Sixers 2011 NBA Draft Grades Compiled: "Phlegm"
by Michael Levin on Jun 24, 2011 8:12 AM PDT
in 2011 NBA Draft
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Heading into the 2011 NBA Draft, the Sixers were rumored ad infinitum to do two things: 1) Trade Andre Iguodala; 2) Trade Andre Iguodala and move up in the draft. When they did absolutely nothing but sit on their hands and pick Nikola Vucevic and Lavoy Allen quietly at their assigned numbers of 16 and 50, it didn't exactly excite the pundits. Here are the Sixers draft grades from around the web.
Fit has to be balanced with talent. The Sixers needed a big man and can probably give Vucevic more early minutes than they could a wing. But guys like Chris Singleton looked like such better prospects, it's hard to cheer such an uninspiring punt.
More after the J.
The Sixers needed size and so they took the biggest guy on the board, but this was a case of drafting need over talent. Vucevic will be solid in the NBA, but he's far from being a potential star. Allen doesn't exactly get you excited after a lackluster four years at Temple.
Ben Golliver and Matt Moore, CBS Sports: C+
Taking Motiejunas would have been a bigger gamble and at least Vucevic has work ethic. He has no athleticism, none to speak of, and is, in a lot of ways, Spencer Hawes. But there's no point in creating a logjam for yourself just to avoid drafting for need. The Sixers could have done worse for how their roster is constructed. Lavoy Allen will not be joining us next year.
Brian Ward, SBN Philly: (no grade, just a great line)
I think we've moved on from the "you can't teach height," period of talent evaluation, though it seems our front office has not.
Jordan Sams, Liberty Ballers: C/C-
I probably went a little overboard driving the "F This Pick!" bandwagon on Twitter. My rationale being, I really wanted to come out of this draft with either the best player available, a prospect with a high ceiling, or a significant defensive improvement at center. Vucevic fits none.
Michael Levin, Liberty Ballers: C-
I'm glad they got big men because it is certainly a need but they simply picked the wrong guys. Their decision-making is inspiring in its lack of inspiration. I know Doug Collins has a bigger basketball mind than I and Stefanski and Thorn are probably smarter people than we are as well, but that doesn't mean they made the right call.
Good pick up with Nikola Vucevic, the kind of genuine, low-post center and rebounder they could use. Sorry Spencer Hawes.
Kelly Dwyer, Ball Don't Lie: C+
This is sort of the opposite feeling that I have about the Knicks, ending up with the same grade.
I like Vucevic's game. He can shoot, boards like crazy, and is a better athlete than some analysts gave him credit for. This is a legitimately good NBA player. I just wonder where he fits in Doug Collins' system, and amongst that loaded frontcourt in Philadelphia. I get that you have to draft the best player available, but I also wonder if the next team in Vucevic's career is his best team available.
Allen? Not feeling it.
Once again, I'd like to reiterate that this is not a damning pick. It won't send the team into a tailspin for years and years. But they did not maximize the pick's value and take the best player there, which is what you have to do when you're not close to contending for a title. Another year where the Sixers get outdrafted by seemingly everyone else and remain mediocre. This is starting to feel redundant.
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This right here:
Another year where the Sixers get outdrafted by seemingly everyone else and remain mediocre. This is starting to feel redundant.
This is why the Sixers will continue to be relatively entertaining, but ultimately useless as an NBA team. I guess we are lucky to have our first round playoff exits and we should be happy to have even that? I hope Turner gets a lot more playing time this year at least, but perhaps I shouldn’t get my hopes up.
What are the other recent drafts we screwed up so much?
There’s Speights, and that’s only with hindsight.
Exactly
For where we have picked the last few years, we’ve actually gotten good value minus speezy and there is still a tiny, very tiny glimmer of hope I’m holding on to for him. The ship is sailing away mighty fast tho
They haven't tried to improve their status at all.
They are content to sit and take whatever comes. No looking to improve on picks or gain future picks. And I most strongly agree with the mediocre part of the quote. This is a mediocre team and nothing about how the team is run suggests the Sixers will be anything but mediocre going forward.
Collins has most likely forgotten more basketball then I’ll ever know but I don’t see how you take Vucevic over Singleton or Hamilton. Even if he’s your guy trade down into the early 20’s & pick up another asset(since the Rockets supposedly were high on him too)
I’m 100% sure that Vucevic would not last until the 20’s. I think the Knicks were pretty high on him. Might of went @ 17.
by Dan Deathcore on Jun 24, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
If other teams were high on him, couldn’t we have traded the pick and ended up with Marshon Brooks plus extra value?
