RUMOR: Iguodala and Brand Off the Market
by Derek Bodner on Jan 25, 2011 9:03 AM PST
in Philadelphia 76ers News
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PrintThe playoff push has clearly lifted the Sixers’ outlook. According sources around the league, Philadelphia is not eager to make major roster changes now, and both Iguodala and Brand are all but certain to be with the team throughout this season.
For those who have seen the movie Groundhog's Day (who hasn't?), this is life as a 76ers fan, with the exception of last year where the recovery never happened. Start the season slow, dig a big hole, play average ball the rest of the season to sneak into the playoffs (or close to it) and provide a false sense of inevitable improvement, leading decision makers to believe the Sixers are closer to basketball relevance than they actually are.
What are your thoughts? With the maturation of Jrue Holiday and with Evan Turner showing life, is there any more credence to this line of thinking, or are we once again buying into fools gold?
Source: SportingNews.com (Sean Deveney)
From Jordan: This is a mistake, in my opinion. I hate to reference the extremely over-used quote but, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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1 word.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
by soman319 on Jan 25, 2011 9:08 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
I posted this 2 years ago, but it’s time to dust it off:
The stages of a Sixers season: 2006→ present
1. Expectations
2. Confusion/rationalization
3. Anger
4. Doubt
5. Despair
6. Changes, youth movement
7. optimism (early part of run)
8. Enthusiasm (late part of run)
9. Reality (season over with or without 1 round of playoffs)
10. Excitement over mid 1st round pick with potential
No, it’s not. Listening to Thorn the other day, he does not think there will be good trades available and that the new CBA is tamping down teams willingness to take on big contracts.
I think that it is still TOO EARLY to consider breaking up this team. They are still improving and we do not know their potential yet as a team. With the NBA CBA next year unknown, I see absolutely NO REASON to trade IA9 or Brand UNLESS we get an equivalent big man (yea, the chance of a 60 degree day this week is higher) as a trade exception or expiring contract maybe WORTHLESS.
So, as of right now, I do agree with the 76ers. A month from now, if they are not playing even better with atleast a 500 record, then maybe they should trade.
by DeanH on Jan 25, 2011 9:17 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
YOU might not know the potential of ths current Sixers roster, but people who understand and watch basketball realize that it is a mediocre team with a mediocre future, and for whatever reason Sixers management is too stubborn to rebuild, even though we are in an excellent position to do so. I don’t care what Thorn said, we know that there are a handful of teams (Houston, Denver, Dallas, Cleveland, New York, etc) who have interest in Iguodala, and getting rid of him so that our young guards can develop without having to look over their shoulder would be beneficial regardless of who we get back
I agree. Our draft pick is going to stink no matter if Iggy is dealt or not. Might as well continue to improve as a team and pump up trade values. Although Brand (unmovable) and Iguodala (can get expiring and role players anytime in the future for him so why do it now?) aren’t my primary concerns.
My concerns:
1) Oh crap, it looks like they are marketing Lou to the home crowd….and think more highly of him than I do. I want to trade Lou soon.
2) Fueled in part by comments on this forum and in part by all the glowing remarks about Thad recently from the oppositions’ announcers, and in part by all the teams with cap room, and my concern that re-signing Thad might become expensive is slowly building. Someone talk me down. I don’t want to overpay.
I would be OK with this if it were “we don’t want to try to trade Iguodala when he’s playing through a nagging injury, below his normal effectiveness, and trade value is down”.
If the “improved” play (which is still mediocre) has caused them to re-evaluate what they have, then I don’t like that. I’m not even saying you have to move Iguodala, I’m saying playing .500 ball shouldn’t change ones opinion.
If we want to start Jrue, Turner, and Iguodala and see what the trio has and give them ample opportunity, and wait to trade Iguodala until he starts playing better, is injury free, and the trio has proven they can’t play together, I can be talked into that. If they’re embracing mediocrity, it’s the same mistake this team has been making since Iverson was traded.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
Question:
Is a core four of Holiday, Turner, Iguodala and Brand a championship contender if all four are in their primes?
Not sure the relevance. Brand is well past his prime. And we don’t really know what Turner will become.
Just a question ...
If the answer is no, them why would you build around the four when they’ll never be in their primes together?
Million dollar question.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
That was Stefanski’s big mistake in the first place when he committed to Brand/Iguodala for 5 years.
I think if Iguodala is worth nothing on the open market aside from expirngs (and Brand is worth less than that) then I can understand not giving quality players away.
If Iguodala can bring back a quality young big then it would be shortsighted to hold onto him.
You hit the nail on the head. I think Sixers finally realized there is no Godfather offer and the only think out there for EB and Iggy are expiring contracts and a bucket of balls. I agree there is no point in making a trade for the sake of making a trade or largely for cap space that might not mean as much in the new CBA. Absent Godfather offer, stay the course, play out the year and go from there. Kapano and Songaila are about $11.4M off the books just doing nothing anyhow.
I think this is it
I’m a Kings fan and we did an examination of players like Iggy recently and player who make over 10 million who aren’t seen as a player who can be a Top 2 caliber player for a contender just don’t command more than expirings and perhaps a late first on the market. If Iggy is valued at the high end of that scale, maybe a lottery protected first round pick.
Love some of the players on your team though, hope you can find a way to turn it around.
rising optimism...
…shouldn’t be considered a bad thing, or simply part of the mediocre cycle of life for sixers fans, especially after such a convincing win over a solid team. the guys are all talking about overtaking the knicks for the sixth seed and rightfully so. considering the sixers are 1-7 in games decided by 3 points or fewer, and 1-4 in OT, the “snake-bitten” syndrome has shown they’ve been really unlucky this year. if this is the time of the year rookies start turning it on (and turner’s been looking better), and young teams start to get on the same page, a well-coached team like the sixers have the ability to make the 6th seed, beat either orlando or chicago in an upset and make some noise, instill some confidence. you grab a big man in the draft next year and we could become elite with this core sooner than you think.
I want to say that Doug Collins has a big part to do with some of those losses: Poor offensive/defensive design.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
i guess you just have to hope that they’ve learned from those experiences and that, for the most part, they are behind them. safe to say, i think we’ll let any magic player take an uncontested three when we’re up by 4 with little time left from now on
by Nathan Mandel on Jan 25, 2011 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
Its a twofold problem.
Poor coaching and player inexperience or ineffectiveness. They aren’t mutually exclusive. I’m not saying Collins isn’t a good coach but he puts the players their position to make plays. Sometimes we get a shade of he-who-must-not-be-named when you have a defensive liability, instead of someone who is more defensively sound, when they are trying to defend a lead. The whole scoring vs. stopping debate is tired, so I won’t get into it. But when you are up by 6-7 points, I worry more about getting stops than trying to extend the lead with a minute or more left. In addition, playing good defense can create offense. We excel in the fast break, and evidence can be found just from last nights game against the suns. It’s situational management that’s been killing us in those losses. Yeah, luck has to do with some of them, but you cant blame luck for all of them. (I just rambled so if its not coherent, my bad)
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
and I realized i got into the scoring vs stopping debate. my apologies.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Thanks buddy ;)
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I’m not saying Collins is a rocket scientist but he didn’t foul 2 – 3 point shots that went in against ORL. He can’t control Iggy or Boss shooting fade away 3 pointers over taller defenders at the end of games. I blame DC about 20-30% and the players the rest of the way.
It’s not about a single foul or a shot. And I should have said it before but I meant some of the close losses (the ones decided by 4 points or less).
But yeah, I didn’t say it was completely DC’s fault or the players fault. They are hand in hand. Coach puts player in the position. Player performs. If performance is poor, coach makes adjustments to improve player and overall team performance, etc.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Agree. Both Indiana and Minny have been “unlucky” in close games. And its mostly that these young teams find ways to lose.
Hey, as a Kings Fan
We claim ‘king of the mountain’ on finding ways to lose close games. FTs, last moment TO’s, forced shots, we got’em all covered in spades.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 26, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
I knew this was going to happen
Which is why I was not excited about winning games earlier in the season. Now the FO sees the playoffs on the horizon (and the 2 home games to generate revenue) and they decide to not take a middling team and change it for the better.
Instead, they choose to be content with a #7 or #8 seed and first round exit. Very frustrating as a fan.
Honest question because this is being discussed by a few people (like me) who would love for the Kings to pursue Iggy.
Jason Thompson, Donte Greene, 2 1st rounders (top 10 protected for 2011) and the 2011 2nd round pick for the Kings for Iggy.
While I could see the Kings saying no for a number of reasons, why would Philly say no?
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
One point
You can forget Casspi (not sure why Philly would want him with their glut of bigs) Cousins or Evans in the equation. The Kings will continue to say they are both untouchable unless something dramatically changes.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Ugh bad typo's on my part
Not sure why Casspi would appeal to Philly with their glut of bigs, and Cousins/Evans won’t happen for just about any player out there (except a few of the younger stars like LeBron for instance).
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I think combined JT & Donte make 4 million. That's not really excessive under the current CBA scale. To each their own I guess.
But I figured that would be the response.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
I dont think thats a no though....
Im starting to think more about getting multiple first rounders….. and I like JT.
I think if there wa no lottery protection (or maybe only top 3 protection), youd get more interest. We are kinda sick of our own mid first rounders…
Honestly and I don't mean this disrespectively at all
A mid 1st rounder in 2012 might be more valuable in terms of player talent at a pick there than a top 5 pick in the 2011 draft. I’m not sure there is a franchise player available in the 2011 draft for any team and while I don’t mind this because the Kings don’t necessarily need that, I’m sure the Sixers might.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Fair point on the draft... 2011 quality is pretty unclear
now that Barnes and Jones and some others are not the standouts we expected/hoped.
Also – I know there is some rule against trading your picks in successive years so unless the Kings have extras (do they?) theyd have to make them 2011 and 2013 I think or 2012 and 2014.
But I know wed like to be able to procure a big (Kanter, Sullinger, maybe Williams) if not Jones. And outside the 5th slot it seems to wtaer down quickly… but Im getting OT I suppose.
Which makes me wonder why the Sixers didn't look at Favors or Cousins harder.
I’ll never understand what made Evan Turner more attractive to them over Favors/Cousins. But as a Kings fan, I’m thankful.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
And there were serious questions about Cousins's attitude etc.
I, for one, did support a trade down to #4 where we could get DMC and somebody else (like a Paul George or Luke Babbitt – my bad on him…) with the #16 that Minny had..
or even try to trade Igoudala for the #4 pick and have Turner AND DMC.
I think there was just such a strong consensus on Turner being “NBA-ready”. And Legend is right.
I wouldn't read as much into the draft yet, too early in the year
People said ’09 was supposed to be an awful draft. One of the worst in years.
It’s already given us Griffin, Evans, Harden, Curry, Jennings, Derozan, Collison, Holliday, Lawson, Taj Gibson, Tony Douglas, and Roddy B. And if Rubio comes over and turns out to even be a starter, I’d call that an above average draft.
People are too quick to declare drafts good or bad when you’re talking about analyzing mostly freshman who often can breakout as the year goes on or who are horribly miscast in their college system.
Just my 2 cents for whatever it’s worth.
The 09 draft was considered to be Blake Griffin and everyone else who could play at PG.
The only real surprise about the draft is the amount of depth the 09 draft has seemingly had.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
If Omri has 12 games with 85+ TS% (20+ mins only) on the season, I will send RikSmits a slice of Cherry Pie with real Californian cheese pasteurized locally in Washington state.
Might be where you would have to make a choice
Less protection in one year, probably negates the second pick.
Ray Allen was traded for the #5 pick and expirings. JRich for the #8. If one pick only got top 5 protection, I think that would be it in terms of draft picks.
Also understand your hesitancy on Greene who has a lot of potential, but it’s iffy if he capitalizes on it. However, I think you underestimate JT who looks like he’s becoming a legit starting PF. Good size, good man defender, solid team defender (though not a shotblocker). And he’ll only create a shot or two a game, but can hit the midrange jumper and finish solidly at the rim. Also a very good rebounder.
Not saying you would want to trade Iggy necessarily. But I think a young player, protected pick and immediately losing ~10-12 mil off the salary cap is probably the best you’d be able to do for Iggy. It’s hard because he makes close to 20% of the salary cap and will not be better than the #3 on a championship caliber team.
Well PG may think Iggy is worth all that
most on STR would disagree. I think he’s worth max JT and a 1st rounder considering his salary. He’s a #3 option on a good team after all.
"But screw your courage to the stiking place - and we'll not fail"
Macbeth Act I, Sc VII
by lietothegirls on Jan 26, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
I would actually prefer it if they were to package some of the expiring contracts for an average center. Someone like an Javale Magee.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4a9mnln
It gives washington an additional 10 mil. in cap room this off season.
Philly gets a decent center and an actual backup pg.
this team
with an interior defensive presence is way better than this team with spawes, if your goin for this year to actually play that was a horrid trade.
While I want them to trade some of the major pieces
I kind of want to wait for the new CBA first before doing so.
Player contracts will likely be a lot less after the CBA is hammered out, meaning high paid guys, especially ones whos play doesnt match their salary, will be almost entirely unmovable.
Of course there could be a period in which teams can buyout players, in which case I expect Brand and maybe Iggy to get cut.
by philiafan14364 on Jan 25, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
Bad decision.
This team, if it makes the playoffs, is not getting out of the first round, let alone winning a Championship. I am not interested in tanking the season, but I am interested in seeing moves made for growth purposes. Standing pat will keep us squarely in the category of mediocre. Building around Jrue and ET should be the goal of this team. I’m sure we’ll have a nice little season and make the playoffs and there will be some fun along the way. But for what ultimately? Doing the same exact thing next year? And then the next year? When will the tough choices be made to push the team forward? Ugh. Just ugh.
Honestly this surprises me.
It shouldn’t be it does. And it does because I honestly felt that Thorn was smarter than this. That he could recognize what he had in front of him and how truly mediocre it is.
I really don’t understand why a team can continue to do make mistakes, scratch that, the same mistake over and over and over again without consequences? I mean, wasn’t that why Thorn was brought in? To correct what was going on here? And yet here we are, same time, same place and probably the same result.
If Thorn truly believes that the return for Iguodala and Brand is so poor that it isn’t worth moving them then I guess I have no real argument to make other than keeping them here has done this team no good. Isn’t moving them, even if it’s for cap relief alone worth it? To me it is. If it gives this team a chance to rebuild, or keep building to the future then that is enough for me. I can handle some mediocrity when I see a well thought out plan for the future in place, so far we have got a lot of mediocrity and little in the way of future planning.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I thought we were rebuilding? And quite contrary to the media propaganda, having a bunch of “young” players isn’t rebuilding, it’s “young and talented” players. While Young has shown untapped upside, we know what Speights is, we know what Lou is. Neither can fit into the PF/PG positions, neither(okay, Lou has somewhat shown) a willingness to improve. And even if they’ve shown a willingness to improve, can they improve?
I don’t think so, Lou will always be a chucker-BOSS and Speights will always be the fat, talented, but fat, malcontent. Sadly, not even of the Zach Randolph variety. He’ll be a benchwarmer at best.
Not moving Iguodala is semi-understandable, though his game reeks of the mediocrity we despise. Not moving Brand is unacceptable. We need cap relief, picks and a general direction.
I personally would move both, and address the front-court in draft, eventual free agency. There are some good looking bigs in this year’s projected draft. No studs, but like Turner’s shown us, for kids it’s a work in progress.
