Jrue Holiday or Brandon Jennings?

by Michael Levin on Sep 21, 2011 6:09 AM PDT in Read and React

Flash versus substance may be oversimplifying this, but between Brandon Jennings and Jrue Holiday, it's pretty clear which player gets which tag. A recent SB Nation future ranking has Jrue as #53 while Jennings is way up at #37. As young point guards, they couldn't be any less similar. Who's the better player now? Who would you rather have in five years? Can either guy become a franchise point guard or will 2nd or 3rd option be their ceilings? Hit the jump for the vote.

Ever since Jennings' 55-point game before he sprouted his third pube, he's been anointed The Next Whatever, but the production hasn't matched the hype. Bucks fans are just happy he's not Tyronn Lue or Luke Ridnour, but expecting him to carry the entire team to any sort of playoff race at this point (a la Iverson) is not a possibility.

Jrue, meanwhile, has carved himself a little two-year career of being the underrated guy insiders get excited about. He's the indie band your friends only know that one half-decent song from, but he's actually got a few great albums in his back pocket and just seems one song away from truly breaking out. Only problem is, once he does break out, people will talk about how underrated he is, thus making him entirely too overrated. Psychologists call it the Andre Miller Syndrome. He still hasn't been as good defensively as we hoped, but the consistent jumper has been a surprise.

This would seem to be the that Jrue puts on the Big C (Captain, not Linney) and runs the team, but without a season it remains to be seen how his game progresses. Jennings gets more national love, but with poor shot selection, a ballhog reputation and sub-Iverson defense, can he ever be anything more than a Ricky Davis-esque high volume scorer on bad teams? Both guys could surely do with some better supporting options - we'll see if they get them.

Even though Jrue's our boy, would the unbiased version of us swap him for Jennings right now? I'm saying no, but there's a strong contingent of people - probably the majority - who would do it in a heartbeat. What say you?

Poll

Pick your point guard.

Holiday

332 votes

Jennings

42 votes

374 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 40 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

Bucks fans are just happy he’s not Tyronn Lue or Luke Ridnour

:( since I’m bored I took a picture with one of Luke’s former teammates when I was younger(forget how old think it was around the time he got drafted) that was a lottery pick can you guess which one?

I would take The Jruth but you already knew that

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by The Legend on Sep 21, 2011 7:06 AM PDT reply actions

Here is the comparison through two seasons for both of them.

http://bkref.com/tiny/iI4i9

Jennings gives you several more points but he does it at the expense of a much poorer FG percentage.

I would go with Holiday mainly out of bias but would be okay with either. I think both players will improve but I think they will have comparable stats over their career, as they do now.

The Mikan Drill

by JoshuaR on Sep 21, 2011 7:31 AM PDT reply actions

Forgot to attach the poll! It’s there now so exercise your God-given right to vote on Liberty Ballers. Pretty sure that’s one of the ten or so commandments.

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by Michael Levin on Sep 21, 2011 8:17 AM PDT reply actions

thou shalt not vote for brandon jennings.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 21, 2011 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions

A recent SB Nation future ranking has Jrue as #53 while Jennings is way up at #37

This is the same ranking that has Carmelo at #18 because he’s not in the top 20 now, but he’s going to be much better at age 31. No, I’m not kidding. That’s actually what it said.

I’m not sure if these rankings are supposed to be a joke, but if they’re not then I lost a lot of respect for the people making them.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 21, 2011 8:20 AM PDT reply actions

From the parts I read, it seemed to be about 50/50% joke/serious. It was the type of piece I didn’t care for though, so I can’t say I read much of it.

The Mikan Drill

by JoshuaR on Sep 23, 2011 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Take Jrue for his size alone

but i see BJ with some 50 point games in the future…

by johnshmidt on Sep 21, 2011 11:14 AM PDT reply actions

and that can only mean he’s much better

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 21, 2011 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions

I think people are a bit harsh on Jennings, and he is not a completely selfish gunner live our current de facto MVP (Lou.) But I still give Jrue the edge for his all-around game. He will be underrated nationally just like Iguodala is locally :)

by tk76 on Sep 21, 2011 12:58 PM PDT reply actions

As young point guards, they couldn’t be any less similar

Are they really THAT dissimilar ? They’re both pick and roll point guards, who are +’s defensively, good at running a team, good outside shooters, but below average finishing at the rim and drawing contact.

