Make a choice Sixers fans

by einman77 on Jun 8, 2011 7:42 PM PDT

Some of you may know that I'm a Blazers fan having lived in Portland for a few years and am going to go to grad school there come August, eventually making it my home. But I grew up in Philly, and with the news of the team possibly being sold, it prompted me to come over and see how things are around these parts. Turns out you all seem to be completely wrapped up in getting rid of Andre Igoudala, but at the same time no one likes the options that are out there. As an outsider, here's my take on your situation:

I honestly think you have to take one or the other between Kaman or Ellis as those are pretty much the opitomy of your best options. That is to take a salary dump or try and fix a piece that isn't working in their current situation. It seems this board is hung up on Ellis's points per 100 possesions stat. I tend think that he was playing Nellie ball, and played over 90% of every game he was in during the season, save the last 2 games against teams who were locked into thier playoff spots and thus playing only thier scrubs. Honestly that stat means f*all to me due to the fact that the context of that comparison is so warped. I mean a guard shooting 47% for his career is really good, and as an outsider looking in, the sixers could use someone who fills up the bucket while the emphasis on defense is not quite as high due to Holiday and Turner's ability in those ares. But, if Ellis doesn't make you happy (which I don't give a crap if it does or not) then you have to take a salary dump because no one is giving up a solid building block for a guy who doesn't even fit with your team anymore.

The ideal would be a decent big in return, but they don't grow on trees. If a team has a big that they are paying $12M a year for and it's working out, they aren't going to let go of him. Let's face it, There are plenty of decent 3 spots out there that can be had. If someone is so inclined they could make a play for Wallace (Batum is behind him, which is kind of like a lesser version of your Iggy-Turner dilema) or even make a play at Batum if they want to go younger. You want Aldridge? Good luck with that offer. You'd pretty much have to thown in Holiday just to make the Blazers even listen to you. The Wolves would part with thier #2 pick for the right price, who will most likely be Derrick Williams, ANOTHER SMALL FORWARD. All of those options are more affordable than Iggy. I'm sure there are more that I'm missing (I heard Gay could be had as well, but I honestly don't know how much truth is in that either). Iggy is the lowest hanging fruit at this point, but not by very much. There just aren't many teams who are overloaded with game changers at the 4 or 5. I do think AI2 is a good player, but at some point you have to either roll the dice someone with some warts or take an expiring and try and gamble in the free agent market.

Personally I think Ellis would be a good fit. You would get someone who has to be accounted for on the offensive end. If Collins pulled the trigger I would have to believe he could think he has a chance of reigning the guy in a little and making him play within the system. I do think he would be likely to leave in 2013 as $11M isn't quite what he could get in the market that will be out there, where everyone is opening up thier books for Howard, Paul and Williams. Teams that miss will gladly shell out some buck to save face and Ellis could be taughted as a "next best thing" type of deal. If it's not him then, Captain Ka(ve)man would represent an ideal expiring contract for the Sixers. He fills an immediate need and comes off the books next summer. If you could get thier 2012 1st then that might be something to talk about, but with the age of that team I'm not sure they are going to give up thier first rounder 2 years in a row.

Anyway, the names could change in regards to the deal, but the idea will probably be the same. After shopping Iggy for a year, it seem to me that something along one of these lines is the best you can hope for. So what's it going to be?

Poll

Which would you like to see in return for Iggy:

Kaman type deal (expiring contract)

7 votes

Ellis type deal (another piece that could potentially boom or bust)

15 votes

Keep Iggy (and hope Turner develops fine anyway)

9 votes

I don't buy your reasoning. Despite the realitiy of the situation, I still think we can get the perfect piece for Iggy if we wait long enough. (I'm an idiot)

12 votes

43 votes | Poll has closed

Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.

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Comments

You can’t trade your first rounder two years in a row.

