Babies Forever: The Sixers are a Young Team
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 7:01 AM PST
in Philadelphia 76ers Links
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PrintIt has been reiterated again and again that the Sixers, in a lockout-shortened season, will have an advantage because they've got CONTINUITY (buzz word) and fresh legs. With an entire starting lineup returning from last season's playoff team (for better or worse, in one spot in particular), the young 76ers core knows each other inside and out.
But just how young are they? According to Hoopism, the Sixers are only the 11th-youngest team in the league at a mean age of 26 years and 124 days old, depending on if it's a leap year. But when that's adjusted for minutes played, they drop down all the way to number four on the list at 25 years and 51 days old. While most teams have young guys playing Words With Friends on the bench and old guys on the court, the Sixers have just the opposite.
Check the cool, liney chart here. The Sixers are only one of nine teams who get younger on the court, and they have the second-steepest drop at 1.2 years younger behind the Hawks, who are the second oldest team in the league. Philly, however, clocks in just behind the Wizards, Timberwolves, and tonight's opponent, the Sacramento Kings in terms of youngest minutes-adjusted roster. While those three teams are or will be buried near the bottom of their divisions, the young and spunky Sixers are leading the Atlantic.
With Elton Brand as the only player over 30 to receive regular minutes, Doug Collins leans heavily on Jrue Holiday (21), Jodie Meeks (24), Evan Turner (23), Thaddeus Young (23), Spencer Hawes (23), Nikola Vucevic (21), and Louis Williams (25) to carry a huge load for this surprising team. Five of their top six scorers are 25 or younger. Meanwhile, Tony Battie and Andres Nocioni swap stories on the bench of what the world was like before reality television. Adorable!
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They are not babbies! Stop being so negative!!121one
With an entire starting lineup returning from last season’s playoff team (for better or worse, in one spot in particular)
I’d argue “for worse” at two positions. Brand has been pretty terrible offensively so far. Even his OREB% is the lowest in his career right now. Unlike the other trouble position he actually plays some defense though and is useful when not making shots.
He’s had a pretty terrible start of the season. If we’re saying Hawes is the best player of all time after 8 games, shouldn’t that same short-sightedness apply to how bad Elton has played?
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 7:55 AM PST up reply actions
Offensively he hasn’t been great, but he has improved in respect to total rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and turnover rate from last year. If you think he’s hurting the team when he’s on the floor, you need your eyes checked.
Player 1: 15.6 TRB%, 11.2 AST%, 3.1 BLK%, 13.8 TOV%, 48.1 TS%, 47.3 eFG%
Player 2: 14.4 TRB%, 9.1 AST%, 2.9 BLK%, 8.9 TOV%, 45.4 TS%, 43.1 eFG%
Player 1 was better at rebounding, blocking, and shooting. Player 2 had less assists but also less turnovers so I’d give him the edge in passing.
Player 1 is Spencer Hawes from last season. Player 2 is Brand from this season (with of course a small sample size).
Either Hawes wasn’t as bad as we thought last season or Brand has been terrible to start the season.
by yosoysean on Jan 10, 2012 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure where your getting your numbers from but basketball ref ( says on a per minute basis:
They are the same in rebounds and blocks, but Brand is significantly better in steals, turnovers, and personal fouls. You also must take into account Hawes is a center (and thus needs to be compared relative to an average center) and Brand is a PF (and thus must be compared to an average PF).
For me that equates to: Hawes net terrible last season. Brand net good this season.
he’s getting them from the “advanced” column from the link you cite, hence the %s in his post.
Just from watching him this year, Brand has been pretty brutal defensively. Luckily Thad has suddenly become a wizard on that end. Hopefully Brand rounds into form at some point.
Ahh I see. Not sure what games your watching but Brand looked particularly good on defense last night. As the veteran on the floor you can tell he’s a leader especially on defenisve assignments as you can often see him yelling stuff out and talking to guys after the whistle on that side of the court. I think he’s a major reason for the Sixers’ defensive success this season.
