Into the Future: T'Wolves or Sixers?
by Jordan Sams on Jul 31, 2010 8:10 AM PDT
in Read and React
36 comments
10 days ago we kicked off the 'Into the Future' series by comparing the future of the Sixers to the Carmelo Anthony-led Denver Nuggets. In somewhat of a surprise the Sixers finished with 63 percent of the votes. Today we'll stay in the same division and compare the Sixers future to the Minnesota Timberwolves.
(Based on the extremely biased votes of Sixers fans)
Better future than Sixers
-----
Worse future than Sixers
Nuggets
Front Office
Mike Prada makes an interesting case for David Khan being a slightly better GM than Stefanski in his recent GM power rankings, claiming that Khan's plan -- albeit a bad plan -- is better than not having a plan, like Stefanski. Although I believe it's close, I'd still take Stefanski and company over Khan. Khan might have a plan, but he's signed some absurd deals, made some weird trades, and collects more ones than a stripper on a Saturday night. Stefanski also has DiLeo by his side, who has put together quite the resume since being named assistant GM in 2003.
Wolves salary (not fully updated)
Valuable Assets
Jonny Flynn -- Flynn had a terribly disappointing rookie season and at this point he's no better than Lou Williams. However; Flynn still has three years left on his rookie deal and I assume he'll improve.
Ricky Rubio -- It's uncertain whether Rubio will ever suit up for the Wolves, but he's a valuable asset to have.
Wesley Johnson -- Big, big fan of Wesley Johnson. I don't think he'll ever be an All-Star, but he'll be a very good player.
Kevin Love -- One of my favorite players in the NBA. Stud rebounder, good shooter, great passer, good guy, still two years left on his rookie contract.
My take:
The Sixers have more talent on their roster and a slightly less incompetent (!) front office. The only thing the Wolves have going for them is a little cap space and the rights to Ricky Rubio. In my extremely biased opinion the Sixers have a brighter future than the the Wolves. What say you?
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This is basically like choosing between two painful outcomes.
It is sad when we see the Sixers as having a better front office than anyone- but in this case the Wolves are in worse shape than the Sixers.
99% of the time I’d take the team with youth and cap-space over the Sixers, who are locked in for 3 more Brand years. But you need someone with a clue to use your resources, and until they prove otherwise, teams like the Wolves and Clippers don’t have a clue. Then again, neither do the Sixers…
Until the T’wolves get better management (the biggest problem among others), they are not goin anywhere.
Let the Jruth be told.
And yeah, the same could be said for us, but have you seen the way Minnesota drafts? It boggles the mind.
Let the Jruth be told.
by guitarmouse35 on Jul 31, 2010 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
You're confused that Minnesota drafted Wes over DeMarcus?
Or what about the way they draft “boggles the mind”?
with the fifth selection the minnesota timberwolves select… ricky rubio
with the sixth selection the minnesota timberwolves select… johnny flynn
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 31, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok... Really?
Ricky Rubio did not play in Minnesota that season. Drafting 1 point guard doesn’t seem too horrible considering the Wolves didn’t have any.
drafting 1 player with picks 5 and 6 is pretty bad – and seeing how rubio will probably never play for minnesota anyway, it makes it that much worse
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 31, 2010 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe Rubio said he wanted to play for Minnesota.
I think you meant 1 position. Who would’ve passed on Ricky Rubio at #5? And considering Jonny Flynn was who Minnesota wanted the most (Sacramento was between him and Evans), they took him, knowing that Ricky might not come that season and Minnesota would be without a point guard.
no i meant 1 player with two drafts picks – and until rubio is anywhere near playing in minnesota which is unlikely, it will remain one player with two picks
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 31, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
He is very likely coming to Minnesota next season (2011-12)
David Kahn said something like “Ricky’s coming next season” in a press conference.
just like chris paul doesn’t want to be traded now right – kahn is saying that cuz he has to – how do you think it would go over if he was honest and said “ricky’s never coming”
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Aug 1, 2010 6:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly.
He’s gotta tell everyone what they wanna hear.
I don’t doubt Rubio will play in the NBA, but I find it hard to believe he will be putting on a timberwolves jersey.
Let the Jruth be told.
by guitarmouse35 on Aug 1, 2010 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
If you are looking to draft two future longterm starters- you don’t pick 2 guys who can’t play together.
IMO those two should not be your starting backcourt.
Ricky Rubio is 6'5 and growing.
I can’t see any reason they can’t play Rubio at PG on offense, Jonny at SG and on defense, Jonny at PG and Rubio at SG.
Sure, you can play them together. But I do not believe starting two PG’s in the same back-court is a good use of their individual talents.
The Sixers have a similar situation with Jrue Holiday. He is big enough and shoots well enough to start at SG (with Lou Williams as more the small scorer.) But it would be a waste of Jrue’s ability as a potential elite defender at PG. Rubio would be the same. His best asset is his ability to use his length and quickness to defend PG’s and to be able to control the offense. Pair him with another smaller PG and you are weakening what he can bring.
Same with Flynn. Ask him to play off the ball and be a spot up shooter and his talent is wasted. He is a very good PG for the triangle (better suited than Rubio, who will thrive more in a more traditional PG led offense where he is not expected to be a shooter.) But Flynn is not a natural SG. He does not fit the profile defensively and does not have an off the ball, efficient mentality- but he could become a good PG for you in the triangle in a Derick Fisher kind of mold.
Kahn is playing Roto-league instead of building a team. Pairing Big Al and Love clearly was never going to work. Now he’s planning on running 2 PG’s in a triangle system that de-emphasizes PG play… He assumes he can make trades later- but the other GM’s know they have him over a barrel.
thank you T-money.
And even though they traded lawson, they still drafted him!
