Off-Topic: Team USA and is Coach K kidding the country?
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 27, 2010 2:33 AM PDT
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PrintA front-line of Chandler/Love isn't that bad of a front-court, though ideally I'd like a 3rd big man not named Lamar Odom, who brings mostly the same things Iguodala does. Why isn't Javale McGee on this team? We need more size up-front then we do another hybrid guard. In Granger, Durant, Billups we have some of the best shooters in the league, Gordan and Curry are unneccessary.
But Coach K's decisions are done and we'll have to live with them. Adjusting to the new reality of our Team-USA, in a motion offense, I expected Kevin Love to get the bulk of the minutes out of our front-court. But that's not what happened. Kevin Love, a very good passing and post big man is NOT getting the bulk of the minutes at the 4-5 spots. No, neither is Chandler either. Infact, they're both getting pushed by the way side.
http://www.usabasketball.com/mens/national/2010_MNT_Tour_Stats_2010_08_21.html
Kevin Love plays a disgraceful 7 minutes a game, SEVEN! What's the point of having a really great rebounder, if your not going to play him Coach K? Chandler, very equally is getting a whooping 13 minutes a game!
Next up, Greece was the final pre-season game. This game is where you SHOULD have your rotation roughly figured out, so there's no excuses for Coach K to fall on, so let's see what "Coach" K thinks about the game of basketball:
http://www.usabasketball.com/photos/10_mwc_exh_4_box.pdf
For those who didn't wanna click on the link and see the horror, this is the chickenscratch Coach K calls a ball-club:
G:Chanucey Billups
C:Lamar Odom(No, I'm not kidding you)
Neverminding the horror a 6'10, hybrid 4 is starting at the 5. How about synergy? Synergy is the positive mixture of elements or in this case: people. Lamar Odom and Andre Iguodala are NOT synergetic(SP?). They both need the ball in their hands, both are excellent rebounders. Neither are great shooters, though Odom has been average or slightly below average from 3 for most of his career. Essentially, they are clones. WHY are they both in the starting lineup Coach K? Why is Odom your starting center, when you have an NBA starter RIGHT THERE in Tyson Chandler?
Kevin Durant has been admirable, he's easily been team USA'S best player and is quickly evolving into LeBron James-status as being a guy so dominate, the rule book is meaningless when it comes to him. Nevertheless, could we please try and keep players at their original positions(Durant being a 3-man)?
Now for the back-court: Chauncey Billups CAN play 2-guard Coach K, but I think you'd like to know that Billups's career took off under Larry Brown, as he settled into the role of a scoring point guard. Billups is NOT a spot-up man, nor should he be relegated to one under your fantasy world. He is a playmaker, he is a lead guard. So is Derrick Rose. Start one, NOT both.
Okay Big mouth, what would you do:
Putting my money where my mouth is, I'll take Coach K's Motion Offense and I'll create a starting lineup and rotation
By Position:
PG: Chanucey Billups is a lead-guard and frankly, he's one of the best. He hits shots in the clutch, he's a terrific defender, he's been a champion and he's elevated the play of his team-mates. It's being rather unfair I admit to both Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose. But I love Billups's experience if I want to win the gold. Could I win the gold with Westbrook and Rose? Absolutely, but if I come to a close game Billups still gets the end-game ball.
Stephen Curry has been proving thus far how much of a roleplayer he is, of course nothing less then expected from nellie-ball. Baron Davis made those 2007 warriors, not Ellis, not Nelson and not that stupid system. A studly but inconsistent PG did.
SG: Granger has proven to be effective regardless of which wing position he plays. This is because he has an outside shot. But outside of being a terrific offensive player, Granger was first known for his defense and his desire to emulate former pacer Ron Artest. Eric Gordan has been very good, but his size just hurts him. On a team like ours, with a bunch of star players. Some very good players have to adjust to new and profound roles.
SF: Some would argue that with such profound shooting like Billups/Granger, I could go with the defensive stud Iguodala(9 steals thus far). But Durant himself has 7 steals and is averaging 7 rebounds himself. I've long argued Iguodala is an excellent roleplayer and I can truly appreciate him as the fantasy coach of team USA. He's the second stringer, with Odom getting minutes over Gay.
PF: With all the love I've given Kevin Love, Lamar Odom still has the starters position. Reasoning? I like to have two playmakers on the floor. Plus I like hybrid forwards and the matchup advantages they can give me. That said, you can expect Kevin Love to get more like 15-20 MPG in my system. Rudy Gay is truly the most overpaid player in basketball, way to go Memphis.
