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Lou Williams-the story of underappreciation


It's kind of remarkable to me, we drafted this project with the 45th pick a few years ago and is frankly, King's best pick.  He's improved virtually every year he's been in the league and he's ONLY 23 years old! He's been mentored by Maurice Cheeks, Andre Miller, Allen Iverson and now Doug Collins.  Lou Williams had an outstanding year last year.   He played within the flow of the offense, much like Miller and Cheeks carried themselves and when the opportunity presented itself, like A.I he exploded on the court.   Despite the impressive performance by Lou Williams last year, he apparently wins no, zero, zip points from the Sixers community.

 

The same thoughts that the RealGM Sixer community had and some here at Libertyballers had were: Lou doesn't fit.  Why?  Because he's not a Jrue Holiday clone?   We fell in love with Holiday so much, that we immediately wanted a clone of him in the back-court.   Hey, I won't argue against the reasoning I mean Jrue's a heck of a player but 1) If such a clone were available I imagine we'd get him if we could and 2) Such a clone isn't available. 

 

If the draft were done over again, I can't see why Tyler Hansbrough, Earl Clark and Austin Daye are picked ahead of him.  I've argued time and time again that Jrue is a top-5/8 pick if the draft is done over again, we're as lucky as hell that we got Jrue. Another one ain't falling in our laps, kapeach?

 

I think we're as lucky as hell that we have Lou Williams and we made the right decision. We groomed him properly, and Lou himself takes his career very seriously and he comes from such humble roots.  I like how Lou knew his weaknesses and he tried to compensate for them.  He brought effort and intensity to the court, something very few sixers did last season.  I like how, as Jrue stepped up his game and took the starters spot, Lou isn't sulking. He's reaching for higher platforms.

 

My question with Lou was if you couldn't start, can you be a part of a great 3-man rotation?

-Doug Collins, on the Sixers back-court

 

I seem to recall a Libertyballers poster made a few posts pointing out how Aaron Brooks and Monta Ellis benefit from playing so many minutes and getting so many more touches then Lou does, not that they are actually better then him.   Is Lou the 45th pick in the draft if we re-do that draft?  If I'm not mistaken, Marvin Williams was the 2nd overall pick in that draft and Lou played heads and tails above Marvin this past season. 

 

I love Lou's game, the effort, the intensity and the will to win are all there.  He's an under-rated and under-looked part of that 2008 playoff team. You can argue that a big reason for the Orlando loss, was Lou hesitating in that series.   IMO, Nocioni, Green and even Brand(one poster I read called him the "Albatross") are far more wastes of roster space. Oh and can't forget Tony Battie.

 

Lou has value to the sixers, whether it's as the starter or as a 30+ MPG impact player will be decided at the end of training camp :). 

Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.

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Iguodala was an easy pick, there was little to no investment in that pick. King could sit on his ass and Iggy would still be what he is. Kyle Korver similarly to Iguodala, already had most of his skills. Easy transition.

They had to put in work and effort with Lou Williams, and Lou himself had to put in that same work and effort and obviously they were on the same page. That’s why Lou and the whole team for that matter hated Jordan, because they weren’t on the same page.

I also believe Iguodala’s not that much of a better player then Lou Williams, Iggy’s play thus far in the olympics speaks volume about the kind of player he is on a title contender.

by LeQuan Glover on Aug 28, 2010 2:29 PM PDT reply actions  

I would love to hear why you think Lou is anywhere near the same level as Iguodala…for comedic purposes, of course.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Aug 29, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay, let’s put it this way: Iguodala is NEVER a consistent player. Taking the current olympics thus far, Iggy finally has a good offensive showing 11 pts on 5-7 shooting. BUT, on 4 fouls and not nearly the same disruptive defense. Iguodala’s the third wing based on his performance. Just barely above Rudy Gay, who on the Olympics thread I concured with the rest of the league and said he’s the most overpaid player.

If Iguodala were worth his paycheck, he’d be a constant, a consistent. He’s not. If you add in Bryant, Wade into the equation, Iguodala might be the 6th or 7th best wingman on team USA. Equating this to the NBA, Iguodala isn’t even a borderline all-star.