I have to disagree with your take. I really don’t understand the rush in trading Iguodala. There are many holes on this roster. We don’t yet know if Turner and Iguodala can’t fit together. Those who say they can’t are saying so because they are too impatient to see how Turner will develop. Speaking of impatience, fans tend to be impatient and want some type of immediate change to happen. If the only deals available are Ellis or Kaman, I say wait. Iguodala’s contract will look more appealing with only two years left, and if he comes back fully healthy and still in his prime, his stock could rise.
I don’t think Ellis will be a good fit on this team. His lack of defense and lou williams’-esque shooting style would kill this team. Holiday, who needs the ball in his hands, would be denied possessions by a guy with a ridiculously high usage rate for the amount he produces.
So in conclusion, I say wait. We’re not winning a championship next year or the year after. If the right trade comes up, trade him. If not, wait and make a smart decision.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 8, 2011 8:26 PM PDT reply actions

Clippers own two firsts next season so I’m pretty sure they can.

"Miami can’t beat Chicago, why? Because Chicago has everything Miami has and more.... I’ll grant you Wade/James stealing a game, or maybe two. But we’re seeing an OKC/CHI finals, and that’s a finals everyone will tune in for." - LeQuan Glover

by yosoysean on Jun 8, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions

Nevermind. They don’t down their own pick.

I’m pretty sure they can make the trade after the draft time though.

by yosoysean on Jun 8, 2011 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions

I can see your point

I am not sure that trading him would be the best idea, though there seems to be some urgency on this issue from both the fans and the front office. I can agree with you that it might be better if you do keep him until the right situation presents itself, but I don’t think that will happen.

As for comparing Ellis to Williams, I just think it’s silly. I don’t see it at all, at least from what I’ve seen. Maybe because Ellis is somewhat of a tweener who plays offense much better than D? While that may be the case, thier offensive games are on different levels entirely. We play the Warriors a lot, and I would certainly like to have Ellis on the Blazers, though with McMillain in charge that will never happen.

"This is the most popular sport in America blaming its feet for insolence and cutting them off with a chainsaw to show them who's the boss in this arrangement. When it bleeds out, it will admit no regrets because those who paint themselves into corners forget that a path out ever existed."-Spencer Hall, The NFL Lockout and Taking Sides in The League's Labor Dispute

by einman77 on Jun 8, 2011 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=ellismo01&y1=2011&p2=willilo02&y2=2011

Look at their per 36 minute comparison – shockingly similar production with the exception of FG%. Looking at their advanced stats, you’ll see that Lou has the edge in win share per 48, everyone’s beloved PER stat and offensive/defensive ratings. The difference is, GS is dumb enough to play Ellis a lot more minutes. Hence: they are a losing team.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 8, 2011 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions

The stats are fairly comparable, sure, omitting that 4.5% difference in field goal percentage of course. But I’m not sure that it’s so easy as plugging the numbers when you’re talking about a Warriors player vs someone on a normal paced team. If you watch Ellis play, you can definately see a guy who can create decent shots for him and his teammates, finish well and is very difficult to defend. And does it with good accuracy fairly consistently. I don’t think you can say the same thing about Lou. You have to factor in that Don Nelson ran that offense so they are told to jack up shots and get thier possesion and shots total way up. He’s worse than Di’Antonio with that style of play.

I don’t know how that affects the stats on your fun little site there. I also can’t say for sure that Ellis would be the answer, but it is difficult to tell exactly how good he can be. If he can’t really change his ways, as in the amount he holds on to the ball and tries to run the offense himself, then no, he’s not worth the trouble. But he is a solid offensive threat, much more than Lou Will. Though it is more of a subjective assesment (which I know you like to discredit on premise alone) aside from the shooting percentage, you can just see it when the guy is on the floor. If scouting teams consisted entirely of computer programs then this argument wouldn’t be necessary, but I honestly think there’s more to Ellis than you’re giving him credit for.

by einman77 on Jun 8, 2011 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions

I disagree with your subjective assessment that I discredit on premise alone. I can see where you’re coming from based on observation. If he’s scoring a lot of points, and at times, carrying the team with his unique scoring ability, there is something there. I’m not sure how much you watch of Lou Will, but he, at times, does the same for the sixers. He can either kill them by jacking up horrible shots early in the shot clock, but at other times, when no one else is scoring, he finds a way.