Let the Jruth be told.
by guitarmouse35 on Aug 1, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
It's Sad, but the Sixer's Organization is just little ahead than Minnesota's!
When anytime a franchise loses it’s franchise player there are usually lean years ahead with a long rebuilding project. With the addition of Andre Miller it prolonged those lean years with making the team look better than they actually are. A new GM looking to make a quick splash, with money to spend actually made the rebuilding job more difficult with undesirable contracts that cannot be moved.
Andre Miller was the new star on the Sixers that made the team somewhat successful in his few seasons with the team. Everyone knew he wasn’t going to be around too long and was just a bridge until his replacement was found, but the organization got too greedy. New Coach every year, high-profile free agent, etc. Now it is time to start over again!
To answer the question which franchise looks better for the future, the Sixers only have a slight edge over the Timberwolves at this time. We have a better Head Coach, a little better younger talent, better veterans, but no cap space, which Minnesota has. The other area that separtes the teams is our scouting department. Give alot of credit to Tony D, for hitting with most of his draft picks. Philadelphia, historically is a great place for Basketball, where Minnesota surely is not. Philly will attract high-profile free agents if they are winning, but Minnesota will not!
Both teams are at the early stages of the rebuilding projects and will be non-factors for the next 2-3 seasons.
While the wolves probably have more talent (right now, if you include rubio) the sixers have a better GM (amazingly) and honestly, Philadelphia is a better FA destination than Minneapolis, it’s not like I think any franchise is going to win or get smart any time soon but the sixers have an edge or two
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 31, 2010 12:04 PM PDT reply actions
Why do you think the Wolves have more talent?
by Jordan Sams on Jul 31, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Because I think the sixers have 3 useful players on their entire roster and the rest are 8th men at best on a good team whereas I think the wolves have at least 3, and one of the sixers 3 has less upside at this point because of his achievements already in his career (Iguodala)
And the wolves traded a more talented asset (to me) than any of the ‘back up’ guards on the sixers roster just this week.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 31, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Who are the 3 on the Wolves? Wes, Love and Rubio?
by Jordan Sams on Jul 31, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Ignore the horrible front offices for a moment... and who has the edge?
The Sixers have more young talent (IMO) and the best player on either team in Iguodala.
But Minny will likely be adding a number of lottery picks in the next 2-3 years (their own and they got 2 picks for Big Al- one a Memphis pick (Top 14-protected in 2011, Top-12 in 2012, Top-10 in 2013 and Top-9 in 2014-15).)
You can be certain Memphis will be picking in the top 5 next year, and I doubt the Sixers will be in the top 10 unless they trade Iguodala. So if they finally get lucky and draft a superstar they could pass Philly quickly. Then again maybe Turner becomes our star?
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/NBA-10-toughest-coaching-jobs#sport=NBA&photo=11535444
Collins has #5.
Brand and Andre Iguodala may be the least complementary set of teammates in the league.
Would you agree with that 30M dollar statement?
There’s not enough evidence (to me) to make that recurring meme a truism (though it seems the media thinks Andre Iguodala is impossible to play with, doesn’t work with Brand, doesn’t work with Turner?)
Brand and Iguodala have been on the same team for two seasons.
Season One Brand was limited by injury (though the best operating 5 the sixers had involved Brand and Iguodala)
Season Two the entire roster was limited by the worst coaching hire since the Astros decided the guy in the broadcast booth was a good idea and thus conclusions about what works together (or locker room dynamics in my opinion) are flawed and corrupted by the idiot coach.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 31, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m also not sure. I’m guessing Brand in his prime could have fit well with anyone. And I think Iguodala fits well with most players (as long as the team as a whole has some shooters.) You could also say they compliment each other in that Iguodala elevates the teams perimeter D and fast break, while Brand (should) anchor their post defense and half court offense. Brand’s defense and rebounding triggering Iguodala on the break… At least that was the theory.
But I also agree that a hobbled Brand who cannot finish contested looks inside is a poor complement to Iguodala. Iguodala is good at quick looks to bigs- and he needs to be paired with a reasonably athletic PF who can finish- which used to be the case with Brand, and we all hope will be the case this year..
Beasley's POTENTIAL is a valuable asset for the Wolves IMO
He could break out as their best player. But then again, potential is potential. And isn’t worth much anything outside of Ridiculous Upside.
I don't think Kahn is that bad of a GM
1. Trading Randy Foye and Mike Miller for 5th overall pick- Good Move
2. Drafting Ricky Rubio- Good Move
3. Signing Ramon Sessions – Bad Move
4. Drafting Johnny Flynn- meh, Ricky Rubio was years from joining the Wolves and Minnesota still needed a PG.
5. Trading for Michael Beasley- Good Move,
6. Trading Al Jefferson- Good Move
7. Signing Darko Milicic, Bad Move
8. Trading Ramon Sessions, Good Move
9. Drafting Wes Johnson, Good move, Im not a big fan of Cousins
Why is trading Al Jefferson a good move?
And individual moves cannot be looked at in a vacuum if there’s no logical plan in place for each deal to come together to form a winner. His signings have been a mish-mosh of random signatures and youtube videos.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / Twitter
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Aug 1, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
How is drafting Ricky Rubio a good move?
He hasn’t played a game in a Wolves jersey.
The Jefferson trade was awful. They got pennies on the dollar in return for a very good big man.
by phillyhoosfan on Aug 2, 2010 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
If you could guarantee
That Rubio would play a game in a Wolves uniform, this might be close. Minny has a better cap situation, but I can’t see them actually using that to their advantage all that much in the next few years.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
Looking back, who should they have drafted?
I can make an argument for Rubio and Curry. Or maybe T. Williams?
There were not a ton of top flight two player combo’s available where they were pickking…
I don’t question the Rubio pick. He’s worth the risk.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
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