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Redefining the draft: Evan Turner

Alot of people, I included, when we drafted #2 pick Evan Turner, was stoked.    Turner had an NBA-Ready game,  the jumper, the handles,  the Andre Miller-esque speed in half-court situations to get to the rim.    Turner was a weird combination of shooting guard skills with Point Guard skills.   Truth be told, there have been very few 2 guards of  Turner's projected caliber. Thinking of a SG that has a pure  mid-range shot, can handle the ball and make players better, Brandon Roy has been the oft-comparison and we may yet see that side of Turner(We've seen glimpses, including Opening night against Miami and 27 VS PHX).   Another SG that comes to mind is Kobe Bryant, and truth be told the comparison isn't that far off either.   Like Kobe, Turner has a fire about him that just wants to win as he transformed Ohio State into a contending NCAA team.   But unlike the Kobe/AI era, Turner understands what it means to win. Whereas AI never got it and Kobe needed to butt heads with Phil Jackson and experience Smush Parker and Luke Walton before getting it. 

A part of that, is being coached by Doug Collins, a basketball guru, having played against and coached some of the greats and having traveled around the world as an Olympian, Turner has been able to read a bible of knowledge that very few young players can get exposed to.       In the midst of all of these little factors that could build up to  a great, great NBA player however, was an Evan Turner mostly struggling to find his place.   A Turner that doesn't yet understand that being off the ball doesn't mean your not a part of the offense.  To those of us who were expecting Turner to translate, this sight was unbearable.

It was even more unbearable, knowing there was a 19 year old that albeit raw, could block shots, alter the game and is a young big.   You win with bigs, Favors might not have translated right away, but Favors didn't show anything that suggested otherwise. We knew it'd be a 2-3 year waiting period with Favors.   I'm not going to say Favors is the next Howard, because Howard translated  right away. Can Favors be a healthier Bynum? I think so, and that's a starting 5/4 in the league, neither of which 3-5 years from now, we have.  

So I want to first start off by saying,  yeah, the calls for Favors aren't totally absurd.  A potential game-changer when Jrue's in his prime, and we get cap space.  It shouldn't have to be either Favors or Turner.  We should have used Daly's expiring+ a guy like Iggy not for Spencer freaking Hawes, but for the chance to get Favors. 

 

Now, NJ took Favors at 3 but Avery Johnson is a win-now coach and you can be sure he was involved in that process even if he wasn't the coach. You don't think he doesn't take Iggy/Daly?    In a heartbeat he takes that(and the Nets would have a much better season and an actual foundation on which to build on).

However, I'd have to say that we Turner Translaters were a bit shortsighted.     We were of the opinion that a top-pick should result in a player that translates immediately to the game, that helps you in some capacity. Throughout most of the season, that hadn't been the case. Hence, the calls of BUST. 

Evan Turner has redefined the draft, into what it should be regardless of what draft status you were:   The draft is to get players, who can come into the league and contribute.     The Evan Turner we have right now is pretty special, what he's averaging like 8/4?   That might not be #2 overall-worthy if we look at it from the age-old perspective of high picks=highly productive players.  But if we look at it as  "Who can best contribute to the game", how well is John Wall contributing in Washington?

Let's be honest, Deron Williams and CP3 Led their teams(which weren't exactly talented) back into contention year by year.  LeBron James inherited the worst franchise in NBA history and turned them into back-to-back 60 winners.  

John Wall might have the stats of a #1 overall pick, but he doesn't have the results.  He hasn't as Saunders foolishly stated "transformed the PG position" or made Washington any better of a team.   Once again, the Wizards must pin their hopes on the lottery, when no Wizards fan probably wanted to see themselves back there. 

 

Our Sixers might be stranded on an island, but not many of us thought they'd remain on the island to begin with. We thought the island was breaking and they'd sink to the bottom of the sea, continuing with the analogy we hoped they sank to the bottom of the sea, in the hopes of finding the legendary city Atlantis(a  top draft pick).  So whose kept us ontop of the island? It's not Iguodala, sure his shot selection is better, but he lost his free throw shooting and  hence hasn't made as big of an impact as one would hope.  Brand without a doubt, and Thad rebounding from last yr helped as well.  

But did we have a secondary playmaker off the bench? Lou played well last yr, but that Lou is very very absent this year.  I haven't the doubt that if not for Turner, we wouldn't be averaging the most bench points in the league.     Turner makes things go with his playmaking skills.  When Turner's aggressive, even if it's only for 10-12 minutes you can bet those 12 minutes changed the game from a Sixers L to a W.  