The difference is, Lou gets to the line more often in less available minutes. In my book, that’s more valuable. Ellis shoots at a higher percentage, and his eFG is also higher, which give him more of a reason to be a starter. However, scouting teams, as you’ve mentioned, would also notice that with the exception of Ellis’ one stud year, he hasn’t helped his team win. The win shares per 48 I provided only provides evidence to that notion. Furthermore, there are few systems where I think Ellis would be effective in the NBA, and the sixers are not one of them. With his porous defense, you would need a strong front court. We have Hawes and an aging Brand.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 9, 2011 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions

That's fair

I honestly don’t watch Lou Will that much. If he has those strengths along with the sloppy play that everyone seems to focus on, then Ellis likely wouldn’t be that much of an upgrade. I still think that there is more to Ellis’s game than what he’s been dealt in the bay area and that he could be a quality piece in the right situation, but you seem pretty sure that he won’t be and that even if he could that this situation is not right. I respect that.

by einman77 on Jun 9, 2011 2:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Einman: Please don’t try too hard, around these parks Andre Iguodala is a first-ballot hall of famer that’s clearly unappreciated! We have a 20 yr old PG Stud, a near dbl-dbl PF and a 6th man spark plug off the bench. Not enough to win a title, but it’s not far off from Pippen’s bulls either. Nevertheless, this “core” has struggled to make it to .500

You’d THINK, it might have something to do with the SF that provides close to nothing on the offensive end in the half-court.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 8, 2011 10:30 PM PDT reply actions

To say that you are disillusioned would be a gross understatement.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 8, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I don’t think Iggy is the greatest thing since sliced bread

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 8, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions

neither does anyone else on this sight. Do you actually read peoples’ comments while sober?

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 8, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions

*site

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 8, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Yes I do, look at every freaking trade thread or every time I point out Iggy’s shortcomings! We’re wacko, crazy, retarded! We so undervalue him! Don’t you see that beautiful 14/6/6, Iguodala’s great! It’s not his fault that we’re perpetually mediocre.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 8, 2011 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions

And yet, as I ask if you if you are reading my comments while sober, you claim you are and continue to 1.) miss my point 2.) go off on the same misinformed ramble you’ve reiterated countless times 3.) further prove your inability to comprehend elementary logic.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 8, 2011 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions

I usually don't even read his original comments

But the firestorms he starts are fun to watch.

by einman77 on Jun 8, 2011 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I used to think he was a troll. Now I’m more so leaning on the idea that it’s a combination of a dark basement, lead-based paint chips, and lots and lots of toxic glue.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 9, 2011 12:57 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

Seriously, there has to be something along those lines. I have never come across someone who is so hardheaded, stubborn and. . .blank? Every day, he makes the same comments, then, inevitably, 6 people explain to him how he’s wrong. The next day, the cycle starts again.

Lequan, are you a current, or former, coke addict? Your behavior is VERY indicative of someone whose frontal lobe has severely deteriorated; their minds go in perpetual loops and they continually rehash the same thoughts over and over regardless of whether previous responses to them brought the ideas to a conclusion.

by The Crooked Man on Jun 9, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions

No, I’ve done no drugs or anything. You can either choose to accept reality or deny it, Iguodala is not in any facet of the game(at least one important for a wing man) great.

Where do you hear a GM say “We’ve got to get a playmaking SF. That’s what we need to be an elite team”. Closest is Tayshaun Prince

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=iguodan01&y1=2010&p2=princta01&y2=2009

Thing with Prince is, Dumars didn’t treat Prince as THE GUY. He made a move for a Rip Hamilton, he made a move for a Billups.