He’s our over-rated Mike Miller. A 6’6 specialist that does many things, but he isn’t ever going to be an impact player. And with Daly gone, he’s the second highest paid sixer(to E.B). To put this in perspective, I think it’s highly probable Gordan Hayward and Paul George have very similar careers to Iguodala.

So, can Lou be a borderline all-star? Yes. There are alot of talented PG’S, but Lou stacks up just fine to them. Lou has a streaky 3pt shot, but at least it’s a 3pt shot period. If you have a 3pt shot, that’s a great tool for a perimeter player in today’s NBA. His ability to get to the bucket and draw contact is also very valuable. He added rebounding to his game and stresed he wants to improve even more on defense. If he’s an average defensive player and a solid rebounding guard, there’ll be TEN TIMES the demand for him then teams will call up for the glorified Mike Miller.

by LeQuan Glover on Aug 29, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

He’s our over-rated Mike Miller

huh? how? who?

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers // @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Aug 29, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, I can see now why you are so opposed to advanced statistics – that being, because if you were to actually look at them, you would see how incorrect your visual observations really are.

I’ll do you a favor and list some websites that may be of use to you if you ever want to come back from the dark side:
basketball-reference.com
hoopdata.com
82games.com
basketballprospectus.com
…Just to name a few.

Most importantly, look into the stats that show what Iguodala can do on the court, not what mis-informed sixers fans think he is supposed to do ie, be a primary scoring threat.
Namely,
- assist to turnover ratio
- opponent PER
- TS%
- DRR
- Win shares – both offensive and defensive
While you are at it, look at some of the best players in the league by position for a comparison.

Now in regards to Lou Williams, he is not a starting PG. A starting PG needs to lead the offense and be a pass-first player. Lou is a shoot-first player who looks to create for himself. This will not aid any team if he is put in a starting role. It didn’t help last year, and Jrue took over as he should have. Jrue is a pass-first PG who can also defend, and as we’ve seen, he can shoot the three. Lou is undersized, and currently lacks the discipline to defend other starting PGs. I’m not sure what you were watching last season, but if you happened to be paying attention, you would’ve seen Lou get burned consistently.

Also, for the record, it doesn’t really matter that other mis-informed fans agree with you about Iguodala being over-paid. He’s not over-paid. He is not making a max salary, and, when comparing him to people like Joe Johnson, he’s not making anything close to it. Lastly, it’s not really his fault that he was offered that contract. It just shocks me how little thought people can give to a particular situation like that.

Basically, I disgree with everything you say, and instead of ripping on you, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and decided to explain my reasoning. You can take it anyway you like, but if you want people to start respecting your opinion on here, please do a little research first.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Aug 29, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

As our 2nd highest paid player and the guy everyone considers the “man”, it’s not misinformed sixers fans, that’s the role this organization decided to put Iguodala in. A role he failed miserably in, which is why we drafted Turner, no?

Here’s a name: Tony Parker, he’s not exactly Chauncey Billups but he got the job done, no? There are two types of lead guards, the pure points like a Kidd, like a Holiday, etc. Then there are the scoring guards. Heck, Billups is still a scoring guard, just more mature then from his younger days.

If you expect Lou to be a pure point lead guard, then your going to be dissapointed. Lou played exceptionally well, and he did put our team in a position to win games. Our team defense however, suffered tremendously and you can’t blame the PG switch, because Miller is a below average defender. I’ll reference the Washington game. Same one in which Lou broke his jaw. Dude came back and led us to a rally. It was the Lou and Jrue show.

That heart and intensity was rarely shown throughout the season, leading to Donyell Marshall constantly ripping them for how soft they were. Do you think Lou and Jrue were soft that year? Me neither.

by LeQuan Glover on Aug 29, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Come back when you understand the difference between man defense and team defense. Until then, as I said before, and everyone else on here agrees, you are hopeless.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Aug 30, 2010 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

As someone who’s dealt with LeQuan for years, you just wasted a heck of a lot of time.

by Derek Bodner on Aug 30, 2010 4:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Surprisingly, that took less than five minutes to type out. However, I certainly wish I had that time back.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Aug 30, 2010 7:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Did you just ignore everything I pointed out and attacked me? Figures. Well I’m sure Speights is much more important then Lou, despite being a severely inferior player.

