Basketball theory: The Sixers
by LeQuan Glover on Aug 16, 2010 8:18 PM PDT
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PrintI find basketball to be a very simple game, put the ball in the hoop. There are many different ways to accomplish this, including:
Run-N-Gun: This is the system the Sixers currently employ, teams that also employ this style of play are the Phoenix Suns and the New York Knicks, the Miami Heat will likely also embark on this path, as it's the best way to maximize their roster's talent.
Post-Play: Almost extinct because of the lack of truly talented offensive bigs, other then the Lakers, I can't think of another team that can or does run it's plays from the post. Rick Adelman's Sacramento Kings were a terrific example of this play.
Guard play: This is the most dominate style of play, because we're getting alot of talented guards recently, the Spurs, Mavericks, Hornets are among many other teams that rely on their star 1 or 2 guard to get the bunk of their points.
The million dollar question is: How are the Sixers situated to play? It's kind of interesting, Spencer Hawes gives us a big man that can actually play in the post. But he's more of a passing big then a scoring big. The 90's Kings had Webber/Divac. We need Speights to step up and really become the 2nd big in the rotation, that and/or Thad really strengthens and bulks up into a Marion-type 4. The other issue is perimeter shooting, this is also an issue with the run-n-gun system. Generally speaking, you like to pass out of the post to the open 3pt shooter.
Unless as mentioned above and Thaddeus Young can become a Shawn Marion hybrid, the only starter that we know has a 3pt shot is Jrue Holiday. Turner is very much an unknown and Iguodala's outside shot has long been clarified as non existant,
Conclusion: Untill proven otherwise, the Sixers don't have enough shooters or enough quality from the front-court to play this style with 82-game success. But a year or two from now and with the right draft picks, hmmm...
The Run-N-Gun: The Sixers made the post-season in back-to-back years before EFJ using the run and gun style of play. Yet, this Sixers team misses the one crucial element that allows the Hawks, Suns to win games: Outside shooting. Yes, we have Kapono and Nocioni but do you see these guys earning major minutes? Our system killed us as much as it helped us(that's why we were .500) in that we ran off steals and turnovers. But we also gave up open 3's and driving lanes. We do have alot of playmakers. Holiday, Turner, Iguodala, Young, Lou.
The key to being able to successfully run this system this year, relies on the perimeter defense of the HTI trio.(HTI=Hitting The Ignition, I just thought of that) We don't have Samuel Dalembert to protect the paint this year, so much like the 2005-07 Pistons, our perimeter defense must be our calling card. Hawes does have good shotblocking numbers, but I suspect Hawes is more of a weakside shotblocker then a guy that'll patrol the paint.
Conclusion: For the Sixers to make the playoffs for a 3rd time in 4 years with this system, relies on Evan Turner becoming an ALL-NBA defender in his rookie year. Tough expectations, but that's exactly what we're losing without our safe fail in the rotation.
Guard Play: You generally like having alot of guards that can make plays. In that, this is actually the Sixers strongest point. Jrue Holiday and Lou Williams are both guys that can score the ball, Jrue being more of a pure point and Lou being a scoring guard. The best way to make a system like this work, is where the 3rd guard comes in and brings something different. I neglected to mention Jodie Meeks, but he's a very solid 3rd guard. That and if Turner can bring something else to the table as well, that'll be really important.
Conclusion: I think we have great guard play, if we can get all 4 of these guys 15 or so minutes we'll be fun to watch.
Overall: I see us as a half full/half-empty team. We got some post play, some good guard play. Not enough of either to be a great team, whether we have enough to make the playoffs again remains to be seen.
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
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I apologize for making this post mostly about the offense. But I feel like that’s where we’re most challenged as a team.
Really?
Sure our half court offense isn’t great. But I’m pretty sure our defense is one of the biggest things holding the team back. Especially considering the fact that He-who-must-not-be-named aka Lord Voldemort Eddie Jordan did not enforce a defense in general. What led to our losses in the playoffs a year ago and the year before that? As I recall, the Magic torched the team with jumpers due to over pursuit, poor cycling, and overall just shoddy defense. Scoring points has never been the problem; we can generate points from almost anywhere in the roster (williams, speights, etc). We have been piss poor in team defense.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Run-N-Gun: This is the system the Sixers currently employ, teams that also employ this style of play are the Phoenix Suns and the New York Knicks
what?
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
Pace Factor Rankings Past Three Seasons (last 2 for Knicks since they got D'Antoni
2010:
Sixers – 23rd
Suns – 4th
Knicks – 8th
2009:
Sixers – 21st
Suns – 4th
Knicks – 2nd
2008:
Sixers – 20th
Suns – 4th
I’m not exactly sure where you’re getting this idea that the sixers play similar styles to the suns/knicks but i’d love to see the info you’re looking at
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Aug 17, 2010 5:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Pace
It shows pretty clearly the Sixers don’t run near as much as the Knicks/Suns. This just shows that you should take a minute to research what you see to determine if it is actually valid. This guy might think the Sixers run a lot, but it’s clear they don’t.
It’s a bit different. While the Knicks and Suns run in their offensive system, they also don’t really play defense. Their goal is to keep running and tire out the other team, getting quick offense with threes and quick passes into the lane, etc.
