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Fagan: Day 1 of Sixers Training Camp

Kate Fagan's post on Day 1 of Sixers training camp is a must-read. Below are a few quotes and tidbits I found interesting, along with my commentary. 

Star-divide

Collins was running through some 5-on-0 drills and he initially used a "starting" lineup of PG Jrue Holiday, SG Iguodala, SF Thaddeus Young, PF Elton Brand, and C Spencer Hawes. His second unit was PG Lou Williams, SG Evan Turner, SF Jodie Meeks, PF Trent Plaisted, C Marreese Speights. A few minutes into that second unit's time, Collins substituted F Jason Kapono for Meeks and you got the impression he intended Kapono to run that spot all along.

Not what I expected the rotations to be -- no Turner or Speights in the starting lineup. Hawes starting at center isn't much of a surprise, nor should it be much of a problem. But Turner playing with the second unit? That's surprising. You may think I'm overreacting to the first day of training camp, until you read this quote ...

When asked about playing Iguodala at the shooting guard, Collins said he feels that's what's best for the team because of the roster. If he starts Iguodala at the small forward, that pushes both Thaddeus Young and Nocioni to the bench. Since Collins feels Young and Nocioni are two of the team's better players, he said it wouldn't make sense for the team to have both players on the bench at the start of the game.

Wait a second. Did Collins basically just say that either Thad or Nocioni will be in the starting lineup? I think he did. That means "The Villain" will start the season on the bench. I may be reading too much into the quote, but it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

"You can talk a lot of basketball with [Hawes], which is a lot of fun. I had a conversation with him about how the defense will be playing me and how he can make certain passes from the elbow. He has a lot of input so we can relate a whole lot, we can adjust. He's kind of like Peyton Manning. He's able to do some of the same things as far as being a big man who can deliver passes ... really had a great practice with Spencer and I can tell we're going to be connecting a whole lot."

Andre just compared Spencer Hawes to Peyton Manning. Does that add more or less weight to his Jrue-Payton comparison?

"I hope [Nocioni] becomes a 20-minute a night guy for us," Collins said.

NoceOne may need be hosed down. Also, Noce playing 20 minutes may be a sign Collins cares more about winning 43 games than developing youth.

"There was about 200 yards to go and [Evan Turner] and Jrue were running neck and neck and Jrue tried to make a move on him and he won. I said to our coaches, ‘The best thing that happened was he won that mile.' Because it gave him a feeling of accomplishment."

So much for being out of shape. I like the idea of a quiet competition between the two.

"[Evan is] a facilitator, right now. He's a guy who loves to get other guys involved. And that's what I want him to be right now. And as he goes along, I want him and Jrue and Dre and those guys to play together and all of a sudden he gets more of a scoring mentality."

Which explains him playing with the second unit, where he'll able to facilitate for Lou, Kapono and Speights.

[Marreese Speights] had a great summer. He's so proud of how hard he's worked, his body, how good of shape he's in. He ran the mile on Monday in 6:23, I dare to mention there's no way he could have ran 8 minutes last year. With Mo, everything with him is his conditioning. Because when he's conditioned, his legs are strong, when his legs are strong, his offense is good, and when his offense is good, it helps the other phases of his game. Last year he tweaked his leg, got heavy, got out of shape. The guy can score in his sleep. I'm not worried about that. For us, he has to defend."

Emphasis is mine. I'm happy as long as everyone's clear on what Speights needs to do. If he becomes an average defender his value sky-rockets. As for his 6:23 mile, that's very impressive. 

Speezy sez!

"... Nobody had a role out there last year. We were just out there playing Princeton. It was a disaster last year, so we're not going to talk about that."

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The difference between the first day last year and this one is like night and day. Collins is already seeing things my way, he knows he needs Andre at the two so Thad and/or Noce have a place on the floor. Collins is interested in winning first and developing talent 2nd. He has so many pieces to work with in Hawes, Speights, Young, Williams and Turner.

The competition aspect of this is going to be fascinating, the line-ups we see now are an experiment. The starting lineup for the regular season will probably have Young at SF. But you may see Speights instead of Hawes.

The line-up at Center and PF is a big question mark, it makes me wonder why the Sixers didn’t draft one this summer.

by RickoT on Sep 28, 2010 3:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Collins is interested in winning first and developing talent 2nd

How could anyone think that this is a good thing?

by yosoysean on Sep 28, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not upset about Thad starting at SF since I still think he can be a good player but didn’t Collins say when he was first hired that he was going to play him as a PF because he thought he could be like Rashard Lewis?

by The Legend on Sep 28, 2010 4:11 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't

Really disagree with keeping Turner with Lou etc. to start the year if that’s the way they go. He definitely looked more comfortable with the ball in Summer League, and so if he gets comfortable first in the NBA in a role he understands, then you can more easily expand from there. Plus, I like a trio of Lou-Turner-Speights from an offense perspective.

