2010 Rotation: Who should start?
by LeQuan Glover on Sep 3, 2010 2:54 PM PDT
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PrintWith Training Camp coming up and pre-season and we're finally getting somewhat closer to NBA action I think we can have this discussion now.
Centers: Spencer Hawes, Marresse Speights, Tony Battie
I look at our center position two ways, one is that I really like Spencer Hawes. You might be confused since I've lamented how awful our front-court is but that's from a "win-now" perspective, which I don't have with this team. It's lamenting the pathetic half-assed approach to rebuilding. When you get the #2 pick in the draft, the team should be remade that wasn't done here. Meager moves doesn't amount to rebuilding. 1 draft pick, 1 trade and one worthless signing, woppie doo. But I like Hawes ability to pass out of the post and I like his mid-range shot, one thing about Hawes is his 1+ BPG a game. Sacto fans have said Hawes needs to work on conditioning and strength so I very much so doubt Hawes is the type to patrol the paint and box people out. So Hawes is a weak-side shotblocker. If only Brand were 3-4 years younger, Hawes and Brand would work great together.
The other way I look at it, is that if Hawes doesn't improve on his strength and conditioning you got 3 players at that rotation who frankly suck at post defense. Speights doesn't even try, and I've given up all hope and if he's even just a solid bench player I'll take that as an improvement over last year. Battie is worthless.
Power Forward: Elton Brand, Thaddeus Young, Marresse Speights
As I said above, if Brand were 3-4 years younger. If we could have the tenacious body and defender and strong shotblocker. Heck, he played solidly the year before untill he broke his shoulder. Hoping that he returns to that level bodes well for the sixers rebuilding and "win-now" approach. If Brand returns to a level of consistency, then perhaps during the trading deadline a veteran team looking to make a last second push might want to acquire Brand. On the other hand, if he's playing with that level of consistency and if the Sixers are doing well(and frankly, above my expectations) why not keep him? Brand will benefit from the spacing offensively that Hawes brings and he'll be able to station himself at the high post where he makes his 15-17 foot jumper. However, I don't have my hopes too high.
I love Thaddeus Young and what he brings, he can play either the 3 or the 4 but his TRUE position is the 3 and that's where we should be invested in him. Particularly, now that we lost the rebounding and post defense of Samuel Dalembert, Thad at the 4 is increasingly more difficult. Hawes's defensive effort will be quite crucial to the sixers in terms of the rotation. Read above for Speights.
Small Forward: Andre Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, Andres Nocioni, Jason Kapono.
I wonder how long it'll be before Nocioni, with his fragile ego will ask for a trade again? Because he's not beating Young out of the rotation short of drugging the guy :D. Nocioni will get likely 15-17 minutes, differing from the 3 to the 4. Kapono equally will most likely just sit on the pine and watch the season. The top-2 of the rotation is where a crucial problem lies. 1)Iguodala's overinflated contract and 2)Young's contract coming up for a renewal.
If we recall, last year there were talks for Iguodala and Stefanski said there wasn't anything on the table that made sense basketball wise. Then look at the Rockets and Trevor Ariza, pretty similar guy in terms of how they play. 6'6, athletic, good defender and not much else. His contract is significantly lesser then that of Iguodala's. Morey basically just dumped him(unless Courtney Lee comes out of nowhere). Billy King also refused to budge on Iguodala's contract demands, could this evidence that's adding up tell us the front-brasses don't think highly of Iguodala like Stefanski and Collins do?
Lastly, we haven't even given Thaddeus Young a chance. We gave him 1 full season as the starter at his proper position, ONE. How fair is that? And in that year, Thaddeus did some pretty nice things. He was a solid spot-up shooter, he was still the active player that he is. He gave our lineup some balance. How can we take a talented perimeter player out of the rotation, just because he's a little less developed at some of the other areas? Young's 6'8 with a monster wingspan and quick feet, I think Young can develop to be a pretty good defender. But, the development process is both with the team and the player and Young's been on the short end of the stick.
