Trade for Dwight Howard
by BrandonB on Nov 30, 2011 10:46 AM PST
Email
PrintElton Brand, Lou Williams, Nikola Vucevic and several future picks for Dwight Howard.
Would Orlando take something close to this?
If so and if Dwight is smart, his best option would be to come here and play with this young, up-and-coming squad in which he will be the leader and focal point. Imagine:
Howard-C
Thad-PF
Ig-SF
Turner-SG
Holiday-PG
To me that is an extremely competitive team for possibly the next 7-10 years. Is there anyway on earth this could be remotely possible or am I just completely high on drugs?
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
103 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
No orlando wouldn’t take anything like that
by JohnHasADHD on Nov 30, 2011 10:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I added Vucevic. I mean I just read the Nets are offering Brook Lopez for him. Brook Lopez? Seriously? If that’s what Orlando is dealing with, I think the Sixers can be in the running.
Oh – yeah – Sasha makes the deal better. It’s an awful trade still.
yes, the report is that the nets were going to make that ridiculous offer, is there a report that the magic wouldn’t hang up the phone the moment the offer was made?
We have one report, and there are 28 other teams with assets, and somehow you think, ok the nets made a terrible offer (that there’s no way the magic will accept) so let me make a slightly less but still very terrible offer and the magic would obviously jump on that because the nets offer was so laughable.
The Magic aren’t going to trade dwight for scraps
Dwight isn’t going to sign an extension except where he wants to and no one has mentioned Philadelphia ever as a consideration
by JohnHasADHD on Nov 30, 2011 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
The Magic are going to trade Dwight to a team Dwight wants to go to who is proposing the best offer. And yes I understand no one has mentioned Philadelphia. That is the whole point of this post. I am mentioning Philadelphia.
Dwight Howard has made it clear (according to ‘sources’ that are as realiable as the nets trade) where he wants to end up – Philadelphia isn’t on that list.
And your whole premise is based on the god awful nets trade which the magic would never take
by JohnHasADHD on Nov 30, 2011 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
The Magic do not care about where Dwight wants to be traded to. He doesn’t have a no-trade clause, so the Magic can just look out for themselves.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Carmelo ANthony didn’t have a no trade clause – in fact only Kobe Bryant does – and he went exactly where he wanted to go.
The fact that you think Dwight has no leverage is astonishing.
Dwight can only discourage teams from trading for him. Magic would not care about what he wants just what they can get in return for him.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Oh my god – so you didn’t pay attention to the carmelo anthony thing at all then – or have a clue how carmelo had all the leverage – no one is trading for a guy they won’t have past this season – sorry
Just curious. Are you that same prick from depressedfan? GoSixers?
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Dwight has the the ability to not sign an extension to any team he would be traded to. No team would be willing to trade a huge package to Orlando for a one year rental of Howard. In that sense, he basically has a no trade clause.
The Nets were willing to take a chance with Deron Williams. You never know. There may be a team that could do the same with Dwight.
The situations are entirely different.
1. Deron Williams didn’t say ‘i won’t resign with utah’ or ’i’ll only go here’.
2. Williams had an entire season left before he could be a free agent
Dwight Howard is a season rental. The nets added Deron Williams with enough time to convince him to stay OR to trade him if he’s going to opt out, you don’t necessarily get that option with Dwight, the extra season makes a huge difference
The Magic are going to trade Dwight to a team Dwight wants to go to who is proposing the best offer. And yes I understand no one has mentioned Philadelphia. That is the whole point of this post. I am mentioning Philadelphia.
The magic might not trade Dwight Howard, the Cavs didn’t trade Lebron, the Raptors didn’t trade Bosh. Everyones just focused on what happened recently, which was Melo forcing a deal, but Dwight Howard hasn’t explicitly said " I won’t stay in Orlando" – maybe the magic think they can do something to ensure he will
but the nets deal and the deal you mentioned are both terrible deals.
Once jim buss gets his head out of his ass, the lakers have the best asset to offer
by JohnHasADHD on Nov 30, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t understand why Dwight would want to go to the Lakers and watch an old ass Kobe shoot 20 times a game for the next 5 years. If I was Dwight, that would be the last place I would go.
Probably because Kobe Bryant makes the majority of all those shots he takes, regardless of his age. He has proven that he can win a championship without being surrounded by big name stars, but valuable pieces. Now, if you add a valuable piece, who is also a big name star, it’s pretty clear why Dwight Howard would want to go to the Lakers.
by The Mad Hopper on Nov 30, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
You made it easier:
LeBron – 51%
Wade – 50%
CP3 – 46.3%
Durant – 46.2%
You realize that big name players take a lot more shots and their percentages aren’t through the roof. The only players with “high” percentages are centers who post. Learn something about basketball before trying to call someone out.