Prince was a part of the team, not it’s whole. Here, Iguodala was made to be the TEAM. And quite frankly, many fans here still see him that way. . Iguodala’s great! Fans undervalue him so much! We’re getting butt-raped!

I wonder, what IS equal value for Andre Iguodala? There have been Scouts, not me. NBA Scouts who get paid a couple hundred grand a year who call Iguodala a starter. But never an all-star, and they’ve all concurred he’s overpaid by 5-7 million!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harpero01.html

Here’s an Iguodala comparison, Harper made the playoffs all four times as a 20 PPG player. 0-4 in the first round. Is it because his team-mates sucked? Actually, his Cavs and Clippers teams weren’t that bad.

Harper was highly TO prone and had no jump shot(sound familar?), though he was a pretty good slasher to make up for it it looks like.

Harper finally won his title, as a role player off the bench for the Chicago Bulls

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harpede01.html

Here, a SF in a two guard’s body, Much in the way of Iguodala/Ron, Derek had no jumper and was equally hampered with turnovers. Once again, limited success. Once, with a star-studded Mavericks squad and the other in a roleplayer situation with the Knicks.

You heard Doug Collins name Bobby Jones.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonesbo01.html

I’m sure Doug’s not doing Coke, nor are those scouts. Nor is NBA history, you need to put these wings in certain conditions to get the most out of them or the most you will get otherwise is mediocrity.

These poor shooting/turnover prone F’s come every decade, this year’s version is UCLA’S Tyler Honeycutt.

But sure, I’m taking in a lot of lead, toxic glue and coke

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions

I never mentioned coke, but sure, why not. It’s not like it could kill brain cells that don’t exist.

I’m really not sure why you’re linking to a website that provides information you clearly don’t understand (and even admitted to not understanding).

Finally….

NBA Scouts who get paid a couple hundred grand a year who call Iguodala a starter. But never an all-star, and they’ve all concurred he’s overpaid by 5-7 million!

I want you to name everyone of these basketball scouts and site where you got the information that states he’s overpaid. You made the claim that everyone of them said he’s overpaid, now back it up. I know you won’t, because you’re a fraud.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 9, 2011 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Iguodala is not in any facet of the game(at least one important for a wing man) great.

On what planet is defense not important for wings? Take a look at the top ten scorers in the league last year, and Iggy would have to guard SEVEN of them. There’s a reason that the league has put up with Ron Artest’s insanity for so long, and that is because he is an incredibly good defender who happens to be. . .A WING MAN!

While I agree that Iggy is not the type of player that should be the centerpiece of a team, and agree with some of your Tayshaun Prince analogy, you seem to think that players like Corey Maggette are better than him because they can score 20 ppg, and that’s just stupid. Also, I once again feel the need to point out that Iggy IS NOT TURNOVER PRONE and has a 3:1 assist to turnover ratio. That is a FACT, and no matter how many times you say otherwise, you are still WRONG.

And please, do what jefu asked and post the quotes from scouts and GM’s saying that he’s overpaid 5-7 (seriously, you think he’s worth an equal amount as the Boss?! 12-7=5.) In an ideal world, on an ideal team, Iggy would probably make 4 million less than he does now (8ish) and be the third highest paid player on the team, but this is the real world, where Thad will probably get that much. Do you think Iggy is worth more than Thad?

by The Crooked Man on Jun 9, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Actually, you can argue Iguodala is good enough to be a starter on a contender (lequan would disagree because he smokes crack). Of all the contending teams right now, I believe Iguodala would be the third highest paid player on said team.

Lequan won’t own up to my challenge because he’s consciously aware that he makes stuff up and is too much of a fake to support his claims.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 9, 2011 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Actually, for the past two years straight a scout has come out and said it. I don’t wanna go through the archives for a post. But sometime during this past season, a scout talked about Iguodala and raved about his intangibles. But said that Iguodala was overpaid, and is a starting F at best. Tom Moore was the one that reported that sometime into the season.

