Kenneth Faried's troublesome size
by yosoysean on May 28, 2011 6:06 PM PDT
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I don't care if people have doubts about Faried's skills. That is a completely understandable worry. He has no offense and mostly played in the middle of a zone on defense for his entire college career. The problem I have is when people discount Faried because of his size.
First thing's first. NBA players play basketball while wearing shoes. The fact that he's 6'6" without shoes should not be a factor to anybody. If you're going to worry about how tall he is in bare feet then you should subtract 1 or 2 inches from every NBA player's listed heights. All of those heights are their measurements (usually rounded up) with shoes on. Kenneth Faried will be listed as 6'8" in the NBA. It is entirely valid to compare his size to other players who have listed as 6'8" in the NBA as they were given the same liberties.
But I'm not going to talk about how Faried's size compares favorably to some rebounders of the past. I want to talk about how he compares to current NBA power forwards.
Players do not block shots with their heads (as cool as that would be). They also do not get a head in a shooter's face. What matters most in regards to height on defense is how high/far you can reach your hands. I do not care how high Faried's head reaches. Because of his impressive wingspan, Faried's standing reached measured at 9'0". The only potential first rounders to measure higher are players projected to be centers and Tristan Thompson (9'0.5"). I compiled a list of potential threats that he would be asked to defend in the NBA and his standing reach compares favorably with most of them. I will post the list shortly.
The next issue is his weight. At 225 pounds he is a little lighter than most bigs. However he did post a pretty good number in the bench press. If his lower body strength can match his upper body strength and he uses proper footwork there shouldn't be many players that can push him around. The key is whether he can learn these defensive techniques.
As I promised, here is a list of players and their listed standing reaches and weights. Note that older players (e.g. KG), international players (e.g. Ibaka), and players who weren't drafted do not have a listing for their standing reach and were not included. Data from DraftExpress. (I have no idea how to format this correctly)
LaMarcus Aldridge 9'2" 234
Andrea Bargnani 9'2" 249
Brandon Bass 8'10.5" 246
Carlos Boozer 9'05" 258
Chris Bosh 9'1" 225
DeMarcus Cousins 9'5" 292
Ed Davis 9'0" 227
Blake Griffin 8'9" 248
Tyler Hansbrough 8'10" 234
Al Horford 8'11" 246
Al Jefferson 9'2" 263
Carl Landry 8'6.5" 248
David Lee 8'10.5" 230
Kevin Love 8'10" 255
Josh McRoberts 8'10.5" 240
Paul Millsap 8'9.5" 258
Greg Monroe 9'0.5" 247
Nene 9'1" 253
Joakim Noah 8'10.5" 223
Josh Smith 8'10.5" 221
Amare Stoudemire 9'0.5" 233
Charlie Villanueva 9'1" 237
David West 9'0.5" 226
As you can see, there's very few players in the NBA that Faried would be forced to defend whose size he probably couldn't handle. DeMarcus Cousins and Al Jefferson seem to cause the biggest match-up problems. Unless those players are paired with someone equally as imposing I doubt Faried would be assigned to either of them though.
In summary, I do not think Faried's size will be as much of a detriment to his NBA prospects as many people think. As long as he works on his lower body and develops proper defensive fundamentals (which, to be honest, I have no idea whether he will or not) there shouldn't be many match-ups that he cannot handle. If you don't like his skills, ok. That is a fine reason not to like a player. His size is not.
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
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This will get FP’d if the Sixers pick him. Nice work, Seany.
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Good work Sean
Did not realize Cousins was that big, geez. Anyway, I see Faried being a very useful player for whatever team drafts him, and will become an instant fan favorite.
formerly jdcvr6
"When I'm dead and buried, and my time here has passed. I want them to bury me upside down, so my critics can kiss my ass." - Bob Knight
Nice analysis, thanks for sharing. I too like Faried, but mostly as a very late first round or early second round pick to compliment a good team.
Even using measurement stats to make a case for a severely undersized NBA big still doesn’t convince me that rebuilding the 76ers to contend with a 6’7.5" pf/c ( which is what his actual height in shoes is) with no offensive game but long arms is a good decision for the 76ers.
[Interesting to note that 6’4" shooting guard Marshon Brooks has a longer reach than pf/c Faried.]
It will be interesting to see where NBA teams draft Faried. I suspect he will go in the early second round and I would be surprised if it isn’t because NBA execs aren’t concerned about his size.
Brooks has a bigger wingspan than Faried but his standing reach is 5’ smaller. Even so, he is a physical monstrosity that I wouldn’t mind the Sixers drafting if Lou Williams wasn’t around.
I would be surprised if Faried doesn’t go in the first round. He got way too much pub in the tourney to drop that far. Rightfully or not, NCAA Tournament performances tend to raise players up a few spots in the draft.
I think this chart is maybe not accurate for what these guys weigh now as NBA players in their primes.
It’s also important to know that while standing reach is important for PF/C, so is raw height and weight.