When I took a second look at Brooks, I realized he is more than just a volume College scorer. He can make athletic plays on both ends of the floor, and looks solid as a catch and shoot option. He might have been our future starter at SG next to Jrue…..or maybe a younger upgrade at scoring guard off the bench to Lou. His combo of arm length and athleticism could even allow him to play some undersized SF at times.
Maybe he could replace Lou (though do we really need to get younger when Lou is only nearly 25?) but he is definitely not an ideal SG. He played in an uptempo style with little defense in college. He had the ball in his hands a whole lot and isn’t a particularly good shooter. He would have needed a significant role change (much like Turner) when coming to Philly.
"Miami can’t beat Chicago, why? Because Chicago has everything Miami has and more.... I’ll grant you Wade/James stealing a game, or maybe two. But we’re seeing an OKC/CHI finals, and that’s a finals everyone will tune in for." - LeQuan Glover
Singleton & Hamilton
So, Singleton is supposed to be a defensive stud who can guard multiple posistions, who’s biggest fans even admit his offense is suspect. The Knicks definitely need defense and they pass on him for Shumpert.
Hamilton, is a guy that everyone else is supposedly so high on lasts another 10 picks before getting picked and shipped outta town for Rudy Fernandez.
I mean we can keep talking about these guys upside, but lets not pretend there were not glaring holes in there games. There is a reason they were still alive and passed over even after the Sixers took Vucevic.
On Singleton and Hamilton, I agree with you. As attractive as parts of their games were, there were also some scary parts too.
But isn’t that the same with Vucevic?
So why not Marshon Brooks? I don’t see any huge scary huge holes in his game.
Except his porous defense and insanely high usage rate? No scary huge holes at all.
"Miami can’t beat Chicago, why? Because Chicago has everything Miami has and more.... I’ll grant you Wade/James stealing a game, or maybe two. But we’re seeing an OKC/CHI finals, and that’s a finals everyone will tune in for." - LeQuan Glover
So we should draft like Charlotte, who most of you feel “killed” the draft, and take guys at positions we already have filled for years only to see them ride the bench. I love the ideology around this place
by B-DON on Jun 24, 2011 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Or draft guys with much higher upside who do fill a need. Brand isn’t the future of this team. Also, the idea that you can’t develop a guy unless he’s starting with 35 min/game is complete bull.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
give it some time man
its the natural philly gut reaction to react with apocalyptic depression everytime we draft or make a move. we just came off a little gem of a season, something everyone could put in the bank and feel good about.
give them a chance to see what happens here.
and frankly i don’t see how a kid who is 7 feet and 250 who is STILL growing, and can stroke from as far out as 3, and finish over either shoulder, doesn’t have some upside.
everyone had glaring holes in this draft EVERYONE. jesus, the number 1 pick played 11 games, the number 2 pick is a tweener who won’t be able to guard much at his position and doesn’t exactly set the world on fire with any part of his game. and we picked 16th…
i get that this is a blogsite, i LOVE coming on here and discussing trades, development, the drafts have been particularly exciting, but maybe don’t crucify a guy just yet is all i’m saying.
I’m not crucifying “him” I’m crucifying the front office for making only conservative decisions in this draft.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
im not just talking to you
i’m talking in general. and really, what sort of moves did you want them to make? from all accounts vucevice was a target of several teams in our range (houston and knicks for instance), trading back to get him at a discount and with a possible pick might not have been realistic.
lamenting that we didn’t made moves only really makes sense if there were good moves to be made, but where were they?
Everything I’ve heard and read had Vucevic going as a late first round or early second round pick. Some other guys like Faried or Hamilton supposedly have more upside. Guys like Faried are more risky, but I think it’s a good price to pay in a weak draft. In terms of “good moves to be made”, I think these would have been better moves. Staying conservative and getting a slightly better version of Hawes doesn’t exactly fill our need at the center position.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
The best teams draft talent regardless.
That talent may go on to replace a player on the way out (Brand won’t be around forever for example) or can be flipped in a trade for more picks, future picks or talent that fits the team (as opposed to mediocrity that fits the team). In a draft filled with uninspiring choices, why not at least take someone with great upside?
So the team makes up for the lack of a Center getting one this season with a much weaker pick, instead of picking up Favors or Cousins last year instead of Evan Turner. How stupid is it to waste a high pick on a swing man, when the team clearly needed a center? Well, that was last year.
This year they drafted a Center, now we’ll see if he can play well enough to be worth selecting. You usually don’t find franchise changing talent at the 15th spot.