Then last season, a scout lamblasted the Sixers lack of intensity in practice during the EJ era and concurred on Iguodala’s lack of a complete game.

You bring up Artest, Artest can actually attack the post….Iguodala? I mean, seriously. We’re down to the BASICS of basics for offense for a wing and Iguodala doesn’t have that skill set.

Iguodala’s defense and rebounding is WHAT makes him, as is his athleticism. To most people, that’s a one trick pony.

Note: Iguodala’s making 13.5 million this year(a 5-7 reduction would make it an 8 to 6 million dollar contract). And do I think he’s in that Lou Williams range?

Yes, like Lou he does ONE thing and ONE thing only extremely well. But then sucks in every other facet of the game and once upon a time that was called average. But I missed something and Iguodala’s a star.

I’d like to believe Thad could be a starter at 3(as this was Collins’s hope as well) but Thad can’t take that position as his own until his handles improve as well as his jump shot and his lateral quickness on the defensive end.

Even if we had the depth to add Hawes and Meeks to the bench. We had surely better hope the starting C/SG produce enough offense to elevate this team.

That’s right, this “core’s” faith lies in Evan Turner. The kid’s pretty much the only hope we have of making this mismash of mediocrities actually work.

It would be so much better if management/fans came to the realization that they’re holding a negative stock that makes them lose money.

I even gave you NBA history itself and you brushed it aside. You’re like a drunken gambler that shouldn’t be allowed to gamble anymore because you’ve already lost millions.

Whose to say, if the present situation continues why would Jrue Holiday want to re-sign here one day? He doesn’t have a core built around him for the future, never mind the present. Same thing with Turner if he thrives.

Ideally Brand would be paid 6-7 million less too, but then if we didn’t acquire the Brackins, Nocioni’s of the world and if we didn’t sign Iguodala to that massive extension. We might be in a position to improve the team today.

But even you arrogant drunken gamblers must realize our assets are slim. We can’t improve our situation because we over-rate pretty much everyone on our roster.

And it sickens me, Philadelphia Management is probably the easiest one to put your mediocre players signed to bad contracts on.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions

LeQuan, when you dropped that bit of knowledge on us, were actually talking about Ron Harper, or Derek Harper, who you linked to?

by The Crooked Man on Jun 9, 2011 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions

I linked to both Ron and Derek and Bobby Jones as examples of wing men who “did it all”, but ultimately weren’t successful until very late in their careers or in Derek’s case, he was built around a more complete Mavericks and then Knicks team..

When I say TO prone, it’s safe to say they average more AST than TO. But that doesn’t make their typical 2.5-to at worst 4 TPG a positive thing.

One of the reasons we made the playoffs was that Iguodala lowered his TO’S considerably. That can be given credit to Coach Collins.

Hawes and Meeks would make good bench players. But Hawes will probably make something like the MLE and Meeks similarly(right now, he’s on his rookie contract), Lou himself is at the 5 million range.

So if we’ve got good bench players signed at the right dollars, arguably, we should be in position.

Alas, what is Nocioni doing in a Sixers uniform? And Brand is overpaid. But Iguodala has no right making 10 Million as a BASE for his contract. If it is a base, it’s a base with no increases.

No one was really contacting Iguodala in the summer of ’08, mostly because the 76ers were bidding against themselves.

Billy King actually held firm against Iguodala’s contract demands. And that says it all.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions

I thought you were having Harper confusion, but I somehow missed the Ron link. Sorry about being a smart a$$, in that case, that’s entirely on me.

Anyway, I don’t remember those guys well enough to know if they were anywhere close to as good as Iggy on the defensive end. I do agree with the sentiment behind your analogy, though; I also think that those types of players can be critical on championship teams, but aren’t franchise cornerstones. Which, by the way, is why I also had a huge problem with the Sixers seemingly bidding against themselves when they extended Iggy’s contract (at least that’s how the media portrayed it at the time.)