What we would like to see is for those 10-12 minutes to turn into 48 minutes, but then everybody would like to see that.   If we have to wait for a year, so be it.

 

Pumper will probably call this an apologist post, but it isn't  I'm still very upset, I consider off the ball basketball to be very elementary.   When your cutting the corners, and when you cut them hard and fast, you find yourself at the rim with the ball.  Or, you can find yourself open for the mid-range shot, which he patented over the years in College.  

The difference is, I can wait now.  I can wait for Turner to discover the meaning of off the ball basketball. I can wait for him to understand that he can take the initative and post-up the smaller guard that would hopelessly be un able to guard him, instead of sparing him by waving his arms for the ball. 

And I can wait because he's shown me something. Maybe not #2 worthy in the old days, but in today's game with  the obvious lack of talent in the league, if Turner has translated into an NBA-ready player and he has, that's worthy of a top pick.

We could have Darko Milicic instead ;). 

Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.

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Dont get it

I mean he’s not a bust and he’s also not a 2nd overall pick. I like what doug is doing with him and he’s not the reason we have the best bench in the leauge. It’s funny how you compare him to kobe that’s funny! Turner will be fine not a super star but nba ready not really, but a solid player i’ll give him that. the big reason we turn this thing around is collin’s and the way he coach, because we got the same team from a year ago. You given turner to much credit.

by trufaner on Feb 17, 2011 5:40 PM PST reply actions  

Pretty good write up Lequan. Yeah I would agree that Turner needs to learn to play off the ball better, I think that will come in time. I think he likes facilitating the most though, either off the wing or from the top of the point. The good thing is though is I don’t think this will take away from Jrue initiating and running a lot of the offense, I think it will take some of the pressure off him to create a lot of the plays. The reason I’m kind of writing in the future tense because I think were going to see so much more from Turner whenever it is that Iguodala is gone or he gets a bigger role in the offense. Either way good things are coming from him that I think will justify the number 2 pick.

by jrb5094 on Feb 17, 2011 6:07 PM PST reply actions  

Wow. This post was all over the place.

We should have used Daly’s expiring+ a guy like Iggy not for Spencer freaking Hawes, but for the chance to get Favors. …

Now, NJ took Favors at 3 but Avery Johnson is a win-now coach and you can be sure he was involved in that process even if he wasn’t the coach. You don’t think he doesn’t take Iggy/Daly?

How does that deal even make sense? The salaries certainly don’t match-up. I guess the Nets could have added an expiring contract to get Dalembert’s expiring contract. Not to mention that as much as I like Iguodala no team is going to trade a top 3 pick for him.

Let’s be honest, Deron Williams and CP3 Led their teams(which weren’t exactly talented) back into contention year by year. LeBron James inherited the worst franchise in NBA history and turned them into back-to-back 60 winners.

John Wall might have the stats of a #1 overall pick, but he doesn’t have the results.

I’m not sure what Wall has to do with anything but whatever.

The Cavs had 35 wins in LeBron’s rookie season. The Hornets had 38 wins in CP3’s rookie season. The Jazz had 41 wins in Deron Williams’ rookie season (though Deron had only 10.8 points and 4.8 assists per game). Wall’s rookie numbers would have been good enough to beat any of those three players in Rookie of the Year voting. The Wizards are a horrible team but it isn’t exactly Wall’s fault..

It’s not Iguodala, sure his shot selection is better, but he lost his free throw shooting and hence hasn’t made as big of an impact as one would hope.

In Iguodala’s two best season he shot 72% from the FT line. He’s shooting 70% this season. The only real difference between Iguodala this season and Iguodala last season is that he’s shooting less and passing more. His AST% is at an all-time high and his TOV% is at an all-time low. Iguodala is definitely a big reason why the Sixers are “on top of the island” right now.

All that being said, I agree with your overall point. Turner helps the Sixers win basketball games. He’s not yet the scorer that most of us hoped he’d be but even the most optimistic of us only predicted him to score 12 ppg in the preseason predictions thread.

by yosoysean on Feb 17, 2011 6:32 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I love letting you do it for me. TWSS though seriously

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by Michael Levin on Feb 17, 2011 8:43 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn’t per say an offer I checked up on trade machine, and I think they would have jumped at a heartbeat to get Iggy/Daly together. They were going to give up Harris, Favors and 3 picks for freaking Carmelo Anthony. King was saved by the fact that there’s a dumber general manager than him. I, and everyone else here at Liberty Ballers takes that deal and runs away with it.