Whether you guys wanna face it or not, this team sucks. And the only way that changes is if Turner immediately translates and puts up 16+ PPG. But heck, those touches have gotta come from somewhere. Oh yes, Iguodala’s production will go down, resulting in an immovable contract.

Is that our goal? to try and build a team with two average players on terrible contracts? It’s not too late to find a suitor for Iguodala and save ourselves from the worst(and most likely) case scenario. As a losing team with awful contracts on hand.

by LeQuan Glover on Aug 30, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

hopeless

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Aug 30, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

What?

"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain

by soman319 on Aug 31, 2010 7:31 PM PDT reply actions  

I agree FULLY

Lou needs more APPRECIATION for all the hard work and talent he brings to the team! Maybe if he would be given more of a leadership role this team would be able to win more than 41 games for once! LOU IS THE MAN!!!!!

by LouWilliamsMVP on Sep 2, 2010 11:20 AM PDT reply actions  

Talent wins in the NBA, what these guys don’t understand is that if Jrue Holidays were available everywhere, teams would get them. Guys at Holiday’s level are usually the first 10-picks in the draft. Williams, Rondo and Rose were all top-draft picks, with that same kind of body and potential Holiday has. In Holiday and Williams, we have two excellent lead guards. We’re not going to develop that opportunity because we’re invested in Iguodala……….

Williams, Holiday, Turner, Young, Hawes and heck I’ll even throw Speights a bone, maybe he’ll actually develop. But these guys will only develop if they get playing time. So when you got Iguodala and Nocioni on this roster, it’s a problem. It’s not competition, it’s stealing their minutes.

Trading Iguodala will be the best move this franchise did, it opens the door for the young players to improve and try and become the leader of this team.

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 2, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

rondo was the 21st pick of the 2006 draft – but i guess since you didn’t see it with your own two eyes it doesn’t matter

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers // @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Sep 2, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nope, despite what your fancy shmancy websites say, this guy saw Rondo drafted top ten with his own two physical eyes. Obviously you weren’t paying attention as well as he did.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 2, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lay off me, the 2006 draft was one of the worst drafts thus far in the 21st century, it rivals the 2000 draft class. How am I supposed to remember Rondo at 21?

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 3, 2010 4:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

You do what the rest of us do – don’t just write stuff on here without taking the time to research it first.

If you want people to respect your opinion, you can’t just talk out of your @&& like you tend to do so often.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 3, 2010 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, did he say williams was a top 10 pick as well, or did I read this wrong?

Williams, Rondo and Rose were all top-draft picks, with that same kind of body and potential Holiday has. In Holiday and Williams, we have two excellent lead guards.

by Derek Bodner on Sep 7, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

My bad for using last names only, Williams as in Deron Williams on the Utah Jazz.

The point was that, those guys are very good guys and they were mostly drafted high(with the noted exception of Rondo). Holiday has a similar potential level to those guys, expecting a clone is next to impossible.

Most of those “clones” either have limited skill, upside and are old in age. We’re lucky to have an efficent scoring guard off the bench in Lou Williams who had a very good year and he’s only 23 and wants to get better.

Why do we wanna dump this guy for peanuts? One of the few talent guys on this roster.

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 7, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

When you write about guys with limited skill, I’m not sure how you fail to mention Lou Williams. I’m also not sure how you’re comparing a 23 year old with five years of experience in the NBA to a 19 year old with one year of experience.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 7, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not comparing them at all, the whole point of this post is that Lou is very valuable and he proved he was a starter last year. Oh wait, I forgot Lou Williams is the reason we were a lottery team, total scrub :D.

Lou Excels at the skills he has: scoring. Guys with limited upside are like Brevin Knight, servicable but if he’s your starter or back-up you must have serious talent to make up for it. Lou also put his body in the way and did a nice job rebounding.

If you so-called intellectuals actually watched the ball game, you wouldn’t think a scrub like Speights has upside.

by LeQuan Glover on Sep 8, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lou Excels at the skills he has: scoring.

He is a great scoring option off the bench. That is his game; that is where he is finding and will find success in the future.

"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain

by soman319 on Sep 9, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

" Lou is very valuable and he proved he was a starter last year."

Incorrect. Since you seem to not understand general logic, let’s try this on your level…

Why will Lou not be a starter this upcoming season?

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Sep 11, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

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