Their demeanor’s are more dissimilar than their games.

Derek Bodner

SBN Philly || LibertyBallers || DraftExpress
@derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com

by Derek Bodner on Sep 21, 2011 1:19 PM PDT reply actions

BTW, I think Jrue’s better (albeit only slightly) at all those facets, I just don’t think their actual strengths/weaknesses are that different.

Derek Bodner

SBN Philly || LibertyBallers || DraftExpress
@derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com

by Derek Bodner on Sep 21, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Interesting. I think of most point guards these days as P&R guys so that doesn’t enter into my thought process too much. And though Jrue has had a better supporting cast, I still think BJ is more of a 1-on-1 player that tries to put the team on his back more. Jrue can blend into an offense and I don’t think that, for better or worse, Jennings could take a back seat like that.

There are more similarities than I thought (demeanor aside), but I’d still put them on different ends of the spectrum for point guards.

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by Michael Levin on Sep 21, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Only Greg Jennings can put the team on his back :)

"Great, I got that "excited/scared" feeling. Like 98% excited, 2% scared. Or maybe it's more - It could be two - it could be 98% scared, 2% excited but that's what makes it so intense."

-Armageddon

by flyrman57 on Sep 23, 2011 11:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

The bucks were good defensively last year, but they had the worst offense in the league. So when you say he’s good at running a team, shouldn’t Jennings at least take some of the blame for that?

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 21, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Meh. The Sixers were a good defensive team in the early ‘00s – does that make Iverson a good defender? I don’t think you can go either way based on one player. Rare exceptions there are, but usually as a big man in the middle.

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by Michael Levin on Sep 22, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions

I wasnt going either way. I said “some”. Of course there are other factors involved, but in this case jennings is a pg and i believe most of the offense is going through him. He could be making the right plays but his teammates are too inept to execute or is partly to.blame for the offensive woes. I havent watched enough of the bucks to know. Just speculating.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 22, 2011 11:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions

Perhaps. That team doesn’t have a whole lot of offensive talent, though, so I have a hard time pinning that on him. I see your point, though.

Derek Bodner

SBN Philly || LibertyBallers || DraftExpress
@derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com

by Derek Bodner on Sep 22, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions

I say Jrue, but if I were a Buck’s fan I would probably say Jennings. To tell you the truth, I’ve only watched two Bucks games last year and both of them were against the Sixers. Both times I thought Jrue won the match up.

But,
Jennings is a bad ass and Jrue is probably someone I wouldn’t mind if he was dating my daughter.

by The Pied Piper on Sep 22, 2011 12:57 PM PDT reply actions

In a playoff series, I see Jrue as the better player for various matchups if he’s used smartly by the coach. Jennings I see as a more explosive scorer. But undersized scoring guards tend to loose value relatively early in their careers. There are exceptions, of course. But I think Jrue has the higher ceiling. I don’t see either becoming dominant star ballers. But I can see Jrue becoming a real winner. I haven’t seen Jennings play much, but the little I have, that was my perception.

by wannabgm on Sep 23, 2011 6:36 AM PDT reply actions

I would take Jrue.

My thoughts on his ceiling is that Jrue reminds me of the type of player who made up the core of the Pistons dynasty in the early and mid 2000s. What I mean is that there wasn’t really a “superstar” on those teams, there were a number of good or really good players who work together perfectly. I think Jrue can be that type of guy, along with Turner if he progresses this year.

"Great, I got that "excited/scared" feeling. Like 98% excited, 2% scared. Or maybe it's more - It could be two - it could be 98% scared, 2% excited but that's what makes it so intense."

-Armageddon

by flyrman57 on Sep 23, 2011 10:09 AM PDT via mobile reply actions

Jrue. Hands down. Jennings isn’t a bad player but I think he’s a little overrated.

by jrb5094 on Sep 23, 2011 10:40 AM PDT via mobile reply actions

I'll take Jrue

Because his abilities to raise the roof are unmatched in this league.

formerly jdcvr6

"When I'm dead and buried, and my time here has passed. I want them to bury me upside down, so my critics can kiss my ass." - Bob Knight

by James_C on Sep 24, 2011 11:58 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

Speaking as my point guard..I would take Jrue.

