Into the Future: Nuggets or Sixers?
by Jordan Sams on Jul 21, 2010 6:01 AM PDT
in Read and React
35 comments
The Sixers clearly aren't contending anytime soon, and the championships for the next five years are clearly the Heat and L*kers to lose. The only things for Sixers fans to hold onto are the few bright spots, the glimmer of hope that the front office has learned from their mistakes, and the small chance that they're one of the teams in contention when the Heat/L*kers era comes to a close.
So just how bright is the Sixers future and how does their current situation compare to other teams in the league? Let's find out.
Before summer's end we'll compare the Sixers roster, salary cap and front office to the rest of the NBA. I'll provide the essential links and my take, then hand it off to you guys with a poll and a chance to voice your opinion in the comments. At the end we'll see how many teams we'd trade places with, given the chance.
First up: Denver Nuggets.
Roster
Salary
Front Office
Sixers
MAIN OWNERS: Comcast Corporation
CHAIRMAN: Ed Snider
PRESIDENT / GENERAL MANAGER: Ed Stefanski
SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT / ASSISTANT GENERAL MANAGER: Tony DiLeo
Nuggets
MAIN OWNER: Stan Kroenke
VICE PRESIDENT OF BASKETBALL OPERATIONS: Mark Warkentien
VICE PRESIDENT OF PLAYER PERSONNEL: Rex Chapman
My take:
The Nuggets have the advantage in the front office, as most teams will during this exercise. They have a legitimate superstar in his prime in Carmelo, who is an unrestricted free agent after this season. They also have a couple solid pieces (Nene, J.R. Smith, Afflalo and Ty Lawson), but all but Ty Lawson will become free agents over the next two years.
They Nuggets have two options: they could re-sign Melo and continue to build around him, or they could start fresh no later than two years from now, with only three four current players scheduled to be on their payroll (Lawson, Balkman, Birdman and Al Harrington), and presumably a few rookie contracts.
Compare that to the Sixers who have a legitimate chance to begin building a powerhouse in 2013 if they play their cards right between now and then, and already having two legit pieces in place, both on their rookie contracts (Jrue and Turner).
This is a toss-up for me and if it came down to talent and salary cap alone I'd chose the Sixers. The largest difference is the confidence, or lack thereof, I have in Snider, Stefanski and company. However; taking everything into account, I'd still chose the Sixers future over the Nuggets.
Your thoughts?
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I have a feeling
Carmelo is begging the Nuggets FO daily to let him leave Denver. He seems destined to be a New York Knick.
Then he most likely will give away a lot of money
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions
IMO it is not even close.
The Sixers have zero superstars and no cap room. They appear to be 3 years away from even trying to make a big step forward.
The Nuggets have a 26 year old superstar and a near blank slate to build around him. They also have a promising young PG and a 28 year old center in his prime (if they decide to re-sign him.) They are in good position to build in the new CBA. environment. So the Nuggets can compete now and have a chance at a bright future.
I believe the difference in Melo and Iguodala is minimal. Melo is more of a superstar because he can create for himself in the half court. Besides that him and Iguodala have near equal value in my mind, and I’d probably even give the slight edge to Andre.
Nene is vastly overrated in my opinion. I’d much rather have Sam. MUCH rather.
Jrue is better than Lawson (or will be better), and he’s younger.
IMO the threesome of Andre, Sam, Jrue are a better threesome to have than Melo, Nene, Lawson. The only reason the Nuggets made the leap two years ago is because they had a good coach, great role players and Chauncey Billups. Where were they before Billups was traded there?
If they re-sign Melo and Nene and Billups leaves (retired, free agency), they won’t even come close to contending with the Lakers or Thunder or Blazers in the West. You can’t win when Nene is one of your three highest paid players.
Sam?
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 21, 2010 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah I know he’s not on the team. I’m just saying, Lawson, Melo, Nene is about as good as Jrue, Andre, Sam. How far did that take us?
How far would it take the sixers with a good coach and a better bench.
It’s not a 3 player game
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions
If the Sixers kept Sam, him, Andre, Jrue, Turner, Collins and maybe 1 backup point and a backup rebounding/defensive big win 50 games. Still not a true contender though, just like the Nuggs.
I think both teams (even with Sam still on the sixers) as currently constructed, the Nuggets are better. Chauncey doesn’t get the credit as one of the better points in the game that he deserves. And the Nuggs defensive big men (when healthy) are better all around players than Sam.
In 3 years, it’s too hard to tell what’s going to happen, but right now, over all, I’d rather have the Nuggets Roster and ownership and front office
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re probably right, but it got confusing because you were referring to the past tense of how far sam/andre/jrue took the sixers, and the future with ty lawson.
If we’re talking hypotheticals, and I knew the sixers were willing to re-sign sam, I’d probably take Jrue andre and sam over lawson melo and nene for the next 3-6 years.