In those two measurements, Faried is in some way smaller than every single player currently on that list…..especially when compared to the players who have the ability to play an important PF/C role on a contender.
I’m sure that the inevitable Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman comparisons will come up. But not only were they the exceptions to the rule, they also were both significantly larger than Faried when they were doing their damage in their primes, They were both about an inch taller as well on top of that.
Faried is going to have to add 15 to 20 lbs of pure muscle and no fat without losing mobility if he has any hope of becoming the next Ben Wallace. If not, he’s just a more impactful version of Louis Admundson. That’s a player who deserves to be in the NBA, and can maybe help some teams. But that’s not a player I have any interest in with the 16th pick, not when other safer picks are on the board. Vucevic has half court offensive skills, 35 lbs of muscle and bone on him, roughly 4.5 inches taller, and about 4 inches of standing reach, and could probably start for us early in his career whereas Faried cannot with Brand and Thad both in his way. Drafting Faried over Vucevic is irresponsible if they are both on the board…..unless a sign and trade is in place moving Thad for something nice.
I think this chart is maybe not accurate for what these guys weigh now as NBA players in their primes.
Obviously not. It’s unfair to compare a player’s weight after a few years of NBA conditioning. That’s why I compared their weights going into the draft. Faried will have the same opportunities as the rest of these players to put on more muscle.
It’s also important to know that while standing reach is important for PF/C, so is raw height
Explain to me how someone’s height is anywhere near as important as standing reach in the NBA.
I’m sure that the inevitable Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman comparisons will come up. But not only were they the exceptions to the rule, they also were both significantly larger than Faried when they were doing their damage in their primes, They were both about an inch taller as well on top of that.
Rodman was listed as 6’8" in the NBA. If you google his height you see some places list him as 6’6" (likely his height without shoes). Faried will be listed in the NBA as 6’8". Rodman is not an inch taller than Faried. He was also listed as anywhere between 210 and 220 pounds. Faried weighed in at 225.
If you feel that Vucevic is a better player than Faried that’s fine. This whole post was made to show that Faried’s perceived lack of height shouldn’t be the reason that people should be worried about him as a prospect. It’s not meant to be definitive proof that Faried should be taken over any other draftee.
One thing I will say in your argument’s favor, I noticed that Faried often got burnt defensively when he started positioning for the rebound too early instead of flying out on a rotation. And sometimes when he tried to reach around his man in the post to get a steal. This often did result in a steal, but it also at times allowed the offensive player to too easily establish deep position.
These are mental problems with Faried’s defensive game more than physical that highlighted Faried’s lack of size. But if he made the better decisions and was a little less obsessed with rebounding, the opponents I saw in the vids would have scored less.
But I just watched a highlight vid of Wallace in his prime, and oh dear lord he was awesome. Faried is so far from that right now, it’s just hard for me to visualize him becoming that. But I guess it’s possible. I just don’t consider it likely. Faried can probably help a team. But with an undersized PF already on the roster, we need some size badly. It’s either Thad or Faried as far as I’m concerned…..not enough minutes for both.
Wallace not only was heavier, but supposedly had 3% body fat and benched 460 lbs in the early 200’s.
If that stuff is even mostly true, that dude was a freak. I remember hearing he’d even be lifting weights before games.
I think Faried is more Rodman than Wallace, who was a major musclehead. As far as positioning and such, I suspect the Dougie and company can coach him out of bad habits. NBA coaching is likely to be better than what he received at Morehead State. That being said, I do hear what you’re saying about the Thad/Faried problem…they’re like a perfect offense/defense platoon, but then what about Brand?
It’s not about me being in love with Vucevic as a prospect, because at 16, there’s not a lot to love out there.
Faried’s “troublesome size” does and should set off alarm bells, because his defensive shortcomings will likely be due to his lack of size (girth and height). Height matters in many ways almost as much as standing reach because it’s easier for an offensive player Faried is defending to feel comfortable seeing the rim. The reverse happens on the other end of the court.
His quickness, tenacity, and standing reach help make up for that. But Rodman and Ben Wallace were exceptions to the rule. Not the norm. It’s a risky bet.
Agree with your assessment of Vucevic as higher value at 16. To get a 7’ NBA body center with low post skills at 16 is real potential value there rather than a roll of the dice on a guy who reminds some people of recent defensive role players on good teams.
I like the draft express okur comparison but Vucevic is a better rebounder.
I worry a bit about Vucevic effectively clogging the middle on defensive rotations. Judging by the highlights and his lack of athleticism, that might be a weak spot for him.
But he has the ability to actually capitalize on those simple plays when one of our various drive and kick players create offense, unlike Hawes who can only hit wide open short jumpers in the 1st quarter.
He’s an upgrade over Speights as a rookie and an upgrade over Hawes in year 2 if he can play a lick of help defense. That “if” part is the only thing holding me back from saying he’s the slam dunk choice for us at 16.
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