And Pau Gasol is hardly a big name star. He is a very good player, but hardly the caliber of Shaq in his prime, or Dwight Howard now.
by The Mad Hopper on Nov 30, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
This is an awful trade proposal, almost insulting. I hope you’re joking.
A more likely trade would be:
Orlando gets:
Elton Brand
Andres Nocioni
Thaddeus Young
Evan Turner
2-1st round draft picks
Philadelphia gets:
Gilbert Arenas
Dwight Howard
I know. But at least they won’t laugh in our faces.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
Well they won’t laugh in our faces because we don’t work for the sixers
but yes they will laugh in the sixers faces – both trades are terrible
The sixers don’t have a shot at dwight howard but a realistic trade starts with:
Jrue Holiday
Who is the best young player on the team – if you’re trading for dwight howard you’re giving up your best ‘rookie deal’ player – it’s that simple
Unless it’s a great player (when healthy) like Andrew Bynum
Andrew Bynum isn’t a “great player” when healthy, he’s a guy that can protect the rim, get rebounds and finish underneath the basket.
And I am a BIG Bynum fan, but John your talent evaulation needs serious work.
by LeQuan Glover on Dec 2, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
I think this deal is already better than what Denver got for Melo. Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, and Timofey Mozgov aren’t exactly world beaters.
And where are the world beaters the magic get?
The magic trading howard indicates rebuliding, and they have gilbert arenas, they can’t waive arenas AND brand
Thaddeus Young is a bench player and evan turner is an underperforming #2 pick in the nba draft
with howard iguodala and jrue holiday – those 2 first round picks won’t come near the lottery
How is this a good deal for the magic at all – i’m confused
They’re trading $63 million and 3 years of Gilbert Arenas for $35 million and 2 years of EB. If they’re desperate they would take it, but I know other teams will offer more.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
They aren’t desperate, and now I don’t think that deal is better than what the nuggets got because the nuggets got young assets – elton brand isn’t a young asset
Their not trading for EB they would be trading for Thad and Turner. Trading for EB would just save them $28 million. I really don’t know how much better Danilo Gallinari and Wilson Chandler were then Thad and ET.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
I also don’t think this trade would happen. But I would rather have ET and Thad than Brook Lopez.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Your confusing all of us. Turner didn’t underperform after the first half of the season. He actually got alot better when he realized he wasn’t a spot up shooter and started putting the rock in his hands and actually ATTACKING the basket, like he did at Ohio State.
Turner can only go up and has gone up significantly since the all-star break. Could you KINDLY pay a little more attention?
by LeQuan Glover on Dec 2, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
the sixers do not too trade too get dwight howard. if jrue and et improve into all star players the sixers can amnesty eb and we can offer superman a max contract. the reason nobody is talking about the sixers obtaining dw is because the sixers are a 45 win team with average players, sort of like the orlando magic. the magic or not going too trade howard, howard wants his decision moment and the magic have stated there number one goal is too keep howard for his career. if anything the sixers will be front runners for dw if et and jrue become the players we hope they can be. jrue, et, ai, combined with dw and thats a championship squad. For dw movie aspirations, we have probably the most connected and powerful Hollywood figure on the planet who can help dw along in his post nba career.
I really don’t know what the perception on Philadelphia is for athletes. IMO I would rank the NBA cities as so-
LA
MIA
NY
CHI
PHI
I also don’t know what Howard’s perception on Jrue, ET, and Iguodala would have to be in order to bring him here.
by The Pied Piper on Nov 30, 2011 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
They’re high in baseball and football… why not basketball
Last name Ever
First name Greatest
#PayDeSeanJackson
Because there are differences in the situations
They’re ‘high’ in baseball because they pay the most money (yes cliff lee took more money to come to Philadelphia, the average salary per year on his contract in philly is higher than the other deal, the # of years is less, but in the same amount of years he’s making more money). There’s no salary cap, and oh yeah, the phillies have been competetive for years.
So have the eagles
Think back to when lurie took over, or before the phillies over paid for jim thome, were free agents clamoring to come here, were the owners opening their pocket books?
The NBA free agency model is completely different for a variety of reasons, you’re comparing apples and oranges.
Philadelphia is not an nba town – they just aren’t – the sixers have lousy attendance when they’re lousy
Philadelphia is not an nba town – they just aren’t – the sixers have lousy attendance when they’re lousy
Given this logic then Philadelphia isn’t a baseball town either. The attendance in Veterans Stadium in the late 90s and early 2000s was abysmal.