Shooting Guard: Jodie Meeks, Evan Turner, Lou Williams
For now and untill Turner proves himself as the minutes and games go on, Meeks is the starter. I've been very impressed with Jodie Meeks, his defense is solid. He doesn't rush shots, he's a natural scorer. He's the anti-Willie Green really. And if/when Turner comes along, perfect! Our SG position will be solved, especially with a talented guy like Lou Williams as the 3rd stringer.
Point Guards: Jrue Holiday, Lou Williams
As I said before, it's unrealistic to expect a Jrue Holiday clone out of nowhere. Very few guards on the market are good playmakers and incredibly fewer are good defenders. So lay off Lou Williams will ya guys? He had a great season last year. The mid-range shot, the 3pt shot all improved. He kept his turnovers down and his APG went up as well, and he was active on the boards(something we'll need from him some more). We have two lead-guards. This is our best position, why fuck with something good?
Hawes/Speights/Battie
Brand/Young/Speights/Nocioni
Iguodala/Young/Nocioni/Kapono
Meeks/Turner*/Williams
Holiday/Williams
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
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The way I see it, the way this team is going to win is with it’s perimeter players and primarily, we need to run a traditional NBA set sometime soon, that means two outside shooters. We know Iguodala’s a lost cause and he’s been promised that SF spot by the most stubborn GM in business: Ed Stefanski. So the shooting will have to come from the SG spot. Turner isn’t much of a perimeter threat yet and I’m worried about his NCAA tournament, less than impressed.
For now, Meeks starts untill Turner shows he’s worthy of being called the 2nd best player in the draft.
What about Iguodala makes him a ‘lost cause’?
If you are worried about Turner because of 3 games in the NCAA tournament where he played okay to good, you need to step back and take a look at the bigger picture.
He did not shoot particularly well and he turned the ball over but he filled the rest of the statsheet like normal. He much deserves the starting spot over Meeks. Who is more important to the franchise going forward?
Obviously...
Lou Williams (the future MVP!) should start (and play at least 43 minutes) at all five positions at once! He can play 1-on-5 better than any other player in the league.
Lou Williams and four of my doughy, middle-aged law partners could win the championship every year, if they would just let Lou be Lou….
I think the best team should start and that all spots will be open at the beginning of training camp. There may be some surprises as open competition for the starting Center and Power forward spots is very significant for the team going forward. I’m a big believer in match-ups and trying to have better size at each position.
I am more worried about defense and rebounding to start with, since I think the back-court and wing players will be talented enough to handle most of the scoring. Offensive post play is something all good teams have, however, and if we can’t score inside the Sixers won’t be very competitive.
Centers: Don’t forget Smith, who will be ahead of Battie in the rotation. I expect it will be a battle between Speights and Hawes to see who starts. I also expect Collins to try and mix and match 4’s and 5’s to see which tandem is the strongest, and which is the 2nd strongest to determine rotations and starters.
Power Forwards: Speights may end up here paired with either Smith or Hawes or he will be the Center paired with Brand. The point is I think Speights will emerge as a starter and whoever compliments him the best will be our best front line. Brand, Young, Nocioni. Young and Noce are a little too light to bang with the big front lines, and won’t be effective as defenders or rebounders, so it’s got to be Brand unless Speights/Hawes or Speights/Smith works better. Since Speights can’t play against himself this probably won’t be settled until the end of preseason, if by then.
Small Forwards: Iguodala, Young, Nocioni, Kapono. It will most likely be Iguodala, but if Collins is willing to be flexible, they’ll start Young here and put Andre in the back-court. Young is too good a player to not play 30 min. a game and if he has the handle to play the 3 that allows the Sixers to put their most talented players on the floor together.