Jennings is more like a small 2 guard. Jrue has more PG qualities. Jennings will have better scoring numbers.

by senelcoolidge on Sep 24, 2011 8:16 PM PDT reply actions

I would take Jrue as well, I think that Jennings’s “scoring” is over rated even here among Liberty Ballers. We act as if the guy’s Stephen Curry(Note, he’s not).

Jrue’s stats(and his scoring): http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3995/jrue-holiday

Jennings’s stats(and his inflated scoring): http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3997/brandon-jennings

If Brandon Jennings weren’t shooting 80% from the Charity Stripe, it’s likely that Jrue’s and Brandon’s scoring numbers would be the same. Even then, Jrue is the vastly superior scorer(read: better shot selection).

Note that this was Brandon’s second NBA season and while by no means obviously this is the “end” of his growth but we can somewhat form a picture. It’s not Allen Iverson or Stephon Marbury. It’s Louis Williams.

Small guard, not really a shooter, terrible shot selection and an inability to make plays for others.

This, his(possible) 3rd season will tell the tale. If it follows the norm of his rookie and sophomore years, it’s no longer a circumstantial thing, it’s a trend.

Jrue Holiday at 6’4 is as noted the taller guard, and this is reflected in his rebounding abilities. I like his ability to stretch the floor and hopefully we see that for a full 82 games next season(if there is one or if there’s a full 82). I love his defensive potential and I feel like we’ll see the Rookie Jrue if we ever get a defensive big worth a damn.

You know, a banger. An Etan Thomas. What frustrates me the most is Doug Collins in his introduction press conference last year(and much of the off-season) talked about the Orlando Magic and Rashard Lewis.

Lewis is an actual jump shooting big man. Vuvecic and Hawes are what I would term “sub-jump shooting bigs”. They’ll hit a jumper once and a while but if they’re our main options for spreading the floor, we won’t spread the floor. The Miami Heat proved that in the playoff series.

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 24, 2011 9:35 PM PDT reply actions

I would take Jrue as well, I think that Jennings’s "scoring" is over rated even here among Liberty Ballers. We act as if the guy’s Stephen Curry(Note, he’s not).

Haha what? Where did that come from?

"Miami can’t beat Chicago, why? Because Chicago has everything Miami has and more.... I’ll grant you Wade/James stealing a game, or maybe two. But we’re seeing an OKC/CHI finals, and that’s a finals everyone will tune in for." - LeQuan Glover

by yosoysean on Sep 24, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions

While I’m at it, I’ll tackle this.

If Brandon Jennings weren’t shooting 80% from the Charity Stripe, it’s likely that Jrue’s and Brandon’s scoring numbers would be the same. Even then, Jrue is the vastly superior scorer(read: better shot selection).

Note that this was Brandon’s second NBA season and while by no means obviously this is the "end" of his growth but we can somewhat form a picture. It’s not Allen Iverson…

Small guard, not really a shooter, terrible shot selection and an inability to make plays for others.

Highly hypocritical there. Iverson’s shot selection was horrific. He had a career 42.5% shooting percentage (and it was even lower during his prime). What made him such a great scorer was that he could get a shot off whenever he wanted and got to the free throw line a whole lot. Jennings definitely isn’t at Iverson’s level but he does have a similar skill set. But for some reason (nostalgia? homerism?) this ability is ok for one player to have but not the other.

I do like Jrue more but I think you are severely underrating Jennings’ abilities while I already know how much you overrate Jrue’s current abilities.

by yosoysean on Sep 24, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions

I wouldn’t look too much into it anymore. He was pretty much exposed as a troll the other day on TGP.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 25, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Link?

I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, there will be no trade for Monta!

by dweebowitz on Sep 26, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions

here

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 26, 2011 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Guess we’re not the only ones who deal with LG lol

by jrb5094 on Sep 28, 2011 5:18 AM PDT up reply actions

It’s “okay” for Iverson to have it because Iverson was, as you noted actually effective with it. There are alot of small guards who watched the guy play, try to intimate them when in fact they don’t have the skillsets to do the things he did(and honestly, few do).

I don’t overrate Jrue’s current abilities, this roster is complete trash in comparison to last year’s. I’m of the firm belief that had we did nothing and just hired Doug Collins 50 wins was well within the realm of possibility.

Obviously, 50 wins isn’t what I want to max out at I want to win. But management has clearly made all indicators clear that they don’t want to rebuild. Fans at Libertyballers have also made it clear.