However, since those “once in a decade” type of versatile wings can take a team that’s close over the top, doesn’t that mean that they’re pretty valuable? I think a lot of people on this board don’t vehemently oppose EVERYTHING that you say, such as the points that I’ve highlighted here, but when you say that he’s worth about the same as Lou Williams because he’s “only good at one thing,” it completely invalidates everything else that you say. It’s especially annoying when, by your own posts, it’s clear that you do actually realize that he’s not “only good at one thing,” and really, only BAD at one thing: efficiently scoring in the half court as the go to guy. I know that you recognize this because you’ve talked about how perfect he would be on the Thunder, and compare him to guys who could “do it all.”

by The Crooked Man on Jun 9, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Not even as the go-to-guy. Anyone would argue that Maggette at best is a second-third option type of guy. Just as Brand is(at this stage of his career).

What’s the difference between Brand/Maggette and Iguodala? Well, Brand and Maggette can at least create their own shots. Iguodala, really can’t.’

So to call Iguodala an option is deceptive, I feel like he’s a non-option really. Or as I alluded to in some other posts, I don’t feel Iguodala has improved one ioatta since his rookie year. We just increased his usage and gave him a bigger contract.

I loved Iguodala as a rookie, highflying, explosive, defensive and can rebound. But his salary, usage and overall the support that he gets, suggests he’s bigger than he actually is.

I therefore hold him to that standard and to me, he’s well short. He’s not our Russell Westbrook or our Jason Terry or even our own Mike Conley. He’s just the same as he always was: Ultimate glue guy.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions

When did I ever say Corey Maggette was better than Iguodala? They’re about even, but having said that at least Maggette can actually give us something on the offensive end.

I’d rather not either. Since Maggette is a black hole who can’t shoot. I want TWO dimensional wings. How hard is that to ask? A shooter/slasher who can maybe play off the ball and is decent defensively.

I don’t need the SF version of Dwight Howard to win a title. Marion’s a role player and James is highly over-rated defensively but nevertheless the Mavericks and Heat are in the finals.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Maggette is a wing that, for awhile there, scored 20 points a game, so I just assumed that he was the type of guy that you were looking for.

I completely agree with you, by the way, and would absolutely LOVE a multi-dimensional wing who could shoot, slash, play off of the ball, and play good defense; the problem is, THAT’S CALLED A SUPERSTAR.

by The Crooked Man on Jun 9, 2011 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Then let me lower my expectations: A Jodie Meeks who can play defense. One such player that comes to mind is Doug Christie. Give me a starter. Iguodala is one, but he’s such a starter that as I said before, the rest of the roster must accomodate his weaknesses.

Iggy and Ellis are much the same players, but on the opposite spectrum, where as Ellis is a good slasher but little else, Iguodala is a spectacular defender and little else.

And they both can’t shoot, which is why playing Iguodala/Ellis together isn’t really all that feasible.

This goes back to the Dre Miller years and how fans talked about Miller/Brand not co-existing.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions

NBA Scouts who get paid a couple hundred grand a year who call Iguodala a starter. But never an all-star, and they’ve all concurred he’s overpaid by 5-7 million!

Do you see the difference between the quote above and the quote below?

a scout has come out and said it.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 9, 2011 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions

The first half of this paragraph perfectly exemplifies the point in my post above: you continuously contradict yourself, pounding the drum of lock down defense not being important for wings, and the need for them to be “two dimensional” but then ask for someone like Doug Christie, who played great defense and hit open shots, nowhere close to a multi-dimensional player! I love those type of glue guys, too (Bruce Bowen was basically the same player) but to say about Iggy:

he’s such a starter that as I said before, the rest of the roster must accomodate his weaknesses.

and then tout Doug Christie as multi dimensional is insane. Guys like that are only effective offensively if you can hit them for open shots: that certainly seems like the kind of thing that “the rest of the roster must accommodate” for, as you have to have guys that can create shots for them.

