will never help defend the ball handler on a double team. It means that he will be more reluctant to and he will have a slightly longer distance to cover for the help.
1. It’s good when your best 3 point shooter knows how to move to get wide open.
2. Have you considered that you only notice him being wide open because 3 point shooters mostly only get the ball when they are wide open, because if they are defended well it doesn’t make sense to pass them the ball? (because that’s what’s happening)
shhhhhh, that makes too much sense. You’re not supposed to say stuff like that.
"If Iguodala were a legitimate "true" 17 PPG scorer, we’d be a better team. When at least 8 of those points come off the fast break, his true offensive production is a reality: 8-11 PPG." - LeQuan Glover
You're totally right, my bad.
Mr. Levin makes a good point though, it feels like expending all this energy on these terrible arguments in support of Turner is starting to warp my actual opinion of his situation.
If Cousins could have finished half of what ET gave him...
EASY triple-double.
Even though this was a schoolyard game, watching Turner with the ball is so much fun…he is WAY more fluid and creative than Jrue, IMO. I know that there is exactly ZERO chance that Collins would take ET into his office at PCOM on Monday and say, “Evan, starting tomorrow night, you are in the starting lineup…and I am not going to pull you the first time you turn the ball over, so play hard…play smart…and have FUN out there…”
But, hey – a guy can dream, can’t he?
this story
made me disappointed. sadface
by pqrklife on Feb 24, 2012 8:52 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I watched him a lot in college and it’s apparent to me that he’s a player who needs the ball in his hands to really flourish. If he gets the jumper going he can be a decent spot-up 18 foot jump-shooter, but he’s at his best when he’s distributing, pushing the ball, and making plays. Sure, last night nobody played any defense, but Evan looked more comfortable in this game than he’s looked on the Sixers in quite some time.
It ain't rock, it ain't roll, if we don't disagree
Nope
I don’t see ET improving much this year. He needs consistent minutes to do so and I don’t see that on the team as currently constructed. If Meeks went down with an injury, or Jrue/Lou/Iggy got traded or benched, then he improves.
Even the most lackluster talent (Matt Barnes) can’t do anything without minutes. Buried in the Speights role under Mo Cheeks, he is now a servicable backup SF for the Lakers with a decent 3 point shot.
An interesting statement from ET over All-Star weekend when he was shooting the behind the backboard shots to set the world record: “I can’t hit a jump shot, but I just set the world record for a trick shot.”
Really telling on where the kidet’s head is right now. No confidence.
confidence
this should be what doug collins is really working on. it was great early in the season when he built up everyone’s confidence and had them out to a fast start, playing good basketball. but i feel like when things start to slip he just wanted to fight to keep the record going, without realizing the record was representative of how his players were feeling.
the comfort issue is a HUGE deal. i was a little nervous that ET was gonna struggle in this game against his peers, but i realized thats JUST because i’ve had to watch his confidence wane on the 6ers. he absolutely looked like he belonged out there. and while kyrie got the mvp nailing 3s, and wall threw down some nasty dunks, turner to cousins was the whole tale of the lead that Team Chuck put on the board. some of those looks were just nasty.
Trade Jrue for a scorer.
Start ET at point.
I'm great like Gatsby.
by Clint Eastwood on Feb 25, 2012 8:10 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Jrue, Iggy and a first for monta.
I'm great like Gatsby.
by Clint Eastwood on Feb 25, 2012 3:21 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The people that are screaming for Turner to start(even though that’s nothing new around here) know that last night’s game was an exhibition game right? I agree that he should have the ball in his hands more when he’s out there with Lou but 1) he didn’t bring up the ball as much as you guys think last night & 2) bottom line is if he wants to start he needs to learn to play off the ball like Mike said since Jrue & Dre will handle it before he does
The Legend
Why should Jrue "handle it" before ET does?
What is is about Jrue’s handle and passing ability that – without question – makes a discussion about whether ET should have the ball in his hands more a ridiculous suggestion?
I guess I have missed those games where Jrue looks like the reincarnation of Maurice Cheeks.