2 Guards: Williams, Meeks, Turner. Rookies usually don’t start unless their ready, and if Turner can’t beat out Williams or Meeks in training camp, he won’t be ready and won’t start. I don’t expect him to break into the line-up until midway through the season. Williams is probably the best of the three at this point, and the only reason he wouldn’t start is because Collins will need him as a back-up point. Since Jrue is a good sized point, the Sixers could play Williams as a 2, and that is probably the line-up at the end of the game.
Point Guards: Holiday and Williams.
BTW: This roster doesn’t make sense, we don’t need Nocioni, Kapono or Battie on the team more than we need another point guard! I can’t believe that we’re going to head into the season with only 2 point guards and one of them your 2nd best option at the 2 spot, behind Andre Iguodala. For better flexibility, Collins will find that he needs another ball handler.
Best line-up guess: Speights, Brand, with Smith and Hawes as back-ups. Young at the 3, Iguodala at the 2, and Jrue at the point. Against smaller teams they will go Speights, Young, Iguodala, Williams and Holiday.
i think we only got 4 keepers on this squad for their own reason…..
evan turner – if he lives up to the hype and becomes a go to scorer, we got out number one in him
jrue holiday – proved last year hes got ALOT of room to improve….good shooter, good defender, hes out point guard of the furture
lou wlliams – i kno alota people will disagree but hes a pretty good BACKUP on a good team and thats where we could use him when we get our shit together, not a distributor but a very stong scoring kick off the bench
spencer hawes – again alo wont agree but i think hes got the makings of a great BACKUP center….obvisouly u need a big man that plays like a big man to be ur starter but hawes can be that strech guy off the bench and just offers a different look and with him off the bench we can have a different look when he comes in
Billy King also refused to budge on Iguodala’s contract demands, could this evidence that’s adding up tell us the front-brasses don’t think highly of Iguodala like Stefanski and Collins do?
Coach K thinks highly enough of Iguodala that he selected him to the team over the “similar” Ariza and is starting him over Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, et all. Of course Coach K isn’t as smart as you are though.
Perhaps it is you that is underrating Iguodala the same way that “we” and “underrating” Lou Williams (even though we have posts comparing him to Monta Ellis and Aaron Brooks who are both highly regarded by the general public.)
Coach K(Jordan) is also starting the career hybrid forward Lamar Odom at center, in addition the very talented Javale McGee was cut. He’s the last person I want to discuss basketball with on a championship-caliber level.
If the Indiana Pacers are a playoff team and the Sixers are a playoff team, Iguodala VS Granger for the all-star game, Granger wins everytime :).
by LeQuan Glover on Sep 6, 2010 4:49 AM PDT up reply actions
But the Pacers aren’t a playoff team. They suck and don’t have a lot of shooters so a guy like Graingers’ stats are inflated. No one cares to guard him because no matter what he does the games aren’t close. Iguodala on the other hand, is the key to the Sixers success, other teams know if they can slow him down, the rest of the team falls apart.
Everytime you criticize him someone comes up with objective stats to show that he’s better than you indicate. For what Iguodala produces he is not overpaid and no one on the roster outplays him on the floor. What will it take for you to accept that Andre is a decent player and not a major problem on the Sixers roster?
No, but they did acquire a PG of the future in Darren Collison, finally shaping up their position there. I figure with another top-5 draft pick and cap-space, in 2011 the Pacers will be a playoff team. Granger wasn’t first known as a scorer, Pacers fans originally raved about his defense, Granger is a complete player on both ends of the floor.
So, they don’t care to guard Granger because no matter what he does the games aren’t close, yet on the other hand the inferior Iguodala is a key guy? Think what you wish.
Rickot: Restructure his contract, you just called him a decent player. Decent players aren’t paid 12 million+ a year, hell Morey just dumped Ariza, whose contract is a lot more ideal. A roleplayer getting paid Iggy’s money, is exactly the reason we’re not winning titles anytime soon.
by LeQuan Glover on Sep 6, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL
I’m sorry, there’s a lot to LOL about, but the thought that you know more about basketball than coach K literally just made me laugh out loud.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
Derek: Would you start 6’10, 230 Lamar Odom at CENTER in ANY competition? Nevermind Worlds? If you get high performance out of Chandler/Love in limited minutes, great. But wouldn’t it be better to use our size to our advantage and literally shut down virtually any opposing offense?