To look at Spencer Hawes, Nikola Vucevic and Craig Brackins and Jodie Meeks is….UGH, We’ve got a bunch of 8th-10th men and we’re supposed tro be excited about em?

Among the four, the one with the highest upside is Jodie but that upside is pretty much to stay in his current role: As sixth man, solid shooter from the perimeter ALA Raja Bell.

In my mind, we have no youth sans for Jrue-Turner, our veterans combine for 28 million(You know who I’m talking about) and we’re not gonna trade them. And even if we do, their inflated salaries means we won’t get much in return.

Which in the minds of Libertyballers, constitutes rape! Because like Stefanski/King/etc. The majority of you guys(no offense) overrates this crappy roster!

Particularly, you overrate the crappy part of it while not looking at the little good in it(IE:Jrue Holiday).

Get Jrue a defensive big, and his defense will be much improved. Get him a wing that can actually shoot and the offense will be much improved.
I

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 28, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions

So if I understand correctly, everyone on libertyballers consists of a giant groupthink except for you, because you know better than everyone on here, and we underrate Jrue Holiday for some reason that probably has to do with overrating Andre Iguodala.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 29, 2011 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions

More or less, when it comes to this organization no one on this forum is honestly that angry about the pathetic state of the roster( as a matter of fact, many of the posters don’t see the roster state as pathetic.). Dweebz in particular tried to make the argument that because Jrue’s APG numbers were average(and some other statistics that I can’t remember) that he himself(Jrue) was average.

Yeah? Well what were the two biggest problems for the Sixers? Inside scoring and perimeter scoring(of any kind! Shooting or slashing). Tell me, without inside production or perimeter offense where is Jrue magically supposed to get these assists?

That doesn’t make Jrue any less of a slasher(one of the few on this roster.), it doesn’t make him any less of a shooter(one of the few on this roster) and it doesn’t make him any less of a great passing point guard. If anything, it makes Jrue that much more valuable that he can put up 15/5 on 45% shooting given the crap that he has around him. His best SG is a bench sparkplug!(Meeks)

And I love Meeks, but I can see the realism in where he’ll probably be/should be to be at his most effective.

On the flipside, Iguodala gives you your 15/5/5/1-2 SPG. The majority find it amazing that he can be average(note: average) at so many categories at once! They call this versatility, they call it jack of all trades.

Want to know what wins championships? The 5 most effective and cohesive players on the court. Not the five best fantasy guys. Iguodala gets that 15/5(APG) with a lot more effort than Jrue Holiday. Because Iguodala is not a slasher, he is not a shooter.

Iguodala unlike Holiday is not a wingman whatsoever. And here, is the big elephant in the room. It’s okay if he’s not a shooter, he could at least be a Corey Maggette. But he’s not an overly powering forward, nor is he a quick wing. He’s just again…average. Iguodala is something of a mix of a Point Guard(APG) and a Power Forward(RPG) But shooting guard or small forward(wing man) he is not.

Unfortunately, there is a need for a wing man in the NBA. Not just to shut them down, but to actually play the position semi-decently without needing trips to the free throw line or 2-3 fast break baskets a contest(roughly 4-to-6 points of production).

This isn’t to say Iguodala sucks, he doesn’t. He sucks in comparison to the position he’s slotted to play and the salary that he receives. No, he’s not making Joe Johnson/Rudy Gay money. But the 13.5 million he is making, indicates a wing man that can play in the half court for the Philadelphia 76ers.

IMO, Iguodala should be making 5 million less, or 8 million. The 5 million overpayment of Iguodala, the 6 million of Nocioni sitting on the bench(Grand total: 11 million). We could’ve added that fourth piece to Holiday-Brand-Iguodala and maybe seriously contended(say an Eric Gordan)

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 30, 2011 4:15 AM PDT up reply actions

On the flipside, Iguodala gives you your 15/5/5/1-2 SPG. The majority find it amazing that he can be average(note: average) at so many categories at once! They call this versatility, they call it jack of all trades.

Hahaha! And so how does this comment (or basically anything else you said) not indicate that you are a troll?

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 30, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions

I found another goodie!

but to actually play the position semi-decently without needing trips to the free throw line or 2-3 fast break baskets a contest(roughly 4-to-6 points of production).

So essentially what you are saying is that having the skill to draw fouls is a bad thing?
Trolololol!

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 30, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions