Trade Machine: Andre Iguodala for O.J. Mayo
Andre Iguodala has been sent to the Mavericks and to the Knicks by us at Liberty Ballers, but somehow he's still on the Sixers. So let's send him somewhere else and see if it sticks.
It's been 42 games for Evan Turner's pro career, which would be a full season for him at school. He's shown signs recently of being the player he was at Ohio State and is coming off an efficient 14-8-5 effort against Phoenix. Turner should be starting for Jodie Meeks already, but if Collins is intent on keeping a shooting wing in the starting lineup, O.J. Mayo is thought to be an available target.
As our Memphis Grizzlies blog Straight Outta Vancouver wrote, Mayo has just lost his starting spot to Xavier Henry, and while he's been diplomatic about the demotion, can't be excited about his diminishing role on a 22-23 Grizzlies team. Money pinching Memphis owner Michael Heisley doesn't want to shell out the cash for eventual Mayo/Thabeet deals and especially not renew Zach Randolph, nametag of the colossal expiring contract, so a trade could be just what the doctor invented.
Hit the jump for all the goods.
Philadelphia receives:
O.J. Mayo - 2 years, 10.1 million (Q.O. for 7.4 million)
Hasheem Thabeet - 2 years, 9.9 million (Team Option for 6.5 then a Q.O. for 8.4)
Tony Allen - 3 years, 9.5 million
Memphis receives:
Andre Iguodala - 4 years, 54.6 million
Thaddeus Young - 1 year, 2.9 million (Q.O. for 4 million)
This idea blossomed where all good ideas do since 2009: Twitter. A simple query to Matt Moore, of CBS Sports, NBA Fanhouse, Ridiculous Upside, Pro Basketball Talk, Hardwood Paroxysm and everywhere else where orange balls are discussed on the internet, about the Grizzlies interest in Andre got the ball rolling. As a Memphis fan and analytical basketball mind (a rare combination...I kid), Moore was an optimal target for a Twitter back and forth.
Here's what Moore warned me about Thabeet after pitching the deal.
I want to ditch Thabeet so badly I'm willing to take back two small forwards when they just gave $80 mil to their 3.
Let me put it this way. I've never seen a seven footer hit the bottom of the rim. Thabeet does it repeatedly.
Nobody is going to claim that Thabeet has been a stud at the professional level. But he's a legitimate 7'3 prospect who could hypothetically turn himself into a terrific defensive/rebounding big man. Even if his offensive game never develops, his ceiling is much higher than that of former Sixer Samuel Dalembert's was. And when you pair that upside with a guy like former prep legend O.J. Mayo, who is having a rough go of it under coach Lionel Hollins, you're getting two could-be special prospects and unloading a big contract at the same time.
The loss of Thaddeus could be tough for some, considering the strides he's taken under the eye of Doug Collins, but he's a restricted free agent after this season, and it's likely he'd be gone soon anyway. If they did resign him, recent history dictates it would be for far too much money for far too many years. With the Grizzlies, he'd get a chance to start at the 4 next season when Randolph goes, or play a similar role to the one he has now behind Rudy Gay and Darrell Arthur as a hybrid 3/4.
Moore had concerns about playing Gay and Iguodala together because he feels they are somewhat redundant. Both are at their best when they are attacking the basket, sure, but Andre is a much better passer (20% assist rate), hits the defensive glass harder, and plays much better defense than either Gay or Mayo. The biggest area the Grizzlies would improve upon (and the Sixers would dip) is on defense, where they are ranked 17th in the NBA. With Andre playing between Mike Conley and Gay, and Marc Gasol at center (and a new contract after Randolph expires), the Griz will have a young, well-rounded team that is a good power forward away from making some noise in the West. And they can escape from the Thabeet mistake without catching too much heat for the admission since they'd be receiving two generally well thought of players in the NBA.
The Sixers, meanwhile, would have Mayo next to Turner and Jrue Holiday to gel over the next few seasons as one of the youngest, high-upside back three's in the NBA. Louis Williams, Meeks and the defensive-minded Tony Allen would come off the bench for the guard spots, while Andres Nocioni and Craig Brackins got Thad's minutes at the 3/4. Ideally, they'd go into next season with Hasheem lining up next to Elton Brand in the front court, letting Thabeet work through his struggles nightly with a guy like Brand to help him on the glass. This team would be pretty lethal in the half court when you consider Mayo's scoring ability, Elton and Jrue working the pick and roll, and Turner filling Andre's spot of doing everything else but with more offensive proficiency. All Thabeet would have to do is be big, gobble some offensive rebounds and flush some alley-oops to be contribute offensively. Mayo, sandwiched between above-average defenders like Evan and Jrue, would not be completely exposed for the poor defender he is like he was in Memphis next to Gay and Conley. Sliding a draft pick like Kenneth Faried into the 4 spot after Brand has gone would fit nicely too, allowing Marreese Speights to focus on offense while Faried and Thabeet clean up the glass and the D.
There's a chance that Mayo is just a ballyhooed chucker, Thabeet never develops, and Tony Allen makes Lou-Will look like he plays efficient basketball. But the Sixers aren't winning anything in the near future, and this could be a trade that brings two all-world talents to Philadelphia if their abilities can be harnessed and molded in the right way. And even if it all goes to hell, each of their contracts could be up before the 2013/14 season, where only Jrue, Evan, and Brackins would be on the books.
Let me hear it.
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I like it
But with Chris Wallace as their GM don’t you think we could get their first round pick too
And their first born!
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The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2011 6:48 AM PST up reply actions
Please, not O.J.
He’s exactly what this young team doesn’t need, a volume shooter who plays no defense. Does he even start anymore? He’s Lou Will’s BOSS. The only player of value on their team to Sixers would be Mark Gasol.
Exactly what I was thinking. We already have OJ Mayo light and most of the people on here cant stand him, so why would anyone want Mayo?
by philiafan14364 on Jan 25, 2011 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
“There’s a chance that Mayo is just a ballyhooed chucker, Thabeet never develops, and Tony Allen makes Lou-Will look like he plays efficient basketball.”
I bet that would happen. I don’t like this deal.
+1
Not in favor of this deal either. I’d rather just keep Iggy, even if Thad moves on after this year. Also, I know I’m not going out on a limb here or anything but I’m not sold yet that Turner is the answer for us. I know it’s early and he’s had some flashes but I just don’t think he fits for us. I agree with Collins that we need a traditional SG to space floor etc. Tuner doesn’t appear to be that guy so maybe he’s the one to move at some point. Not b/c he won’t be serviceable/good, but b/c he’s miscast on this team.
I agree it’s early and I could be wrong. His recent play is encouraging but that’s also mitigated by the fact that Phoenix doesn’t play defense and Turner went off twice this year against them. Sometimes it’s just the match-up. Believe me, I’m rooting like hell for the kid and hope he works out but there’s something deep down where I get the feeling he’ll be a serviceable player but not an all-star or anything.
by dp on Jan 25, 2011 6:54 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind trading Iggy for Mayo, but would rather not lose Young. The same trade works if you swap out Young for Hawes. Any chance they’d take that?
by The Crooked Man on Jan 25, 2011 6:34 AM PST reply actions
No. And Thad probably isn’t here long-term anyway.
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The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2011 6:44 AM PST up reply actions
Not a fan
Don’t see how Thabeet has a “much higher ceiling” than Dalembert. If anything, Thabeet would be lucky if he ever amounted to the player Dalembert is.
And Holiday-Mayo-Turner wouldn’t work on a couple levels. 1. Defensively, Mayo’s underachieved and no one could guard threes on a consistent basis. 2. Mayo needs the ball as much, if not more than Iguodala.
I suppose it’s better than nothing for Iguodala, but it’s a lateral move and feels like a trade just to make a trade, because Holiday-Mayo-Turner is probably a worse fit long-term than Holiday-Turner-Iguodala; Mayo’s just younger.
Thabeet showed flashes of being more impactful on the offensive end during his time at UConn. Sure he hasn’t showed that yet, but when we’re talking about ceiling, we’re talking as high as it can go. Also think he’ll become a smarter player than Sam was.
Turner once he gets stronger will be able to guard three’s consistently. He spent time on LeBron and didn’t get burned. If Thad can guard fours (which he usually can’t but does), Evan can guard threes.
While Mayo needs the ball more than Andre, he’s better creating for himself and even though he took a step backwards from last year, he still has a shot to be an elite shooting guard in the league. He has the tools to be at least an average defender – the hope is that Collins can bring it out of him.
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by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2011 6:48 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but explain how Jrue will have the ball in his hands, Evan will create for himself, yet there will be enough ball for Mayo to excel. I agree that Mayo is a worse fit than Iguodala. The big gripe about Mayo is that he doesn’t play off the ball enough.
If we are going to trade for a position of non-need like this, than I’d rather trade for Stephen Curry. He is a more dangerous off the ball pure shooter. And will likely still be able to get his points without being in ET and Jrue’s way as much as Mayo. There’s a reason why Mayo doesn’t have too much trade value. I appreciate the discussion we are having with these trade machine posts, but we are giving up too much in this trade.
Even Iguodala for Mayo straight up doesn’t make sense to me.
I think you’ve misrepresented Mayo’s game. Mayo is much more likely to be in spot-up and catch and shoot situations than Iguodala, and does far less off isolation situations.
26.7% of Mayo’s game is on spot-up situations, Iguodala’s at 17.1%
37.1% of Mayo’s half-court field goal attempts on are catch and shoot jumpers, Iguodala’s only at 20.9%.
12.4% of Mayo’s field goal attempts are on isolation attempts, Iguodala’s all up at 24.1%
65.5% of Mayo’s field goals are assisted, Iguodala’s at 56%
Mayo not playing off the ball enough is a myth. Iguodala has the ball in his hands more often than Mayo, both when trying to create for himself and when trying to create for others. Mayo IS more of an off the ball player. I think Mayo still gets a bad rap for being “ballhogging” from his high school days.
again, I’m not in love with Mayo’s overall game, but it’s because of his effectiveness, not his fit.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Jan 25, 2011 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Ok, so Mayo takes more attemps than Iguodala off the ball. But he also takes more attempts overall/36 minutes and doesn’t have the ball in crunch time on that team like Iggy does now….adding to Iggy’s ISO totals significantly. Also, apparently the concern that Mayo might not be that effective off the ball is still there for me because. his FG% is bad, while Iguodala’s seems to be rising as the team gets more comfortable together. What are Mayo’s FG%‘s on off the ball attempts compared to Iguodala? Are they that much better? Mayo’s field goal percentage overal on non 3 point attempts might be worse than Lou.
And saying Mayo is more effective on the ball than Iguodala doesn’t take into account assists. And your percentages don’t take into account the fact that he has more shot attempts than Iguodala per 36minutes.
And the defense….don’t even go there.
And the fast and slow break….Iguodala and ET are slowly becoming masterful together(albeit mostly in the 2nd quarter against backups) at turning good defense into good offense on the break. Take Lou out of that equation, and ET will get plenty of attempts and on the ball play in that quarter right now….even with Iguodala on the court…..see the Denver game as an example.
Don’t twist my argument. I’m not arguing FOR the trade. I’m not arguing Mayo’s effectiveness (although his first two years, he was a fairly efficient half-court player). I’m arguing the style of game Mayo plays.
Mayo uses up 1.7 isolation possessions per game this year, that’s 2.1 per 36 mins. Last year he used 2.3 possessions. Not field goals, possessions. That’s nothing. Lou Williams uses 4.6 per game. Jrue Holiday 3.2. Iguodala 3.9.
Again, I’m not arguing Mayo’s all-around game, nor his effectiveness (particularly this year). I’m arguing the style of play, and debating that he’s a high volume, ball dominant, focal point offensive player.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Jan 25, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
I think that basketball’s a team game and we should look at the situation in Memphis, Mike Conley’s been underwhelming and hasn’t really translated into a star guard in this league. Memphis was hoping for continued growth, didn’t get it and in all reality Conley may have hit his ceiling.
At 20 yrs old, Holiday’s better. And could get Mayo in better positions to be more effective.
by LeQuan Glover on Jan 25, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Another point, if Mayo has less than 10% more FG attempts assisted than Iguodala, yet shoots almost 30% more shots per minute played, doesn’t that mean he’s attemting more unassisted FG’s than Iguodala per minute played?
Maybe that can be attributed to Mayo’s role, which might be at times to create offense off the bench.
Look, I’m sleepy. I’ll concede this….Mayo might (emphasis) have a better shot at pairing up with Jrue and ET effectively in crunch time than AI9.
But the first 3 2/3 quarters of the game, I think having the trio of ET, Jrue, and AI9 all playing is more blessing than a problem…..and better than if you take out Iggy for Mayo….because defense, rebounding, size, the ability to match up with the opponent’s wings, and the break have to all be consisdered. Lou is more a problem paired with ET than Iguodala, and Mayo might have some Louish tendencies. This trade could absolutely blow up in the Sixers’ faces.
get Thabeet and Mayo not bad fit for future, but we receive Iggy (best player in team), and Thad Young, who shows very terrific basketball!!!!
my proposals- 1. get M.Gasol with S and T + Allen for Iggy + Speights
2. get Thabeet for less expensive lose of players.. Marreese + Dongaila
3. dont’s get Mayo because it is a very strong fit, he will have a bright future but we have Turner on the same spot… I dont think well about Turner on SF.. he is only 205 lbs., Iggy – 207 lbs. but Evan not so atletic like Iguodala! Evan shows Kobe Bryant’s stats in rookie year and ET very unselfish than Kobe in first years of his carier!
WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT – Trade Iggy for Paul George, M. Dunleavy and 1st round pick??? Iggy set on SG spot and it will be nice with Granger and good for Indy at all! And Larry Bird wants get good player!
In Summer we have expiring contracts of Kapono, Dongaila and we may sign good center.. may be back Dalembert!
Bill Simmons brought this one up and I like it the best of trades i’ve heard of. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=23l6q84 maybe try and get a pick as well
If Kaman will healthy it is very good trade! I like Aminu too)
by Эмиль Каиров on Jan 25, 2011 7:31 AM PST up reply actions
I like this one...
Only Houston might be more interesting if we can get Budinger Hill and a couple picks
or if the Nets want to shift gears and send us a couple nice 1strounders + Murphy (maybe + Morrow).
Of the three proposals, the Mavericks deal makes far and away the most sense to me. Jones could be our future combo guard off the bench who brings it on defense. Mahinmi looks like a better prospect than Thabeet.
Mayo I’d rank third behind Jrue and ET. And Mayo doesn’t like to rank third and be a role player on an average team. He’ll hinder ET’s development more than Iguodala.
Why? Mayo isn’t exactly a volume shooter, at 14.2 fga/36, and he doesn’t exactly initiate much of the offense, which fits in better with Jrue’s game.
I’m not in love with Mayo from a productivity standpoint, but from a hypothetical standpoint I don’t mind his game.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Jan 25, 2011 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
Those FG/36 estimating off the top of my head is only roughly 1.5 attempts less/36 than Lou takes, and about 3 more attempts/36 than Iguodala takes now, but without the stellar defense or the impressive ability that Iguodala and ET are starting to show as a pair on the break.
And while he probably has more ability than Iguodala from 3 land, as Iguodala improves they are shooting about the same catch and shoot 3 point percentage I’m guessing (although I don’t know the exact numbers).
Plus it seems that Mayo is much more effective in a feature role thus far in his career. There’s a reason that franchise has been trying to move either Mayo or Conley for years now. It isn’t just being cheap. I think they realized awhile back there isn’t enough ball to go around for both of them. If Mayo really was that effective or willing to play off the ball (which is what the Sixers need), I’m guessing they would be doing that in Memphis right now.
Those FG/36 estimating off the top of my head is only roughly 1.5 attempts less/36 than Lou takes, and about 3 more attempts/36 than Iguodala takes now
Possessions (which include turnovers, fouls drawn, assists, and field goal attempts, are a much better representation of how much a player has the ball. Hence why usage % is a much better stat. Lou’s about 1.8 fga’s per 36 minutes more, but overall a significantly higher usage player (27.8 to 21.8%). Last year Mayo was at 20.7%, which is right about league average. He’s not a high usage player.
I’m really not sure where the “high volume” or “feature player” thing is coming from. The guy doesn’t shoot a lot, doesn’t create a lot for himself or for others, and does play off the ball.
Read my post above.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Jan 25, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Obviously, Lou has the ball too much…won’t debate that. But you have to blame Collins as much as Lou at this point. Collins seems to want it that way for now.
Also that usage percentage, while a great stat, doesn’t tell the whole story there. Lou is the Backup point (sadly) and counted on highly for scoring. Mayo doesn’t play point off the bench, and isn’t given free reign like Lou as a scorer either. Lou has the ball more than Mayo partly by (stupid) design.
I’m sure Mayo isn’t as ball hoggish as Lou, but that usage percentage is a double edged sword. Mayo shoots almost as much as Lou but has a lower usage percentage, and hits at about the same overall FG%. Doesn’t that also mean that he is making less of an impact on the court than Lou in terms of assists and fouls drawn?
The feature player thing comes from Mayo shining most when he was a feature player. They are trying him as a role player now, and it isn’t working as well. That has to mean something. Why expect him to be an effective role player with the Sixers?
1) I’m arguing the amount of possessions used and whether that affects Jrue and Turner’s ability to have the ball in their hands offensively. I’m not arguing the diversity of his game. You’re the one who brought up his ball dominance, and showing that he doesn’t create (either for himself or for others) is to show his ball dominance and him holding back Turner and Jrue, not to show his overall value as a player.
2) Louis Williams has had a usage% of 24 or higher in 3 of the last 4 years, 27% or higher in two of those. OJ Mayo has had one 21.4% or under in both of the last 2 years. It’s not situational.
3) OJ Mayo was never a high usage player. Mayo isn’t losing effectiveness because his usage dropped, he lost usage and minutes because his effectiveness dropped. He averaged 14.7 shots/36 minutes during november this year, and struggled greatly.
His great drop in effectiveness caused him to stop being the focal point, not the other way around.
Mayo has never been a focal point. He took less shots per minute and had a lower usage percentage than Rudy Gay his rookie year, and was lower in both to Gay and Randolph last year.
I’m seriously questioning how much of this is on reputation and how many Grizzlies games you’ve seen the last 3 years.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Jan 25, 2011 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
I’ve seen a handful. None this year. The ones I saw….especially in his first couple seasons….Mayo liked to have the ball in his hands. That doesn’t mean he necessarily shot it every time. He took his fair amount of play ground style shot attempts. But he didn’t chuck it all game either(hence the reasonable usage number). I wouldn’t be surprised if he shot it then at a lower rate than he does now because he had a different role. It just meant the ball wasn’t in the hands as much of Conley and Gay because it was in Mayo’s.
It seems pretty clear to me that Mayo’s effectiveness dropped largely because he’s now 3rd banana to Gay and Conley, and is not as effective in that role. Maybe he is both willing and effective scoring soley off the ball, but Conley and Gay don’t do a good job of getting it to him. But Memphis fans rant about Mayo not playing off the ball. Add that to what I witnessed….albeit the last time I saw him play was a little over a year ago at this point….and that’s why I’m scared.
And that doesn’t take into account the defensive side of the ball or our current roster. Meeks and Lou would be kind of useless. And defensively, we’d drop off. So it seems like a lateral trade that could potentially be real bad if Mayo isn’t both very effective and very willing off the ball.
It seems pretty clear to me that Mayo’s effectiveness dropped largely because he’s now 3rd banana to Gay and Conley, and is not as effective in that role.
1.) Conley’s usage rate and shot attempts per game have only increased slightly from last season (0.3% and 0.6 shots).
2.) Mayo was the 3rd option behind Gay and Randolph last season just like he was at the start of this season.
I said that Conley is the type of point that likes to have the ball in his hands a good deal. That doesn’t eguate lock in step with a stat like usage percentage. His assist total has also increased by about 20%.
And I noticed Mayo’s numbers started to dip the second half of last season as Conley’s went up. I don’t think that was just coincidence.
Again the season before that, Conley’s numbers rose after the mid-season coaching change as Mayo started to look like the third wheel while his numbers started to decline. Two years in a row? Not just coincidence.
And again this isn’t based on just stats. This is also based on some games I’ve watched them play.
2009-10 Pre-ASB: 17.7 PPG, 45.0%/37.5%/82.9%, 3.8 RPG, 3.1 APG
2009-10 Post-ASB: 17.1 PPG, 47.3%, 39.7%, 3.8 RPG, 2.7 APG
His numbers sure did dip last season in the 2nd half.
I’m not sure I can express my displeasure with this trade without a string of expletives. Your solution to freeing up minutes and plays for Turner is by trading for a guy who plays exactly his same position, with roughly the same career usage as Iguodala, who works best with the ball in his hands, and who has always seemed to be an attitude problem? What? Thabeet and Allen are both awful players, and there’s no reason to gamble on trading for Thabeet and his bloated contract when he doesn’t belong anywhere near the NBA and shows no signs of skill any time soon. And trading Thad as well? This trade makes us clearly worse, gets us out of Iguodala’s contract only one year sooner, and doesn’t really cut salary at all. What does this trade accomplish? Taking us from mediocrity to absolute crap with no hope for at least 3 years?
NO thank you. OJ Mayo is not an NBA player. He is a great basketball player, but he is in the mold of a better lou williams. He would not mesh with this team, and not only that, but the guy is not team first. No, I haven’t liked OJ Mayo from the beginning due to his selfish play, and he hasn’t given me any reason to think that has changed since he has been in the NBA. No thank you. I’d rather keep Igoudala. Again, I am a person who believes they should trade Iggy, but not for just any young or expiring contract. No, need something to help the team.
He’s definitely an NBA player. I checked.
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by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2011 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Well it would make for a a team with a great pre-NBA pedigree :)
Jrue: H.S. POY
Mayo: HS POY/top 3 pick
Turner: #2 pick, NCAA POY
Brand: #1 Pick, NCAA POY
Thabeet: #2 pick
Lou: HS POY
Noce: Argentinian legend :)
http://www.acronymfinder.com/POY.html
I prefer: Partial/Pre Oriented Yarn, but I’m sure other will have a different fave.
What do you guys think about a trade for Andrei Kirilenko?
………………………………………………………………………………………………………
The Orioles Suck!
Play FESS More!!!
I love men!
HEH!
even though thabeet is a stiff
i would definitely do this trade, salary relief and a i still think oj mayo has a good chance to be a very nice player in this league
You wouldn’t… “no dice” is an expression meaning “no chance.” As in “no chance of this deal happening.”
by FooFighter1124 on Jan 28, 2011 1:38 AM PST up reply actions
He was being sarcastic.
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The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jan 28, 2011 6:20 AM PST up reply actions
Would the...
…10 game drug suspension for OJ Mayo affect people’s perceptions of this deal? :)

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