The Sixers are one of the better historical teams in the league. Basketball is huge in the high school and college levels. Philadelphia would be much more of an “NBA town” if the Sixers had a competent front office.
Of course you’re right in the fact that the Sixers aren’t a very attractive destination for NBA free agent though. But the reason is not because of the fans.
I doubt that fans are an influence on an nba free agent destination ever, unless it’s a hot girl i can lay factor.
Yes, high school and college basketball have fervent followers in philadlephia even so called ‘big 5’ schools that aren’t actually in philadlephia, but it doesn’t always translate. College allegiance is entirely different than pro town allegiance, my college allegiance is wisconsin.
I believe by percentage there are more ‘core’ fans of the phillies eagles and flyers than there are for the sixers. Attendance spikes wwhen you’re winning are more casual/bandwagoner who disappear when the winning does.
The Sixers are last in home attendance these days aren’t they? Were the phillies ever last in home attendance when they were bad? Were the eagles?
It’s relative I know, attendance does stink when you stink, but the sixers can’t sell out playoff games even still
Yes the Phillies were very close to last when they stunk. Before the Andy Reid era, Eagles games were routinely blacked out. Check 2001 Sixers attendence when they were good. It was 5th in the league. If you are good, Philadelphia fans will show support and pack the stadium. If you are not, they won’t come. This is one thing about Philly that I do know, if there ever was one.
Sixers were 25th in attendance last season.
Farthest ESPN goes back for MLB attendance is 2001. They were 24th out of 30.
Ridiculous Argument
And since then the Phillies won a World Series and have sold out about 8,572 consecutive home games, and the waiting list for the Eagles is a mile long (Part of the reason Lurie & Co. won’t get rid of Andy, they’re still so profitable). Yes, people play basketball in Philly, a lot of basketball. But I’ve paid $10 for sixers tickets in the upper level and walked down to sit almost courtside, because there is no one there.
If the eagles season ticket line is a mile long, then they ahve more stability to get rid of andy because people are still showing up.
Let’s talk NEXT season, the season after the dream team flopped, when desean jackson is gone, when people realize holy crap the 100 million dollar michael vick contract was a ginormous mistake
Let’s see what the eagles lose in terms of attraction to certain casual fans this off season
I think it’s time for Reid to go – not because i dislike him – but this flat season is on him – he built it – he hired castillo – he decided who to get – and now they’re kind of fracked
As long as the team is still so incredibly profitable, Lurie has no incentive to make any changes – which is why he hasn’t, even if Reid continues to make the same mistakes over and over again since the superbowl. He’s so stale here at this point, I think he’ be better off somewhere else just as much as we’d be better off with someone else.
What’s ridiculous about my argument?
Claim: Philly is not an NBA town because fans don’t show up to Sixers games when they’re not good.
Argument: Same logic could have been applied to the Phillies of the late 90s and early 2000s. The last time the Phillies had a bad team the fans didn’t show up.
I’m saying that if the Sixers actually had good a ownership and front office personnel then fans would actually show up. It happened in the 80s. It happened in the Iverson years.
The sixers are not a team of average players. Ig, Thad, Jrue, are already above average and ET will improve to above average. This team is only lacking a center to get to the next level in competitivness. The starting 5 I have stated above is a ~60 win team NOW, not to mention what it will be in the future after the young guys develop further. If Dwight really really thought things through and looked around the league, he’d find that the sixers are the one of the youngest, up and coming squads (along with Memphis) with one gaping hole that he can fill at center. He won’t be Pippen to anyone’s Michael here. He’ll be leader and face of the franchise here for the next 10 years. If doesn’t know that, someone from the Sixers needs to tell him
There’s no guarantee that Evan Turner will improve to above average
And Thaddeus Young is above average at one thing and below average at many things
Thad’s pretty decent at wearing only one shoe while defending Chris Bosh
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Taking both ET (in limited minutes) and Thad’s complete package, I would say they are both average or slightly above average relative to their respective positions. Thad so far is better at scoring. ET at rebounding and defense. Neither turn the ball over. Being that they are both only at the age of 23, the odds of them improving to above average are high and likely. How far above average I don’t know but I would be shocked if either of them didn’t improve this season. Typically, young players improve and old players decline. This is why Chris Paul turned down a trade to Boston, and hopefully why Howard might want to come here.
by BrandonB on Dec 1, 2011 11:12 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Their relative ages are not as relevant as their years in the league in regards to their likelihood to improve.
