Evan Turner and Jodie Meeks: Death Match

Turner is that good? Why? I haven’t seen anything from him to show that. I’d prefer to use him as a chip to get a big

Meeks is a bench player. I don’t undervalue what he does either as every team needs a guy who can come off the bench and knock down 3’s. And I want to resign Jodie. But Turner, with his improved play this year, has shown that he should get a shot at 30 minutes a night.
If Meeks is NOT hitting his shots, he really gives you nothing out there. I like Jodie but I feel he’s a bench guy.

I’ll defer to Collins on this one. I think the dude has deserved that much after his wizardry this season. At least, I think Collins has shown he knows what he’s doing. What makes this situation any different?

I think my position has been clear: I just don’t think Turner is that good now, and I don’t think he’s going to be very good in the future. I think he’s a below-average player right now with one great skill (rebounding). If he develops to be an average player across the board (better individual and team defense, better range on his shot, better at getting to the line, improves handle and court vision, etc.) along with continuing to be a great rebounder, he’ll be a 30+ mpg guy. I don’t think Meeks is great either, but Doug has decided that he’d rather have Meeks’ shooting over Turner’s rebounding most of the time, and since it’s working, I’m going to defer to Collins. I also don’t believe that the difference between 20 mpg and 30 mpg is really going to affect Turner’s development, so I don’t feel like his development is being hampered.

In the first 17 games of the season, Turner AVERAGED 26.5 minutes a game…a number he has hit exactly ONCE in the last 12.

Seems like the Denver game was the tipping point…ET played the entire 4th quarter and OT, while Lou played only 19 minutes – his lowest total of the season. Shortly thereafter, JTI closing games is no more, Lou reclaims his Boss-ness (LOL in the post above, Michael), and Turner becomes the backup SF with Lou and Meeks.

Sweet.

…and a sweet way to pizz away the progress that Turner and his confidence had made during the first month of the season. Nice job, Dougie.

I think Turner needs to put some kneepads on, go into Collins’ office, and do a “Meeks”.

Turner has really only lost his minutes recently. Since the Atlanta game (which he actually played very well in), ET has only played more than 20 minutes in the blowout vs. Cleveland and the Lakers game ( and only because Jodie picked up 2 fouls in all of 30 seconds). It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me. Turner has proven during his time here that he is better once he gets into a rhythm and get comfortable. Its got to be hard to find any rhythm in a 5 minute or less 2nd half stint. I blame the Clipper loss solely on Doug for that reason. Turner actually came into that game very aggressive and efficient, scoring 7 point on 3-4 shooting, even knocking down a 3 from the corning. He also provided good defense on the Mo Williams/CP3 tandem which dominated us the minute he went back to the bench. He came out with a 12 point lead and that lead had all but evaporated by halftime. It’s more of a question of why guys like Meeks and Lou and simply allowed to play through the mistakes they make ( Jodie in particular was allowed to play through his awful 5 game stretch to start the season), and Turner is yanked at the first sign of trouble

I want to see more Turner, period.

But that’s not to say that I don’t understand why Collins doesn’t play him more and opts to start the safer, low-upside Jodie Meeks. It’s hard for me to throw my hands up in the air and have a fit over it when we’re 20-9. Meeks fits our somewhat conventional system and stretches the floor hitting the three at 43% which is great. He also plays pretty decent defense, runs the floor well, and doesn’t play beyond his capabilities ( Dougie loves that).

But that doesn’t mean I agree with him either. I truly believe Turner has the most upside on the team, including Jrue. Turner has a complete game. He can create his own shot in the half court, either off the dribble or via the post and he can also create for others. He can play really good man defense and is a fantastic rebounder for his size. I really think his game can be similar to Brandon Roy’s and he can put up similar numbers in the future whenever he has a bigger role on this team. Something like 20 ppg, 5 rpg, and 5 apg are within the realms of possibility in my opinion. YEA I THINK HE CAN SCORE 20 PPG!!

So yea, it’s frustrating to me, but I get it ( at least I think I do?). Comes down to two different ways of looking at things. Go for the lower-upside win-now approach or go for the higher-upside let’s worry more about the future approach. Since we’re 20-9 and playing good basketball I just don’t think developing Turner as much as possible is one of their bigger priorities. Hopefully that changes in the near future.

move jrue to the 2

i feel like part of the gameplan is for the bench to be as strong as it is. turner can create for others, and works with the 2nd unit well in that way. with that being said i have to agree that dc is all about keeping the t.o.’s down (wow nice post tyus), it seems to be his main point outside of defense.

i think turner can blossom ala james harden with 6th man minutes if given the right opportunity, but harden also has a much greener light to do what he wants when he is on the floor. frankly i’d play him more minutes, but i would mix things up instead of a straight switch of jodie to the 2nd unit and turner to the first. who passes to jodie on the night shift? its sure as hell not going to be BOSS, and that would be his main backcourt running mate. the lineup of turner running point/point forward and jrue being the offball guard is a real entertaining one to watch, i’d like to see that happen more often.

i also believe that if turner develops into a guy who can consistently hit a corner 3 that he would fill a huge need in the offense and he would see the floor more often.

final unturner related notes: i feel a lot more comfortable with iggy taking 3s this season, but mostly because he’s doing well in catch and shoot situations. for someone who digs efficient shots like dc, i dont see why there aren’t more catch and shoot 3 opportunities being developed.

Evan should be playing ahead of Meeks. But he’s not. And it doesn’t look like that’s going to change any time soon. So trade him for Eric Gordon. If Hawes is healthy, that’s a team that can go to the conference finals.

I think that Doug sees the Sixers as having 3 good ball handlers: Iggy, Jrue, and ET. I think he’s bringing ET off the bench so that he always has at least one of them on the court, and doesn’t want to have all 3 of them on the court very much, with only one ball to handle.

Ultimately, it’s as simple as this. League-wide, Turner was being recognized this year as showing nice improvement over last year. Then, the Orlando towel incident occurred, and his minutes got cut. With reduced minutes came reduced production.

So then you get the Meeks-lovers and Turner-bashers to come out here and say “well look he’s not producing so he deserves less minutes.” BS. His minutes got cut FIRST. That’s what is so ridiculous about this whole thing. You’re using the result to justify the cause. It’s backwards. He was playing well with minutes, then his minutes got cut and his production faltered, and you say “he isn’t producing anymore, bench him.” That’s called a circular argument folks.

Yet he wasn’t nailed to the bench by his coach. They had faith in him and consequently, Lin went on to lessen his turnovers the 2nd half, play MUCH better, and sink the game winning shot. You think that guy is being given the proper opportunity to grow leaps and bounds as a player? You bet. That isn’t happening under Collins as much as naysayers would like to believe.

the latter interest

Here’s the thing- Doug has the team winning this way. He is willing to sacrifice offense for the sake of defense and ball security.

Evan is behind Andre and that hurts him most.

Doug won’t change- he likes his offense the way it is, with players passing to the open man. Evan is a much more capable player- he can create his own shot, something most Sixers cannot. He also gets lots of boards and can take a foul and make a shot.

I suppose that Evan will have to out do Jodi on the things he does well, meaning more careful with the ball, better floor spacing and the like. Teams play off of Jodi on offense, which is why the team gets stagnant when he’s out there. Evan could make almost as much of a difference as Lou Williams does. He’s a scorer. In other words if Evan was a careful and sound as Jodi, he’d be playing. It’s a no brainer. But Doug won’t sacrifice defense or ball security.