But not presently because of billups – that’s all – i got confused by the how far did that take us thing :)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Jordan you’re killing me with this assessment right here. Sammy D over Nene? It’s not even close. Nene is an above average offensive center and an average defensive at worst. Gives huge effort and is much more agile than Sammy D. The skills and threat on the offensive end is just too much for Sammy D
I chose the Sixers.
I don’t think Carmelo will be sticking around in Denver and that alone should spell a temporary death knell for the Nuggets. I see the Sixers as a team that will be on the rise within a couple years while the Nuggets are just the opposite.
Melo isn’t a restricted free agent, he’s unrestricted. Small distinction, but a huge one because Denver can’t do anything about him walking next summer (or the following summer if he doesn’t use his ETO).
Once Melo’s gone, they really have nothing. If I had any confidence the Sixers wouldn’t botch every trade they make I’d give them the edge based on young talent. You can flip a coin at this point, though.
Send GT Green packing.
Until Melo commits or doesn’t commit to the extension on the table (and I believe he will, because the money difference could be HUGE and he isn’t going to win in NY and Chris Paul isn’t ending up there any time soon) it’s an incomplete information kind of vote.
Purely based on off court stuff, I’d choose the Nuggets (sorry folks, but Karl has a recent history in the NBA and Collins, well he can criticize guys very well)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 7:49 AM PDT reply actions
You’re forgetting the pending lockout and new CBA which most likely will reduce quite a bit the amount of money a player can make for the life of his contract
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
It can be done during the season. Sign the extension and get shipped off before the deadline.
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 21, 2010 8:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m sure it could be done, but what do the Knicks have to offer the Nuggets to make it worth while? Little to no talent and no picks for like the next 5 years. What’s the motivation the Nuggets have to help Carmelo make all that extra money?
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
They might know melo wont stay no matter what so they might as well get something for him instead of letting him walk. A lot of GMs overvalue Gallinari, Chandler is a nice player, Curry’s enormous expiring deal, and they have their first rounder this year although Houston has the option to switch picks.
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 21, 2010 8:59 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Or they could just tell Carmelo to suck it, let him hit free agency with the new crappier CBA and not take back flotsam and jetsam they don’t need?
Let him hit the open market, then a free for all starts and maybe they get an even better offer than the weak ass Knicks stuff
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s 50/50 depending if Melo resigns or not, so looking strictly at personnel, the Nuggets take this is FO and coaching. Collins should be a very solid coach but Karl is one of the more underrated coaches in the league.
Players younger than 30 Nuggets
Carmelo Anthony
Nene Hilaro
Arron Afflalo
Renaldo Balkman
Joey Graham
Ty Lawson
J.R Smith
Sheldon Williams
Players under 30 76ers
Willie Green
Spencer Hawes
Jrue Holiday
Andre Iguodala
Jason Kapono
Jodie Meeks
Jason Smith
Marreese Speights
Evan Turner
Louis Williams
Thaddeus Young
I’m not really sure how that’s relevant since most of the players you listed for the 76ers are barely cracking rotations on good teams
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
They have a good core of young players
Williams, Young, Igoudala, Turner, Speights, Holiday, and Meeks are either good starters or good bench players.
The Nuggets have Anthony, Lawson, Smith, and Nene. I would have to say the Nuggets have the advantage in young players.
Well your opinion is that they are good bench players, and sadly MOST of them are bench players.
Most of them are one dimensional bench players, most of them wouldn’t know defense if it gave them a rectal exam
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, at this point Andre and Jrue and the only players who could start in this league, with the exception of Turner assuming he develops into what he can be. Speights, Lou and Thad are offensive threats off the bench and nothing else. Meeks is really the only good bench player out of the bench, and that’s because he plays defense, even if he’s slightly under sized.
Young and Speights have yet to prove if they have anything other than (possibly failed) potential.
Williams is an undersized combo guard who can score but not defend.
Igoudala is a stud and an asset that may be traded.
Turner is, at this point in time, an unknown quantity in the NBA.
Holiday is a nice young developing guard, that I honestly think many, many people (i.e sixers fans) believe he is currently something he’s not. A top NBA point guard.
Meeks is a nice 3 point threat off the bench, who will hopefully play defence to the best of his abilty.
Did any team draft worse than the Sixers during the 1990s?
1993 second overall Shawn Bradley (next: Penny Hardaway, who was traded for Webber)
1994 sixth overall Sharone Wright
1995 third overall Jerry Stackhouse (next two: Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnett)
1996 first overall Allen Iverson
1997 second overall Keith Van Horn (traded for Tim Thomas; next pick was Chauncey Billups)
1998 eighth overall Larry Hughes (next two: Dirk Nowitzki and Paul Pierce)
1999 no pick
2000 20th pick Speedy Claxton
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