False. Ages are far more relevant than years in the league for this sport. Many studies have shown 24-25 is the peak age for NBA players. Basketball relies tremendously on athletic ability, so we shouldn’t be surprised to see a peak in the mid-twenties. I would agree with you if we were talking about, say, baseball or golf.
We’ll see. Thad has shown no improvement from year one to year four – so I’m not sure why you suddenly think his over all game is going to radically change…he lacks in the fundamentals…you should learn them LONG before you get to the NBA
Fundamentals can be learned. Athletic ability cannot. This is why athletic freaks averaging single digit pts in college routinely go in the first round of the draft.
And their lack of basketball iq are the reason so many of them bust out
Or did you forget about larry hughes – or rodney carney – two athletic freaks
I’ve seen nothing that indicates Thaddeus Young has a basketball IQ that allows him to get better. Basketball fundamentals CAN be learned but they rquire a guy to learn them on his own time in the off season, cause the coach isn’t going to teach him how to box out, for instance
4 years in the league, Thaddeus Young fundamentals still suck, but somehow you think that because of his age and history it’ll all turn out ok – and to me you’re ignoring the relevant evidence about Thaddeus Young himself and relying on generalitieis, and hope
Which you’re welcome to do.
I believe he’ll get too much money, for too long, and when Iguodala is finally traded (for his own good) the hatred will come down on Thaddeus Young who will be over paid and still not good enough to start
You named 2 busts out of 100s of players. I don’t know how good Dwight Howard’s basketball IQ coming out of HS, or Garnett’s, or Kobe’s, or Jrue Holiday’s after 1 year of terrible college ball. He aren’t even talking about guys here. We are talking about kids. Thad Young is still is a 23 year old kid with room to improve.
And god do I hope your prediction is wrong. That would be just terrible as a fan to watch.
Except Thaddues young has now played 4 years in the NBA and still shows no growth in the fundamentals, or basketball iq improvement.
Your arguing generalities of what is possible, and your using superstars who were better in their first four years than Thaddeus Young was to supoprt your argument at the same time.
I’m not taking about his bball iq 5 years ago, i’m talking now, he’s shown no progression and no development of basic fundamentals – four years into his nba career – that’s work ethic and dedication – he’s shown no skill growth but you somehow think he’ll suddenly show it?
I’m not convinced by this. If he shows any improvement at all, it’ll be minimal. Four years in the league is a lot of experience. I would’ve expected him to make a bigger leap by now if he’s as talented as you claim.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
It wouldn’t matter if he had 20 years of experience. The fact still remains that basketball (especially NBA basketball) relies tremendously on athletic ability more so than any other attribute. It shouldn’t be a shock to see a player peak in the mid-twenties, the average peak of human muscular growth.
That’s not what he was saying, and I blieve you over state the importance of athleticism COMPARED to other factors in becoming a great basketball player.
Work Ethic
Basketball IQ
Dedication
These three things matter more than athleticism – that’s why there’s so many busts of these so called ‘athelete’ you talk about – they bust because they lack work ethic, basketball iq, dedication, one or two or even all 3 in any combination.
The NBA is littered with busts who were drafted much higher than thad because of their athleticism, guys people raved over because of athleticism convinced that they could be ‘developed’ raw talent.
It’s why I favor two years in college and a complete overhaul to how the draft is evaluated
I agree but young players improve. Some from awful to just bad (and usually bust out fo the league). Some from bad to average, some from average to above average (Thad and ET’s case I think), and some from above average to amazing. It’s just a fact.
Here's the thing
about everyone raving about Thaddeus Young last season. Over all, his fourth season, while an improvement over his 2nd and 3rd seasons was pretty much the same as his rookie season.
Blame Eddie Jordan for one of those seasons but in his ‘best’ season everyone is raving about, overall he wasn’t that much better than his rookie season
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/y/youngth01.html
That’s my problem with thad young, he didn’t show ‘growth’ in year four he just showed a return to his rookie year
Agreed. Yet this still doesn’t prove that Thad will not show growth from year four to year five to year six.
If you selectively look at the data, sure it’s on your side
To me I see a guy who in his fourth year ‘blossomed’ back to his rookie year – I’m not sure how that’s on your side.
Not selectively, generally. Generally, players peak at about age 25. That gives him, most likely, 2 more years of improvement until he, most likely, reaches his peak.
To me I see a guy who flashed great athletism and talent his rookie year at the age of 19, set back by horrible coaching for 2 years, and finally coached probably in his 4th. Let’s see what Collins can do with him after 2 years. And then with him after 3 years.