You also must take into account Hawes is a center (and thus needs to be compared relative to an average center) and Brand is a PF (and thus must be compared to an average PF).
I put both positions in the same category as far as rebounding expectations. You are just as likely to see a PF among the league leaders in rebounding as you are a center. Four of the top five in RPG last season were PFs.
Most PF’s play a significant amount of their minutes at C, so simply saying 4 of the top 5 rebounders are PF’s is misleading. I don’t have a source but I believe I’ve read an average center will pull down ~1 rebound more than an average PF per 48 minutes.
That’s a different argument. Brand has had, thus far, a bad season. There really isn’t another way around it. He’ll probably get better because it’s so early in the season and, as an older guy, he didn’t have the practice time to get up to speed. Don’t get offended by people stating facts about Elton Brand despite what you think your “eyes” are telling you.
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
It’s relevant as a response to yosoysean’s point. Comparing Hawes to Brand is not an apples to apples comparison. They play different positions. Although the difference between average C’s and PF’s aren’t dramatic, there still is a difference.
Although the difference between average C’s and PF’s aren’t dramatic, there still is a difference.
You’re right. Because of the lack of quality of centers, the average PF actually gets more rebounds than the average C.
Hawes’ performance last season was closer to the average center than Brand’s performance this season is to the average PF.
I’ve gone to great lengths to say how Hawes wasn’t as bad as we thought last season.
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
To quote you (sort of):
Hawes had a bad season. There really isn’t another way around it.
In all seriousness, relative to a league average center, Hawes has been pitiful every season of his career any way you slice it. This is why his metamorphosis so far this season has been all the more shocking.
What are you talking about and why are you misquoting me.
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Your baseless response above that Brand had a bad season thus far and it is fact simply because you said so.
He’s had a bad season because his rebounding rate, TS% and eFG% is down (in some places SIGNIFICANTLY) from Spencer Hawes’ season last year, a guy who you said is “pitiful”. WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.
Again, from Sean:
Hawes ‘10-’11: 15.6 TRB%, 11.2 AST%, 3.1 BLK%, 13.8 TOV%, 48.1 TS%, 47.3 eFG%
Brand ‘11-’12: 14.4 TRB%, 9.1 AST%, 2.9 BLK%, 8.9 TOV%, 45.4 TS%, 43.1 eFG%
My brain hurts.
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
There are many things wrong with only using these numbers to reach your conclusion, but at any rate:
13.8 vs 8.9…That’s all I have to see.
This might be the funniest thing I’ve ever read. Saying that a player is having a good season because his turnover rate is better than that of a different player the year before. Oh, and these players happen to be in the frontcourt.
You, sir, are a comedian.
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Well thank you. But I am saying a player is alot better than another player (and thus dissimilar) largely because of turnover rate (among other things). I am saying a player is having a good season because he has:
improved in respect to total rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and turnover rate from last year
He hasn’t though. He’s marginally improved in defensive rebounding, simply HAS NOT improved in turnover rate or blocks, gotten worse in the offensive glass, and the boosts in assists and steals is minimal and not exactly a focal point in his game.
His drop in eFG% and TS% is extremely steep. This isn’t debatable. He’s having a bad year so far. What’s equally frustrating about what you’re saying is that A) you’re wrong, and B) it doesn’t matter because it’s ONLY 8 GAMES INTO THE SEASON.
For the sake of my health and that of those around me, I’m going to stop responding to this.
by Michael Levin on Jan 10, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
It probably kills the players but to be honest with you, I love having games seemingly every night. I actually think I’d rather see the regular season start on Christmas and be more compressed. Nothing bums me out when the Sixers “only” play once or twice a week. Obviously that would never happen for a variety of reasons but with the good start, this is friggin awesome having 4 games in 5 days! Almost like baseball.
Its crazy how much attention this team is getting compared to years past. If only we can get some fans in the stands.
xEgan on Twitter
It's still early.
If they come winning, the fans will come.
by BrandonB on Jan 10, 2012 9:33 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
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