The more I think about this, the more I think the negative spin is undeserved. This was considered a very weak draft, so extraordinary efforts to move up did not make sense. They drafted the best player available based on need, and really Center is the place where they really need help. It was highly unlikely they could have found anyone to push Holiday, Iguodala or Brand out of their position, so what else could they have done that would have made a real difference- with the talent available not much!
It may suck to say the best thing was to do what they did, so boring and all, but that is the truth of the situation. The only thing we can do now is wait and see if any of the big men selected after outperform Vucevic.
i think even that would be unfair
in every other sport there’s a realization that guys might not be good, or even who they’re going to be, right away. but in the nba people have pretty terrible expectations.
jrue got a pass as a developmental guy, and now everyone is (justifiably) jizzing their pants over his potential.
ET has the same potential, and just as good of a freshman year, and everyone wants to crucify him (unjustifiably, but obviously this has turned some following the playoff performances)
vucevic deserves some time to get a shot at this roster and see what he can do. and not just in a couple of weeks either. as a group of fans, philly needs to step off the hate before they realize they’ve been ‘darkoing’ young talent for years. hell, lets get more local, they’ve been ‘mcnabbing’ guys for years.
by pqrk on Jun 24, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jrue is a bad example...
…he was almost universally expected to go Top 10 and was a surprise fall to 17. And I still think Turner is going to be a really good player for us (and have been one of the leading Turner “apologists” all season).
The problem with Vucevic is not that he is the world’s worst player or something. It’s that there were players with much more interesting “developmental” potential passed up, and that at least to outward appearances, there was no effort made to move up and get a better player, or move down and collect additional picks.
It’s not that we (or at least I) hate Vucevic. He’s tall. He appears to have a basic idea of how to play his position. He’s basically a less-athletic version of Spencer Hawes, who has had some good games and some bad games. It’s that I hate the 41-41 thinking that led to his selection.
What is 41-41 thinking? It’s trying to rebuild and contend at the same time. It’s not taking chances on high-risk, high-reward players (which this draft did have). It’s not building up trade assets to bring in veterans (if that’s the way you want to go…not to my taste, but some people swear by it, including Danny Ainge). It’s just “hey, our frontcourt is pretty bad, maybe we should take someone tall, let’s get the safest guy we can find. Even if he isn’t particularly good, he won’t be any worse than what we already have.”
Vucevic is not a horrible player. In fact, I was pushing him months ago when he was an early second-rounder. I thought we should find a way to move up in the second and get him. He represented very nice value as a developmental player in the early second. It’s not the physical fact of him being here that bothers me. It’s how the front office arrived at the decision to take him (in the mid-first, where I don’t think he represents the best value, but to be fair, a lot of people did drop out this year). There is a lack of verve, of creativity, of daring, of vision, in the front office.
Vucevic is a guy you pick when you’re more afraid of being wrong than daring to be right.
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, there will be no trade for Monta!
It might be more accurate to say that Vucevic is a bigger & stronger version of Hawes, with more physicality, better rebounding and good hands. By many accounts, he finishes strong inside, which is something Hawes doesn’t do.
His measureables are not overwhelming, but many of his comparables in areas like 3/4 sprint, No Step Vert Reach and Agility drill are comparable to Greg Monroe, Aldridge, Bogut & Kaman. If he gets stronger and marginally more explosive, he could be a solid effective center for us, imo.
People keep bringing up Singleton, but the only reason to take Singleton(or Hamilton, for that matter) is if you have already traded Iguodala for a big. Otherwise, you have a pick that will not see the floor from a draft everybody considers to be weak, so exactly how much value can you get, down the line, other than filler. Montiejuenas is similar, he’s euro-big with major questions about his mental & physical toughness; imo, that’s a red flag for anything but a 2nd round pick.
To me, to use a baseball analogy, this was a situation where you are at the plate but the opposing pitcher is a junk baller who likes to nibble around the edges in the lower parts of the zone but doesn’t make a lot of mistakes. Therefore, you’re not likely to get a great pitch to drive so your aim is to make solid contact and go with the pitch. In this draft, the Sixers got the equivalent of a pitch on the outer edge that you shouldn’t overthink; just send it to the opposite field and take your base.
At the end of the day, the Sixers made a safe pick. Which, in a weak draft is OK to do. Unless we moved Iggy, there really wasn’t any point drafting a player at another position.
Look, the worst that can be said about Nikola Vucevic is that he is a below the rim player. Well news flash, this isn’t the NBA of the 80’ or 90’s. There aren’t many good (let alone great) centres in the league today. And more and more NBA power forwards are “undersized” and/or tweeners. Below the rim big men with talent and a good work ethic can succeed in todays NBA.