CBSsports.com has a bit about how the lakers would now be willing to give up bynum for howard – about time they removed their head from their asses
about time they removed their head from their asses
Are you talking about L.A? L.A wouldn’t have hesitated trading Bynum for Howard for even a split second.
by The Pied Piper on Dec 1, 2011 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
You're wrong
I live in Santa Barbara, and LA hesitated repeatedly about trading Bynum for Howard last season. They wouldn’t consider the idea, it’s public information out here. Jim Buss has an unhealthy love for Andrew Bynum and is making most of the final decisions these days, and he said he wouldn’t trade bynum for howard.
I want to nominate this for the best trade idea after
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c2ms9ng
After the 2011/2012 season the sixers have totally blown it up – they’d have no paul, no howard, amnesty brand and all the cap room IN THE WORLD
Score
Not to start anything...
But the nets deal that was ‘proposed (the reports said it was being prepared but never proposed) would be the best Deal to Orlando. It give them capspace (as much as 47 million if they trade hedo and amnesty gilbert) it gives them young talent (A 23 yr old center with ’the skies the limit talent’) and draft picks (two first round picks in a strong draft). And not to mention that if Dwight got to the nets, that team is running the atlantic division.
Welcome to Nets City
Not to burst your bubble...
But Brook Lopez sucks.
What about in 3 seasons when he hits his peak of physical maturity?
He was pretty terrible last season but he was also dealing with injuries. Considering the talent at center around the league there are at least 20 teams minimum that would love having Brook Lopez as their starter.
True about him being hurt, but what’s not to say he hasn’t recovered from those injuries (no guarantee in sports). The 2 years prior he was pretty average for his position. I guess he has a chance to improve from average to above average if he can become fully healthy because of his age. And I don’t know about 20 teams loving him. I would word it:
“Considering the talent at center around the league there are at least 20 teams minimum that would feel they have an average center with him as their starter.”
Well Hawes is younger, so he’s father from his peak of course
and he’s a better rebounder than lopez – which is a pathetic commentary on lopez
Younger by a month. I’m not sure if that counts. Take away Brook Lopez’s supposed injury plagued ’10 and the rebounding is actually the same. Lopez then pretty much dominates him offensively.
Hmmm – did i say offense or did i say rebounding
My centers primary job is defensive rebounding – first and foremost – you must be good at that
And lopez isnt’ as good as hawes – in my link or yours.
There’s two sides to the game…And lopez isn/t better defensively than hawes (god that’s embarassing) so he can’t be THAT MUCH better than hawes over all (God that’s sad)
I’m not sure if defensive rebounding is any more valuable than offensive rebounding. Even if they are equivalent on defense (which they aren’t, lopez gets more blocks and less personal fouls), having players (regardless of position) who can put the ball in the basket efficiently helps alot. And in that respect, its not even close between between the two. Especially on this team which lacks scoring at times.
I believe that offensive rebounding is a ‘bonus’ where defensive rebounding is vital to winning games…that’s my theory
Reggie Evans was a great offensive rebounder for instance – never really cared
I don’t know about that. Defensive rebounding and offensive rebounding gain you a possession equally. In terms of helping a team win, I don’t think it matters. A possession is a possession.
Offensive rebounding isn’t a bad thing, but when a team is “good” at offensive rebounding, that can imply they are not efficient scorers, which is bad.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Defensive rebounding means that you’re limiting the opposing team to one possession, the better you are at it the more ‘one possession’ trips they will have. I just feel it’s more important, as a whole, to winning games then offensive rebounding.
And the opposite logic can be said for offensive rebounding. The opposition is not keeping you to 1 possession. I guess if you really wanted to technically find who was a more valuable rebounder, you would have to break down rebounding into a percentage. A player better at offensive rebouding would be better in a game in which his team would have more possessions (more opportunites to grab an offensive board.) A player better at defensive rebounding would be better in a game in which the opposition has more possessions (more opportunities to grab a defensive board.) My guess is that this would be alot of work to find out that across an 82 game season it all evens out, and both rebounds wold be more or less equivalent in importance.
And one is easier for you to control if you are good at the fundamentals of basketball (in my opinion), positioning, boxing out, rebounding, you control it more on the defensive end than the offensive.
And while not ideal there are places that break down offensive and defensive rebounding into percentages
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Liberty Ballers
Related FanShots on Liberty Ballers
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- The 10-man rotation, starring your Indiana Pacers
- Blake Griffin highlights, ‘NBA Jam’-style (VIDEO)
- Finally, Shelvin Mack and Robert Pack have a dance dedicated to them (VIDEO)
- Create-a-Caption: Allen Iverson, superfan
- Kobe Bryant-themed Gotye cover song waxes wistful for ‘The Kobe That We Used to Know’ (VIDEO)