C: Tyson Chandler is clearly the starter here, his shotblocking and rebounding are required any time you want to run a system of perimeter oriented players. We sadly have no one close to a back-up for him, thank you Coach Jordan(I mean Coach K). So instead, we'll have to do with Love backing up Chandler.
Billups/Rose/Westbrook
Granger/Gordan/Curry
Durant/Iguodala/Odom/Gay
Odom/Love/Gay
Chandler/Love
For taking ineffective one-dimensional players like Rudy Gay and Stephen Curry out of the Team USA equation, you can thank yours truly later. WHY don't I have this coaching job?
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
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I would like to point out that with this line-up, USA beat tournament favorite Spain in Madrid and they beat darkhorse Greece by nearly 20 points. They also averaged 11 more rebounds than their opponents and had 6 more blocked shots than their opponents. Your criticism is unfounded. I am pretty sure Coach K knows more about what he’s doing than you do.
I’d like to point out that in that game, Spain came back. Not so much of a concern, Spain is a title contender. Untill you realize they scored 20+ in the 4th! I mentioned before how Kevin Durant is evolving into LeBron James-caliber stature, his play is a large reason for the rebounds.
Additionally, keep in mind Greece was missing it’s most talented big man and I do believe that will make 20 pts of difference. Defensively, Coach Jordan(K) doesn’t believe in playing his big men. Lamar Odom at freaking center. Find a coach or an analyst that will put Odom at center and you won a million bucks!
There’s not ONE FAN who would start Lamar Odom at center and expect to win. This lineup is an insult to the game of basketball.
There’s a difference between players struggling in pre-season games, and between a coach whose clueless.
Love and Chandler shouldn’t COMBINE for 20 minutes a game. Chandler alone should be seeing 20-25 MPG. But like you said, my criticism is unfounded and I’m pretty sure Eddie Jordan will be hired sometime soon.
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 27, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
if you want people to take you seriously at all do not compare coach k to eddie jordan ever – i hate duke more than any team in sports but i respect coach k more than anyone else except for maybe phil jackson
and exactly what proof do you have in claiming an obscure greek big man is good for a 20 point swing?
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Aug 27, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Lamar Odom is team USA’S starting center, THINK about that for a moment! Would you have started him at the 5? Would ANYONE?
He might be obscure in the fact that we don’t know him. But in the fact that he’s their best big and Coach Jordan intends on throwing away our size in the middle. Yeah, I think we’ll get a whole different ball game if we play Greece again.
Coach K rode the coat-tails of LBJ, Bosh, Wade, Bryant and Howard. Arguably, the five best players in the world. He has failed to construct a lineup with Team USA’s “B” team.
Now onto Sporting Fanaticism: No, Durant isn’t the playmaker that LeBron is. However, Durant is a game-changer, a rule-breaker like LeBron is. Durant’s being 6’10 and his rebounding the ball the way he has, Durant is changing the game, even without being a 30+ PPG scorer. He’s been the most impressive player for Team USA. Are you even watching?
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 27, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
ah yes because he’s their best big he’s good for a 20 point swing – how could i have missed that extremely insightful analysis
and bosh is not in the top 5 players in the world – can’t even be argued
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Aug 27, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I assume you’ve watched this thing called basketball. I’ll give you a recent example: The Atlanta Hawks barely squeaked into the playoffs as an 8th seed in 08. They were getting their asses kicked by the Boston Celtics, many thought it’d be a sweep. Those young Hawks fought back and made it a 7-game series. Since that time, they’ve been a semi-contender.
1 game means NOTHING. Especially considering the aftermath of what occured in Greece and not having some of their key players. So Greece gets it’s best players back and the games will count if we meet again. Yeah, I totally expect a different game, naturally I expect it.
Top 15-20. But also remember what a great year Bosh had for America, he became a post defender and allowed us to rest Howard. Few bigs are better then a motivated Chris Bosh.
You’ve still yet to try and justify the 2nd worst decision of 2010(the first being LeBron to MIA): How does Lamar Odom qualify as a starting center? Tyson Chandler’s sitting right there on your bench! Heck, even Kevin Love could play the position decently enough as a post defender. How does Odom beat out these two bigs in the rotation?