We were never going to find a diamond in the rough or a potential all star at #16. We addressed a team need. Even if we moved up in the draft, there is more uncertainty surrounding centres like Enes Kanter and Bismack Biyombo than there is about Nikola Vucevic.
Yes, the pick may have been uninspiring, but this really wasn’t the draft to be making moves in.
This is a legitimately good NBA player. I just wonder where he fits in Doug Collins’ system, and amongst that loaded frontcourt in Philadelphia.
Um… Can someone tell me what the hell Kelly Dwyer is talking about? The Sixers have a “loaded frontcourt????” Last I checked Vucevic was a center, and the only center the Sixers have is Spencer Hawes… and he sucks. I understand (but not necessarily agree with) the criticism of this pick based on Vucevic’s supposed lack of athleticism, people wanting Singleton, etc. but criticizing it cuz the Sixers are too deep at center?? WTF?? Am I missing something? He is talking about the Phildelphia 76ers right?
by FooFighter1124 on Jun 24, 2011 11:30 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, I saw that article too, and was wondering what Dwyer was talking about.
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, there will be no trade for Monta!
Haha okay good… Glad I wasn’t the only one.
by FooFighter1124 on Jun 25, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he’s a hell of a lot more impressed with Speezy, Battie, and Dongaila than the rest of us are…and Battie and Dongaila are free agents, anyway.
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, there will be no trade for Monta!
Yeah I was gonna write something about that but just opted for making a confused face.
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by Michael Levin on Jun 25, 2011 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I think this draft pick is what’s wrong with the organization. It was incredibly short-sighted. They went for an immediate need, hoping to win one or 2 more games next season.
SF is still a gigantic need on this team. Iguodala will not be a Sixer for long. Whether it be this offseason or sometime in 2012. Iguodala is highly likely to be traded. Thad is not a SF. Moving Turner to SF and starting Lou Will or Meeks would be a mistake. There were better players at a position that is a longterm organizational need and they passed up on them for a low upside player who is barely an upgrade on their current players at best.
"Miami can’t beat Chicago, why? Because Chicago has everything Miami has and more.... I’ll grant you Wade/James stealing a game, or maybe two. But we’re seeing an OKC/CHI finals, and that’s a finals everyone will tune in for." - LeQuan Glover
Well, according to Doug, he wants Iggy to stay, so maybe they were going into the draft with that mindset. Assuming Iggy does stay, I don’t think that SF is a need. Maybe the Sixers still aren’t sure what’s going to happen with Iguodala. From what it seems, the Sixers value him much more than many of the other NBA teams, so they may be willing to hold onto him for awhile till they get what they believe is a fair offer. If they do end up trading him maybe before the 2011-2012 trade deadline, they can (and should) get a better SF in next year’s much deeper draft… I do agree, though, that having Turner at SF with Lou/Meeks at SG is is a mistake. So, I agree with your point assuming Iggy will be traded this offseason, but I’m not sure how likely that is at this point though. I also guess I’m just not as down on Vucevic as you. I don’t have as much of a problem with them taking a shot at getting a center in a weaker draft, and I think he may surprise people somewhat with his play.
by FooFighter1124 on Jun 25, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
front office
i really want to know who all endorsed these picks and who had the most say. did collins endorse the 16 th pick or was he just seen and not heard. Or was this all Gm and up doing what they wanted? Anybody know or hear/
Collins really wanted Vuvecic and it looks like the whole front office saw him play and as he grew more and more assertive with every game, he helped his draft position. Also, his wing span is a big plus. Yes, like Hawes Vuvecic will be a player that plays on the ground. But he’s stronger than Hawes and will actually be able to get his shot up.
Think Brad Miller, think Rik Smits. I think that’s Vuvecic’s upside. And a young Brad Miller was a nice piece on a good Sacramento Kings team.(And then…the swift and utter decline into nothingness. I feel for Kings fans)
After looking up Allen(see post) I rather like him. I see him as potentially a Chuck Hayes kind of guy for us. Overall, yes these weren’t the guys we wanted. We wanted to rebuild, or more like we were prepared. It looked inevitable, but like always this FO chickened out.
But Vucevic and Allen are good pieces to have for the rebuilding movement that will eventually occur when Harris and CO buy the team. And a top-5 2012 pick might be loads better than a top-5 2011 pick.
Overall, not the best draft but it was a good one. Vucevic and Allen are already better than Speights and Brackins and will actually contribute to this team.
by LeQuan Glover on Jun 27, 2011 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
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