This is disappointing (I am chanting Trons mantra as we speak)
That being said, if they are not getting any decent offers for Dre nor any cap relief for Brand, AND they believe its becuase ofCBA uncertainty, I guess I can understand it…. (though I think the offers should get better by deadline)
But then, maybe they should at least see what they can get to HELP this team out with their exprings (since we are capped out until 2013 anyway)….maybe trade ThaBoss, Speights, Donger, Kapono, Noc, even Thad for someone with a bad TWO year contract (Rip Hamilton, Kaman) that fills the shooter and big holes without killing us 2013.
Or even a Mike Dunleavy Jr or Biedrins
for Donger and Speights or maybe Thad
I'm going to try and remain positive
And say that it is possible that after a new CBA, they could trade Igudala and Brand next year with another year off their contracts. Maybe the Sixers can play well enough and possibly get an upset in the first round and their value increases. Again, I’m trying to remain positive.
I’m not counting it out that Dre gets traded this season, I can see Cuban really coming at us hard around the deadline.
We can only hope Iggy is Cuban’s white whale at the deadline. It’s not an impossibility though, Cuban’s done tons of dumber things before.
by dp on Jan 25, 2011 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I am convinced this management wouldn’t trade Iggy for in-prime Shaq. After all, Shaq wasn’t “versatile”. I’m gonna be sick. At least 3 more yrs of mediocrity.
The Sixers would trade Brand for expirings in a heartbeat
Iguodala is another story. I don’t understand why people take what management says with a grain of salt.
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really
Water was what killed them?? WATER?? t\They flew across god knows how many light years of space to a planet 75% water with rain over 98% of the globe, and they said thats the place?? And water kills them?? really? They haven’t invented rain coats???? It pisses me off so much because the first part of the movie was so good….
It was magic water! It touched Joaquin Phoenix's bat! (boy, did that sound bad!)
There can only be one Noce!
Yep, space travel
but they just neeeeever saw that coming!
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by lietothegirls on Jan 26, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
Iguodala + Salary for Kirilenko and rights to Ante Tomic
The Orioles Suck!
Play FESS More!!!
I love men!
HEH!
Brand and Iggy
Iggy’s market value has never been lower, besides his average play he’s also battling injury, so expecting any team, let alone a good one, to give up a major piece for a player marred by injury is pretty foolish.
I think this is a good approach, play out the season and see what you can maneuver during the summer. The free agent class is pretty weak this year so teams will have to trade to get better.
Ball Chat - Episode 17 - Just Kidd'n Around - 1/25/11
Irreverent, informative, entertaining. A welcomed curveball to mainstream watered down NBA analysis.
http://ballchat.podbean.com
huge mistake
if theyre serious. i guess we’re settling for mediocrity for the next 5 years. woohoo!
"Shoutout to Lebron, d-Wade, Joe Johnson, and chris bosh for trying to create a NBA2k team. Lol. (they would win 80 games)" - Louis Williams
by LouWilliamsMVP on Jan 26, 2011 12:18 PM PST reply actions
The Sixers wouldn’t be that far away from contending if they added the right players to the current roster. The two biggest mistakes this season were failing to draft another Center, and the failure to give Speights major minutes.
The first failure is with the front office for the pick. Don’t get me wrong, Evan Turner isn’t a bad player, but it’s clear he wasn’t NBA ready, and he’s not as good as Iguodala with a similar skill set. It’s just that when you have a gaping hole like not having a starting NBA center and you have the 2nd pick in the draft that’s what you should try to get.
The 2nd failure is Collins not giving Speights enough PT. There would be no doubt that the Sixers are good enough to make the playoffs if he had been given minutes from the beginning. Not playing him has impeded his progress. I had a lot more respect for Collins before he began coaching here.
With Favors and Speights in the same line-up 1-3 years from now with no further roster changes this club could have been in the finals. Brand and Iguodala would still be major supporting players, Jrue would be a fine point guard and reserves like Young and Williams are worthy of starting spots on other teams. That’s a lot of talent and a lot of depth. We’re just too short to compete with the elite teams who control the boards and the paint with size and strength.
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