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 27, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
clearly he’s done something to impress arguably the best coach in any sport – and although starting odom at the 5 is odd, i’ll trust coach k’s judgement before yours
and yes, lebron to miami is a terrible decision for him – only an idiot would want the best chance to win as many titles as possible rather than stay in a city no major free agent ever wanted to be a part of
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Aug 27, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
If not mine, then how about 11-time NBA Champion Phil Jackson? During the aforementioned 2008 season, Andrew Bynum went down for the year. It’s not like they had another center(no, Gasol doesn’t qualify as a center, as those 2008 finals showed). So, what of Odom’s minutes at the 5 spot? Did Jackson play Odom at 5?
http://www.82games.com/0809/08LAL11.HTM
None, zip, zero minutes at the 5. Even as Bynum was out of commission and they really had no one at that 5 spot. Odom is a very good player, a very versatile player. But in no way shape or form is he a 5.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=617
All of 230 pounds! I’m an American, I am a team USA guy. That’s why I hope we lose games and that’ll wake the so-called greatest coach ever up.
BTW, I’m sure Phil Jackson would be thrilled to coach Team USA, has he ever been asked?
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 27, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
So Odom isn’t a center in international basketball with its different rules, and even a different shaped paint, because:
Gasol played minutes at center instead of him in a regular season 3 years ago, and:
Gasol isn’t a center because Boston beat the Lakers in the finals that year?
I can see how this is the easy conclusion from looking back 3 years at a series where Gasol average 14.7 points on 53% shooting with 10.2 rebounds versus Garnett’s 18.2 on only 43% and 13 rebounds?
Of course Garnett shouldn’t be counted as a center either, since the venerable Doc Rivers started Perkins and his 4 ppg in the final over him in 5 games.
The Lakers have won back to back NBA championships with Andrew Bynum in the fold. Of course, Gasol got tougher and better and that was a key as well.
Lakers fans felt like if they had Bynum, the series would be different. And 2010 proved it. Size MATTERS. PERIOD
Or what, do you think the front-court of Spencer Hawes and Tony Battie and Marresse Speights is gonna scare people :D.
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 28, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think you addressed anything I said.
Your argument that Odom isn’t a center in international play was based on a ridiculous set of claims.
I guess I could have just highlighted how the Gasol that you called not a center was the tournament MVP and second leading rebounder for the last FIBA championship. That is quick and to the point.
Everyone knows this isn’t the ideal usa team.
But you seem incapable of grasping that the international game has a different set of rules, a larger paint, a shorter three point line, and bigs are required to play on the perimeter. There is a reason when the USA had there A list stars that we had people like Carmelo playing PF, the international game forces a more perimeter game and we match up best to this by having players play different positions than they do in the NBA.
An NBA frontcourt with Granger at pf, or Odom at center doesn’t cut it. In the nba if you can stack size you can win, so taking a sf like Granger at sg might make some sense. But we’re not talking about the nba. We’ve found by this point that not matching up sets us up to be exploited by stretch 5’s (versus the stretch 4’s that are the fad in the nba now).
And so the team USA has pg’s at sg, sf’s at pf, and p’s at center on purpose.
Why not just not watch if you don’t like it that much?
Oh yeah, and awesome usage of Tony Battie, which nation is he playing for?
Gasol as a player improved after the 2008 defeat and is just a big a reason the Lakers won two NBA titles, the 2008 Gasol WAS NOT a center. It’s semi-arguable due to the increase in intensity over the past 2 years, if he could pull it off now.
On Melo at PF: Because of how strong and how physical the guy is, you can get away with it offensively. Perhaps even so defensively if he put in the effort, and he and Bosh led the emotional charge that olympics.
Odom is, with all due respect not Melo. And I’m not talking about points and stuff. Compare the beast that is Melo to Odom. Odom compares more closely to Thaddeus Young.
Jump shooting bigs are a fad, whether they be at the 4 or the 5. Let’s take LeBron’s cavs(09 and 010) and the Orlando Magic.
In 09, LeBron’s cavs were pushed around by Dwight Howard and exposed in the pick and roll. Ironically that same year, the Magic were also exposed by the Lakers with their superior size. Howard was neutralized, Nelson struggled coming off his injury and the rest fell apart from there.
In 2010, both the Cavaliers and the Magic were eliminated by the resurgant Boston Celtics, behind the tenacious defense of KG and Perkins. If you take a look at this off-season, the Celtics signed Shaq and Jermaine. Just one big was enough to replace Perks, but they got two instead. Ainge and Rivers knows what it’s about.