Even if Jrue IS the better ball handler and passer, shouldn’t the goal be to get the best 5 guys on the floor as much as possible? If Jrue is the better “scorer” (shooting from distance, agressiveness on the drive, etc…) than ET, then why not let ET share the ball handling responsibilities with Jrue? This is called “taking advantage” of ET’s tool-box. He is a better ballhandler and passer than Meeks, right? He is also better on the defensive end than Meeks (especially rebounding), right? Can Meeks get the defensive rebound and push the ball in transition? Huh?
It frustrates me that a one-trick pony like Meeks dictates the rotations on this team…but it frustrates me JUST AS MUCH that when the subject of ET being out there not as an off-the-ball guy but a guy with the ball in his hands (like he was last night…like he was when he was the freaking NAISMITH PLAYER OF THE YEAR) comes up, the stock answer is “well…Jrue’s the PG”…
SO?
Frazier and Monroe
Sloan and Van Lier
Jones and Greer
They weren’t “point guard” and “shooting guard”. They were GUARDS. They could both handle the ball. They could both pass. They could both get theirs on offense. They were PLAYERS.
This team does not have excess talent to waste. Stubbornly sticking to a dogmatic view of players does us NO GOOD. I could give a rat’s azz if Jrue is a protypical PG or not. In fact, when it comes to developing a closer…a game-ending assassin to hit big shots, I think that Jrue has the cojones to do it…so why not let ET facilitate that?
Why not?
Well, because….er…aahhh…ummm…because Jrue is the POINT GUARD. That’s why.
(smh)
WHY CAN'T YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULL THAT LAST NIGHT WAS AN EXHIBITION GAME!
They played 2 20 minute half’s last night & the score was 146-133 you don’t even see that score when games go to triple OT in regular season or playoff games sometimes, you want to know why? BECAUSE TEAMS PLAY DEFENSE! THERE WAS NO DEFENSE PLAYED LAST NIGHT! I think Turner’s going to be a great player for us but for people to say we should bench or trade Jrue because of last night is asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, asithirteen, asifourteen, asififteen, asisixteen, asiseventeen, asieighteen, asinineteen, asitwenty! That’s right I went all the way up to 20 which happens to be Jodie Meeks number in case you forgot
The Legend
Who is saying "bench or trade Jrue"???
I am saying WHY DOES JRUE HOLIDAY HAVE TO ALWAYS BE THE PG???
Play Jrue and ET together. Let them BOTH handle the ball. Let them BOTH facilitate the offense. Let them BOTH isolate and score the ball.
Where did you get “bench or trade Jrue” from my post?
by bebopdeluxe on Feb 25, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
The trade or bench part wasn’t directed at you but other people have said that in this comment thread. Jrue plays off at times every single game he’s not always the PG so I don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to Jrue is always the PG
The Legend
When he is out there with Meeks...
…is Jrue not the PG?
When he is out there with Lou, is Jrue not the PG?
How often lately have you seen ET out there with Jrue and Iguodala? We saw it a TON the first 15-20 games of the season.
If Evan Turner is going to be more than the backup SF for this team, and if he is going to play MATERIAL minutes for this team, he is going to have to be out there with Jrue…right?
I would absolutely LOVE it if ET and Jrue played more together…if it wasn’t for that damn “floor spacing”…
(smh…again)
It may be, but he’s not going to get more minutes until he is more productive in his limited minutes that he is getting. It’s the way of the Dougy. He feels like he knows what he has in players like Tha BOSS, and that the benefits of having Tha BOSS with the ball in his hands and able to run his BOSS ISOs outweigh the benefits of developing Turner.
I think that’s the thing. The Dougy likes going with what he knows. He knows how Meeks interacts with Jrue and Dre. He knows what happens when Tha BOSS has the ball in his hands. It’s not that he hates young players, or that Turner is in the Doug House™. It’s that he likes predictability. He has his ideas about what his team should look like, and what his players can do, and what works and doesn’t work.
Turner doesn’t really fit into his team concept, as far as his envisioning of what works for him, because he’s locked into his patterns.