You just have to hope it doesn’t result in bizarre coddling like Eddie with Jrue last year.

by Slizeezyc on Sep 28, 2010 4:28 PM PDT reply actions  

I trust Collins’ handle of rookies much more than EJ’s. I don’t have too much of a problem with Evan not starting initially either. I thought I would, but what he’s doing seems to make sense. I’d still like to see him start sooner rather than later, unless Thad is absolutely killin’ it at SF.

by Jordan Sams on Sep 28, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

Evan Turner just isn’t a starter now, if you wanna win. He’s played on the ball his entire college career and his TPG of 4.4 are downright unacceptable. In a bench role, as a sixth man with 20-25 MPG, you get all of the benefits without the downsides.

We only saw some five games, but he was generally ineffective. In the full-court and in the half-court. The only saving grace was him getting to the line. And it looks like it’ll take time for him to translate.

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 28, 2010 4:57 PM PDT reply actions  

Turner’s Turnover rate is nearly equal to Holiday’s from last season. Obviously the competition is different but I am not that concerned about the turnovers right now.

by JoshuaR on Sep 28, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

College turnover rate is universally ignored

Because it means virtually nothing. The summer league means even less.

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by Michael Levin on Sep 28, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Night Practice First Team

Jrue, Kapono, Thad, Brand, Hawes (Iguodala not participating)

This makes me think Collins just has ET on the 2nd squad for reps – no way he’d have Kapono in there over him in a real game situation

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers // @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Sep 28, 2010 5:22 PM PDT reply actions  

got the lineup from fagan’s twitter

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers // @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Sep 28, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

You need spacing, always. If Collins wants to win, guys like Kapono and Nocioni need to get minutes. Sadly enough, this team ain’t at the point where it has guys like Eric Gordan, etc. Wingmen who can legitimately start 30+ mpg and shoot.

Turner/Iguodala just don’t mix, especially at this stage of Turner’s development. Now training camp+ pre-season is like a whole month. But it’ll take some games and time for Turner.

Collins said that fans expect too much, we got spoiled with Iguodala playing right away. Calm the expectations.

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 28, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

WHAT THE HECK

Why is Turner starting and LOU NEEDS TO START AT LEAST 25 MPG what is with this Nocioni crap???

"Shoutout to Lebron, d-Wade, Joe Johnson, and chris bosh for trying to create a NBA2k team. Lol. (they would win 80 games)" - Louis Williams

by LouWilliamsMVP on Sep 28, 2010 6:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Ugh...

Ughughughughughughughughugh.

I know this is one of those things like how Turner’s five bad games in summer league become a major indicator that he is a forever bust before he ever plays in a real game. But still. Let me indulge my paranoid fan thing for a minute. This just confirms every fear I ever had about Collins and why he’s here. He’s here to win 42 games so the front office can show progress without having to do anything significant. He will play decidedly mediocre veterans over young players, because he only trusts veterans. Which means significant minutes for the likes of Nocioni and Kapono, because they’re veterans, rather than Meeks and even Turner, because they’re young players.

This team is never, ever going to make a real improvement while upper management is satisfied with being a .500 team.

Seriously, I can at least make a case for Nocioni to see the floor every once in a while, but Kapono should be so far down at the end of the bench he should be looking up at Tony Battie’s minutes. He’s terrible.

I am going to be really, really pissed off if they sit around for the next three years waiting for Elton Brand to come off the books so they can waste the cap space on the next Elton Brand, and the draft hasn’t yielded a single significant player in that time, and there are no decent young players on the team, because they’re either sitting at the end of the bench waiting to be “seasoned” or on other teams.

Ugh.

by dweebowitz on Sep 28, 2010 6:16 PM PDT reply actions  

It’s disconcerting that Turner isn’t playing with the first team, no matter what the rationale.

by wilsonx on Sep 28, 2010 7:12 PM PDT reply actions  

When he talks about the roster and Turner being with the second unit it just feels like rumors he wanted Favors or Cousins is more truthful. It wouldn’t surprise me if Collins is the one pushing to trade Turner in a deal for Melo.

by xEgan on Sep 28, 2010 7:33 PM PDT reply actions  

Well hose me down and call me steamy!

Noce getting 20mpg is more than what I hoped for. Seriously, 15mins was the number I was hoping for. But 20mins? Wow.

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Sep 28, 2010 10:16 PM PDT reply actions  

“Since Collins feels Young and Nocioni are two of the team’s better players, he said it wouldn’t make sense for the team to have both players on the bench at the start of the game.”

Ugh. Fail. I’ve already lost confidence in Collins. Maybe I remember his stint with the Wizards too well.

by Rujasu on Sep 29, 2010 7:05 AM PDT reply actions  

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