Let’s take that tuneup game against Spain. I personally watched the 3rd quarter before falling asleep. Spain was able to get to the rim at will because of our lack of size. To be a truly great defensive team, you need a balance. The Pistons were a good defensive team, when they acquired a second shot blocking big in Sheed they became a GREAT defensive team.
Solid defensive bigs+ perimeter defenders=for sure title contenders
Perimeter defenders+spot up bigs=okay, just not as good.
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 29, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Your still arguing Gasol wasn’t an NBA center in 2008 when in FIBA Gasol dominated the interior in 2006 as tournament MVP.
You still fail to grasp that we are discussing the international game.
Then again, you haven’t actually responded to anything except to argue that Melo is somehow a bigger player than Odom.
I guess I will just leave it with that the US has learned and play the international game, and has played:
Wade, Billups, Lebron, Carmelo, Durant, Granger, Bosh, Odom, Curry, etc all at 1 position bigger than they play in the NBA.
Of course, you know better than all of our coaches, after all, you saw the 2010 and 2009 nba championships.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280617002
Only THREE Celtics failed to shoot a free throw in that game. The Celtics pushed and attacked the Gasol-led Lakers. He’s not a center, but neither is Odom and PJ didn’t bother attempting to try such a silly idea.
The NBA is the best league in the world, with the best players in the world. We need a coach that will put the best players in the world in a position to succeed.
IE: We need a coach that’ll put players in their NATURAL positions.
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 30, 2010 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey Brazil has largely gotten the lead through it’s superior bigs and shooting. Who would’ve thought?
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 30, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It took Eddie Jordan(Coach K) 25+ minutes to sub Chandler in . There’s no argument against me now.
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 30, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I really shouldn’t bother to respond, but I just cannot help it one last time:
Through 3 quarters:
Brazil:
9- 18 3pts
2 O rb
4 -6 ft
Naturally the logical conclusion is we weren’t playing big enough for our Defense.
I cannot see how Coach K failed to miss this, but it is pretty awesome that you saw it.
I know this is veering a little off topic, but have you considered working with any of the FIBA teams?
and shooting? Like 7 – 11 from 3 point in the first half?
Glad you think Chandler will help with guarding that.
Have you been watching the same game as I? Their inside scoring and big men have led to the extra pass. They’ve been dominating the inside all game long.
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 30, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
(no, Gasol doesn’t qualify as a center, as those 2008 finals showed)
Gasol plays a ton of center, both for the lakers and for the grizzlies.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on Sep 7, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a few things I’d like to point out.
USA is leading all teams in rebounding.
USA is 2nd in defense and first in point differential.
Individual rebounding leaders:
Yi Jianlian
Hamed Haddidi
Zaid Abbas
Luis Scola
Ersan Ilyasova
My point? Only one of these players has the size to play center in the NBA (Haddidi.) You may notice that Odom, or any American for that matter, is not among the leaders here. That’s because Team USA’s players don’t get very many minutes compared to the rest of the teams. Among the top 50 rebounders in the tournament Odom is 4th in rebounds per 40 minutes.
International basketball is different from NBA basketball. In international ball you can succeed with Lamar Odom, Luis Scola, or Ersan Ilyasova as your best post player especially if you have the athleticism of Team USA.
Luis Scola, if we had him would be a player I’d be fine playing center at. He has the strength and the athleticism. He’s one of those guys, Lamar Odom generally is not. I don’t mind going small, I don’t mind starting only 1 big. I mind calling Odom that big, and I mind because he brings more or less the same things Iguodala does.
Now Kevin Love would add more aggression inside and he would add a passing game to our athletic USA team. Odom, like Iguodala is more of a playmaker type and with such great lead guards as Billups, Rose, Westbrook we don’t need both of those guys. We need more of a weapon down-low to free up our shooters.
by LeQuan Glover on Sep 7, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
If we had Luis Scola on our team, that would be great, but only if you made the decision to put him at center. Seeing as you know more about basketball than Coach K, I have no doubt that everyone would support your decision.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
I’m irritated, how the hell did Lamar Odom get 12 rebounds? It’s likely off the idiotic 3-pt shooting of Russia(21 3’s, REALLY?). They have a guy that’s 6’10 and all of 230! ATTACK THE PAINT.
I guess it’s okay if the other team just lets USA get away with this blatant mismatch.
Oh and everyone owes LeBron James I mean Kevin Durant all of their medals, KD is just carrying that team.
I still can’t believe Chandler and Love COMBINED for 11 minutes. There are NBA teams that would like to have a front-line of that caliber.
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