Lamar Odom is NOT Rasheed Wallace, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitski(IE: A perimeter shooting big). He doesn’t bring anything special, it’s just stupid Derek. Kevin Love makes 10X more sense if you want to play a guy out of position. I’m sorry, he may be a great college coach but it’s easy to sit on your ass with NBA talent.
What exactly did the 92 coach have to do with the dream team? Nothing, Coach Jordan(K) doesn’t have to do crap at all, his job is to look good.
by LeQuan Glover on Sep 7, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I see your ignorance on the game of international basketball hasn’t improved since your ricky rubio comments in the past.
Yes, Lamar Odom is a great center for international basketball.
Obviously, all Coach K has to do is show up and look good. Just ask Larry Brown and George Karl.
(I’ll give you time to google that and figure out what I mean, since I know you’re not educated enough to know beforehand).
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
If Odom was on the Sixers, he’d be their starting Center. He’s a little undersized for an NBA Center, but just fine for the World’s, depending on how well he handle’s the Russians. IS he the best possible pick out of all the players who could play that position? NO, of course not, but he’s the best option coach K has.
As of yet, no team has dominated on the inside against the USA. The USA isn’t posting up big players inside, but why should they when they can force turnovers at will and beat the other team down the floor? The shorter 3 point distance is making the game easy for our shooters.
The USA team isn’t dominant at every position, but only a few players on each of the other teams can stay with them. Some of the ones who do well are NBA players or have at least gotten a look from an NBA team. If Gasol was playing, you’d rather have someone better than Odom at Center, but he isn’t, so it’s not a problem. Odom is rebounding and defending the position well. He’s serving in that role for the US team and doing a good job at it. He’s not as big as some of the other players, but he’s more of an athlete. Watch how he does against the bigger Russian center on Thursday and then tell me how he did, and why Love or Chandler would have done better!
Sure, the smart move is to start Andre over Chapu...
But it’s the wrong one.
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
I’ll give you five bucks if you can formulate a reasonable argument on here that doesn’t involve your man crush (chapu) in any way.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
What's the point?
"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"
by chapuforyou on Sep 10, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
ou’s numbers as a 6th man:
23.3 MPG 42.4% 35.93P% 3.6 FTA-78.3% 1.0 SPG 1.6 TPG 1.6 PF 2.1 RPG 3.2 APG 11.5 PPG
23.7 MPG 39.8% 28.63P% 4.8 FTA-79.0% 1.0 SPG 1.9 TPG 1.6 PF 2.0 RPG 3.0 APG 12.8 PPG
Total:
23.5 MPG, 41.1% 32.33p% 4.2 FTA-78.7% 1.0 SPG 1.7 TPG 1.6 PF 2.0 RPG 3.2 APG 12.1 PPG
Lou’s numbers as a starter:
33.7 mpg 47.4% 35.73p% 3.6 FTA-82.2% 1.4 SPG 1.8 TPG 1.8 PF 3.2 RPG 4.3 APG 15.7 PPG
Oh BTW, Lou severely outplayed his prior 2 years as a benchie when he returned to the
bench, averaging 11/4 in 24 MPG on 45% shooting.
Lou’s MPG increased by 10, his FG percentage went up 6.3%, his free throws 2.5%, his
turnovers virtually stood still as he averaged over a rebound and nearly an assist
a game higher.
Lou had struggles late in the season, but in the last 5 or so games it looked like
he was bouncing back from the latest bout with injuries, coach Jordan and the rotation.
Although you’ve taken snide remarks and egotistical chest thumping, I’ll let
the stats tell the story, the story as I saw it and how it actually unfolded.
Courtesy: ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports.
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