It’s not horrible or evil or terrible, or even stupid. It’s just a little stubborn, which most coaches are. The stuff we see as obvious are not, when considered in the context of a coach’s strategy.
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, there will be no trade for Monta!
but its not like he didnt see the JTI combo out there for the beginning part of the season, he should have some sort of sense of what the back-court of jrue and turner gives you.
maybe in my mind i’m understating the weight of that opinion, that collins doesnt know what he has in a rookie and is afraid of that uncertainty. all i know is that the team has looked lost on offense, but turner clearly looked like he knew what to do with the ball the other night.
and thats enough turner lovin for me for one evening…
I understand all that. We’re simply excited with Turner’s upside and frustrated he doesn’t get more playing time. I also understand part of that is on Turner, not just Collins, he has to play better. But I definitely don’t think we have to trade or bench Jrue, I like Jrue, (even though he’s pissed me off a bit this year) and understand he is part of our future.
Here is my main problem. I don’t care about winning right now. At all. I care about developing our young players and building for the future. Having the upside to maybe win a round in the playoffs just isn’t that exciting to me.
EXACTLY
I don’t give a flying FRACK about what “Tha BOSS” can do – although we ALL know what you get when you get BOSS – especially since he might be GONE this summer.
My feeling is, even if we keep BOSS after this summer, we know pretty much how things will end right now…and I don’t think any of us think it’s enough. The only shot this group has is if Jrue steps up to be a closer…and that has the BEST shot of happening if Turner is out there with him. There is no further upside to BOSS – we can win a round (maybe) and that’s it, IMO.
A question: if Jrue can step up to be a closer (at least some nights), and Turner can run things like he did last night, is that upside from the world of Meeks and BOSS? And if the answer to that could possibly be yes, then why are we letting the rest of this season be defined by BOSS?
he brought it up to build the initial lead
he just looked more comfortable with the ball in his hands. it seems evident to me at least whenever i watch turner he seems better with the ball in his hands and dribbling than he does off ball.
It didn't really happen...
…if the press didn’t write about it.
No mention of Turner at all. I guess the world at large isn’t as impressed with Turner as we are :)
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, there will be no trade for Monta!
dude
even during the highlight reel from early in the game (early as in when demarcus and turner were the 2 top producers on the team) kenny smith didn’t even call him by name. he got called ‘the sixers guard’ and was referred to as ‘these other guys’ when discussing court vision in the game.
I think the reason turner did not get alot of love for what he did was more because collins is apart of the tnt crew. Remember that was collins old job. Saying Turner is amazing or a great pg is basically saying collins do you realize what you have out here. Even when they did mention turners numbers kenny responded by saying when turner puts it all together this will be is regular stats.
That is another reason why he played so many minutes, they knew he had a chance for triple double so they played him the minutes to get it, there is no conspiracy or sterns guys. If it wasn’t for irving Turner probably would of walked home with some hardware.
i find that angle interesting
tnt being collins’ old crew, but i can’t say what effect that would have on the commentary crew. it doesn’t seem intuitive to me that they wouldn’t praise him due to not wanting to show up doug. that seems to be what youre suggesting right? but i dont see how that really makes [basketball]sense.
haha
Didn’t Iggy drop 30 or 40 points when he was in this? Anyways, ET is my favorite nba player, but this game didn’t really show us much. There’s no doubt he’s talented, but he has to play the role Collins puts him in or else he won’t get more minutes. It sucks that this team is too crowded for him to have the ball in his hands to really flourish (partially Doug’s fault, seriously, why let the boss bring up the ball) , but then again, he has to show Doug he can do what is asked of him or else he won’t be playing more. ET just has to do all the dirty work that is asked of him(play good defense, rebound, don’t turn the ball over, smart shot selection) and then he will be given more responsibilities and a longer leash.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Liberty Ballers
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- C-a-C: This is probably as close to LeBron James working with John Waters as we’ll ever get
- Dwyane Wade’s hot pink pants: The kind of thing you can get away with when you drop 41