Then I trade Billups for expirings and who cares how much he pouts. The fact is, my franchise> one player. And we’re not beating the Spurs or the Mavericks, though if we’re lucky we might face the Lakers(it’s strange to say that, but they’re epically collasping).

Those Cavs won double the games of the previous yr, you can argue they had no where to go BUT up, but as we’ve seen this yr, LeBron has THAT kind of impact. The Hornets and Jazz were the same thing, they were lottery teams and these guys come in and change the structure of their respective franchises.

Here’s the thing: The Wizards aren’t even REMOTELY better, after drafting John Wall. He’s an individual talent, but it’s clear he’s not(yet), a game changer like most #1 picks should be.

Iguodala is certainly being a better playmaker, better playmaker, better shot selection but even Marc Zumoff said Iguodala has been “horrible” at the line. Which, has hindered him from having a better season(and ultimately the team). If he upped that up to 75%, he’d probably be a 18-19 PPG scorer as he was 2-3 years ago, and then the team could fit the predictions earlier(the majority voted for 15+ wins).

As nice as this streak is, it’s no different than the Cheeks/Dileo 76ers. The thing this team has been able to avoid, is a stretch of games against +.500 teams. The Spurs had a fluke of a game, and Jrue carried us. Do we win against Houston without Jrue Holiday? Probably not and like everyone points out, he’s only 20. That’s his greatest strength and handicap.

It means Jrue will have a stretch, like he had earlier again. If you combine that, along with the fact that we have 11 games remaining against +.500 teams(this isn’t mentioning alot can change, there are some under .500 teams that can make a push). I’m sorry, I only see 11-13 wins.

For a 38 win total, which hey is a 2-3 game improvement over my off-season predictions of 35 wins. Sadly, we WILL make the playoffs and we will be swept. Michael may be drinking the Kool-aid and saying we can win a game against Miami, or two against Orlando. But Miami has such athleticism, Orlando has such depth and shooting, neither of which we can handle. Boston is so experienced.

If we win a game against any of those 3, we accomplished alot with a signifcantly inferior roster. That doesn’t mean we should cheer for it. It’s only a matter of time, under the Stefanski/Thorn mess that the island begins breaking again.

And problem: Jrue is a FA by that time.

Our management has SUCH great foresight(sarcasm).

by LeQuan Glover on Feb 17, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

If he upped that up to 75%, he’d probably be a 18-19 PPG scorer as he was 2-3 years ago

Easy math!

Iguodala has attempted 212 free throws this season and has made 149.

75% of 212 is 159.

If Iguodala was shooting 75% on his free throws he’d have 10 more points this season. Total. That’s a little more than 0.2 points per game.

If Iguodala had made 100% of his free throws this season he’d have 15.6 ppg.

They were going to give up Harris, Favors and 3 picks for freaking Carmelo Anthony.

I’m fairly sure that deal wasn’t done because New Jersey was the one that declined. Everything I read indicated that the Nets were reluctant to trade Favors in a deal for Carmelo.

by yosoysean on Feb 17, 2011 10:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Harris and 3 picks is still worth more than Melo. And so long as they didn’t trade their own first, they could actually make a quick upswing via the lottery.

by LeQuan Glover on Feb 18, 2011 2:00 AM PST up reply actions  

How about this:

If we don’t get swept in the playoffs, you have to promise never to write another post on this site again.

If we get swept in the playoffs, I will never respond to one of your ridiculous comments ever again. I will bite my tongue, so to speak, from that point on.

Deal??

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Feb 19, 2011 2:36 PM PST up reply actions  

OK, I admit it...

…I’m a pretty unabashed Turner apologist.

But.

Turner helps the Sixers win basketball games.

This is all I care about with him. Not how many points he scores. Not how many All-Star games he does or does not get invited to. Not whether the sporting press, or the fan base, thinks he justified his draft position.

by dweebowitz on Feb 17, 2011 6:44 PM PST reply actions  

As a random trade (part of a bigger Melo to NY deal):

Turner + Speights + Kapono

for

Nene + Gallinari

by tk76 on Feb 19, 2011 9:55 AM PST reply actions  

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