The Sixers style of running shows in their pace numbers because the Sixers play defense and create running opportunities off of turnovers, defensive rebounds, etc. It’s the defensive pressure that draws out the shot clock, and thus reduces the number of possessions per 48 min.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
But when you compare the Sixers style to the Suns/Knicks, if you were right, you would expect to find similar pace numbers. That is not the case here and while the Sixers might try to run, it is not in the style of the Suns/Knicks SSOL.
“But when you compare the Sixers style to the Suns/Knicks, if you were right, you would expect to find similar pace numbers.”
No, you wouldn’t, and I explained why you wouldn’t.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
I see what you are saying but I respectfully disagree. The comparison to the Suns/Knicks has a certain connotation, which is maximizing potential. If you want to say the Sixers run, fine, just don’t compare them to the SSOL offense becuase that is not what they run.
It’s not a matter of disagreeing. You didn’t understand what I was saying. I don’t need to explain it again because everyone else on this blog already understands.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
No I undestand, I just disagree. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing.
Let me rehash what you are saying: That the Sixers run, but they also play defense and run off of turnovers.
I agree with this but disagree with the original post in his comparison to the Knicks/Suns. As the commentor above me proved, the Sixers do not play the same style as these teams (as the original poster compared them to). I have no issue saying that the Sixers run but they do not play the same style as the Suns.
Even if you do account for thier defense, if you say that the Sixers like to run (and therefore would use less of the shot clock on offense) you would still expect to see the pace numbers in the upper half but that is not the case (as showed by the pace numbers above).
“That the Sixers run, but they also play defense and run off of turnovers.”
No, I said the sixers running game is different from that of the Suns/Knicks, thus affecting their pace.
“Even if you do account for thier defense, if you say that the Sixers like to run (and therefore would use less of the shot clock on offense) you would still expect to see the pace numbers in the upper half but that is not the case "
You must understand that when you are measuring pace, defense is equally important. The longer you play on the defensive end, the more time is taken up by the shot clock and thus the opportunity to have more possessions is limited. The sixers style these past few seasons was supposed to have good defense and pressure teams to force up turnovers. Once getting these turnovers, they run on a fast break as opposed to settling into a half-court set. This isn’t going to happen on every possession, or even every other possession. When the sixers do settle into a half-court set, this slows down their pace even more. If you watched the sixers play the past few seasons, more importantly, 07-08, 08-09 season, you would’ve seen this.
The knicks/suns play more up-tempo offense on every offensive possession and play poorer defense, resulting in the other team scoring easier. This quickens the pace.
Still confused?
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
“No, I said the sixers running game is different from that of the Suns/Knicks, thus affecting their pace.”
You are saying the same thing I am saying, so there’s that. I said that the Sixers do not compare to the Knicks/Suns, as the original poster said.
I understand pace, thank you for explaining it though. This is why I pointed out the pace numbers back up my point.
“It shows pretty clearly the Sixers don’t run near as much as the Knicks/Suns”
That was your original comment.
The sixers want to run. That is their style of play. The difference is their approach to running. You didn’t say this in your original post. To not clarify this is not telling the whole story.
Hence, my original reply:
The Sixers style of running shows in their pace numbers because the Sixers play defense and create running opportunities off of turnovers, defensive rebounds, etc. It’s the defensive pressure that draws out the shot clock, and thus reduces the number of possessions per 48 min.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Yeah, I wish we had Steve Nash too but we don’t. I wish we had the offensive playmakers of the Knicks(with good defensive intensity) but we don’t have that either.
If you geniuses have the time to nitpick, then you should notice where I said we ran off steals and turnovers. The D’Antoni/Gentry offense couldn’t care less, you just run period. We also don’t have the shooters or the scorers to run like those elite fast break teams.
And if this team isn’t a running team, it’s a team that scores off of some fastbreak opportunities. Or, how would you GENIUSES describe it?
I only wish that the Sixers were a real running team, because their scorers are better suited to that than a half-court game. Unfortunately, winning teams play an inside-out post-up game and if the Sixers want to compete they have to find a way to beat those teams.
It is questionable whether the Sixers have the personnel at present to play a half-court game. None of our Centers are proved post-scorers and none of them appear to be particularly solid defenders.
Against average NBA team’s the Sixers limitations will not be so glaring. There are a lot of teams with sub-standard NBA front line players, and our superior guard play may get us more wins than is currently expected.
It’s against the good teams like Boston and LA that the Sixers weaknesses become apparent. No one to stop their big men from scoring inside, no one to prevent the ball from getting inside, no one who can score on them inside once they get position.
The big teams win championships because they have players who can dominate in the paint. They also have outside shooters who can knock down an open shot.
So the Sixers can run and will run against teams without strong interior play. I think they can probably manage a 40 win season or so, taking advantage of their superior athleticism. But unless you see Speights, Smith and Hawes develop into decent rebounders and viable post-up scorers, this is going to be a marginal playoff team.
And the problem is more visible on offense than defense. In particular, watch how the Sixers attack a set half-court offense. If they don’t hesitate when they swing the ball, and if they generate good looks, then they will be a better team than I think they’re capable of! I have more confidence in Doug as a coach, than I do in our bigs to play the way they should.
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