I honestly think that if the Sixers had Doug Christie and Mike Bibby in their primes right now, you would absolutely love Iggy because he would get them tons of open shots. As the roster stands, though, you just can’t appreciate what he brings to the table.

by The Crooked Man on Jun 9, 2011 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions

I would, it would put Iguodala in his perfect role as roleplaying wing, And our half-court offense would be significantly better.

As of right now, Jodie Meeks can’t create his own shot. Turner had his flashes but we’ll have to wait and see. It’s really only Jrue Holiday and Elton Brand. And while the sky’s the limit for Holiday, one player can’t do it all.

To me, I’d rather rebuild. I don’t see how we can get that scoring wing that would supplement Iguodala. And I don’t see Turner as that perimeter shooting wing. If Turner excels in the NBA, it will be due to how much of a slasher he is.

Holiday/Turner have tremendous upside, but both need the basketball. What we really need, is a Peja Stojakovic type for the future. Sadly, I don’t see Turner as a 3. That’d negate Turner offensively and maybe even defensively. So Meeks would probably be a spark plug optimally for us.

I mentioned that Washington SG Klay Thompson. If he can bulk up and improve as a defender, could he make the transition to SF? To me, Thompson is exactly what we need to compliment Holiday/Turner. That and a C would be great.

Biyambo is dropping according to Chad Ford’s latest mocks as well. While I soured on him due to being a project, I said before I wanna rebuild so I’m okay with waiting. Maybe Lou, Speights and a future could get us something like #14 where we can nab Biyambo as well.

Biyambo and Thompson would be an excellent draft.

by LeQuan Glover on Jun 9, 2011 10:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Despite my comment to Jefu

I will respond. I am actually trying to bring a reasonable, productive debate about this up. Most posts just slam Monta, which I don’t think is fair. You, on the other hand, just slam Iggy, which isn’t fair either.

by einman77 on Jun 9, 2011 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions

I’m pretty certain that Golden State has the worst playing scheme in basketball. Play no defense, give the ball to Monta to carry the offense.

He’d be coming to a completely different system, a system that he would have to get used to. He was drafted by the Warriors and played in a system that didn’t preach a lick of defense for many years. But under the Collins-led Sixers, we play and practice team defense (which I think Monta is capable of doing well in, despite his man-on-man shortcomings), team offense/sharing the ball, and ball security. We’re a responsible team with a much more complete system than the joke of a playbook they have in Oakland.

I really don’t think Collins would throw out everything he has established last season with Monta’s arrival. Instead, Collins would have a very competent offense specialist that would be able to drive to the basket at will, go on tears, and rattle off ten quick points in the fourth quarter to seal a win (which was a serious problem for us last season when we lost so many close games).

Responsible and wise use of Monta will reign in his efficiency issues I think. I doubt Collins would stand there and allow him to chuck up shots against double teams and carry the offense – there’s no need to carry the offense when we’ve got Jrue, Evan, EB, etc there, a team where six guys averaged double figures with the highest scoring bench in the league last season. But I think he can become a hell of a closer for us, a guy who can hit a winning shot (which Iggy never could do).

The only thing that worries me is his size. He’s a shooting guard trapped in a point guard’s body. That’s the only reservation I have about Ellis.

by JKM-76- on Jun 8, 2011 10:34 PM PDT reply actions

I doubt Collins would stand there and allow him to chuck up shots against double teams and carry the offense

I don’t. He lets Lou Williams do it all the time.

by dweebowitz on Jun 9, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions

SOMEONE WITH SOME SENSE

I gave up on this site a while ago. Too many “know it all’s.” SOMEONE WITH SOME SENSE. They killed me for a Iggy/Speights for Ellis/Wright trade. What do they think they’re going to get for Iguodala???? Or maybe they’re fine with a .500 record and mediocrity. Whatever it is, I don’t understand some people and appreciate a good..GREAT..post.

by ajandone on Jun 14, 2011 2:58 PM PDT reply actions