Basketball Sense: A Lesson on Ed Stefanski's Ignorance
by Michael Levin on Jul 20, 2010 6:00 AM PDT
in Front Office Shredding
48 comments
Hello, Newmans. Let's break out the ol' chalkboard and examine two words that haunt our past, present, and future. No, not "rectal exam" -- BASKETBALL SENSE. If you're new to this skin-searing phrase, Kate Fagan has a February primer on the subject associated with the trading of Andre Iguodala. Here's your official Webster's definition, provided by their best unpaid, unaffiliated and unofficial contributor, Me:
[bas-kit-bawl sens]
-noun
- Assumed logic in an attempt to better the basketball team on the court in the short term
- The idea that winning 40 games is better than winning 20.
- Cottage cheese.
- A cover-up term used by a money-hemorrhaging franchise trying to pinch a few pennies from old, musty women.
-Can be confused with: Incompetence, Nepotism, Smearing rubbing alcohol on the next 3-5 seasons.
"I would have asked my co-worker to stay the night, but it didn't make basketball sense."
"Yo dawg, this basketball sense tastes kind of stale."
"The Samuel Dalembert trade made basketball sense because we got Spencer Hawes -- look how young he is! What's money?"
-Origin
Poland/Wharton School of Business/South Philadelphia OR Bruce Willis/Haley Joel Osment/M. Night Shyamalan
-Can be confused with: Incompetence, Meth Addiction, Smearing rubbing alcohol on the open wounds of the next 3-5 seasons while in a vat of salt in a lightning storm.
Ed has used his faulty basketball sense to explain not trading Iguodala, failing to ship away Elton Brand for expiring contracts, re-signing an archaic Allen Iverson, and hiring every orthodontist's dream boy, Eddie Jordan. What's been the most frustrating, as shova and dweebowitz explored in their Fanposts, is Stefanski's complete unwillingness to rip apart this slipshod painting and start over with a fresh canvas. How much this has to do with the slack Snider's affording him on the corporate leash won't be known for a few years, if ever.
While lucking into the 2nd pick is a start, Evan Turner isn't going to be the savior of a floundering franchise for at least three years and that's only if he, Iguodala and Jrue Holiday can get a legitimate big man to compliment them. So far, almost three seasons of Stefanski's "basketball sense" has netted us the non-geometrical equivalent of a straight line.
Perhaps it's time to adhere to a more universally accepted logic, Ed. How's empirical sound?
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If it dont make basketball dollars, it dont make basketball sense
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 20, 2010 8:11 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If we don’t get no tolls, we don’t eat no rolls.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 20, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Men In Tights!!
Let the Jruth be told.
by guitarmouse35 on Jul 20, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
tight tights
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jul 20, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn’t a line at least move in a direction. Aren’t the sixers more equivalent to a point as the Stefanski years have been mostly about staying in one spot
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 20, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions
and thats being kind….. we have kinda moved in the “negative” direction if we are using a number line analogy…
BTW – thanks for the mention – this goes on the fridge at home – make way for daddy, kids….
Yeah your kids suck compared to your fanpost!
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 20, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions
"every orthodontist's dream boy, Eddie Jordan"
Classic…
http://www.sixers4guidos.com
by Ricky - Sixers4guidos on Jul 20, 2010 7:56 AM PDT reply actions
He lives! Or as a translation site tells me, egle vive!
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 20, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
“failing to ship away Elton Brand for expiring contracts”
-I’m pretty sure if Stefanski was offered expiring contracts for Elton he would do it in heartbeat. Brand has one of the worst contracts in the NBA right now. No one wants Elton and the $51 million remaining contract.
I think he was referring to last years deadline when we had a chance to get Stoudamire for ‘Dre and Brand if we would also take on Jason Richardon’s contract unless I am msitaken…
But it made more “BBCents” (visual: Im doing the Dr. Evil quote marks with my fingers) to hold out for, who, Leandro Barbosa (aka “trade filler in the Turkoglu deal”)?
Brilliant.
There’s a difference between shipping away Brand for expiring contracts and shipping away your best player and Brand for expiring contracts.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 20, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I suppose, but a draft pick or two would have been nice as the sixers were gettng the shaft, and had to pay richardson one more year :)
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 20, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
“Basketball sense” is the same thing as “playing the right way” either you get it or you don’t. You don’t like what is happening so now you want to blow it up. OK, let\’s see if that really makes basketball sense as I subjectively understand it.
Timing is everything and even if you decide to blow up a team, you need to have a plan and the ability to achieve the plan’s objectives.
So let’s think for a second about how to build a successful franchise: You need available money to sign the players, and you need to get ones who are in the top 5 at their position in the NBA, not necessarily now, but at some point in the future.
Now, if you accept this, then the question must be (from a basketball sense standpoint) does blowing up the team help you to get back to building the franchise you want, or is it just another way of shooting yourself in the foot, jetisoning players before you can even determine their potential.
Iverson ain’t with the team, Jack, and we’re stuck with Brand , cause we payed him based on what he could do in his past, and not necessarily now. You can cry about that all you want, but sometimes the best thing to do with a mistake is to live with it. Brand is worth more as an expiring, and that’s the way it is, so that makes basketball sense! And if we get lucky, and he regains some of his ability, he is a pro’s pro and a good guy to have around, not a prima-donna like a few players.
Yes. let’s get rid of Thad Young, we know he can’t play, Speights doesn’t play defense so he’s a bust. Let’s continue to talk about trading Andre, cause well. he’s the only one we have that anyone wants. Lou Williams isn’t a starter so we should get rid of him, Gotta get rid of Willie because he takes up so much cap space.
Stop offering desperate moves and think about how to acquire more talented players and not get rid of the ones we have! Too bad we didn’t get Favors since that would have fixed one hole, and worse because now we don’t know if Evan Turner is a player or not. But that, if it was a mistake, was one that the majority of you wanted. There were no opportunities for us to make a deal this summer, so quit your whining and see what we have.
At least we got rid of the idiot coach, one in a long line of many who were not good teachers or great strategists. Which by the way, is the worst thing to do when your trying to build through the draft. Collins is a good coach and will figure out how to use his players to cover their weaknesses and maximize the value of what they can do. A good team is always more than the sum of it’s parts, dependent on their ability to play the right way, which simply means getting the ball to the guy with the best chance of sinking the shot! It is the coach that has to instruct the players so they play the right way and think the right way.
The basketball sense thing to do now is to let Doug sort out the talent, figure out who he can work with and who he can’t. Then you will know who to trade and not to trade. Given the faulty feedback from last season, that’s the only thing we could do!
We’re going to suck this season, no matter what Turner does because I can’t see the Sixers current front line competing. So we should have a decent draft pick next season, and i think that Doug will find a way to get value out of our last few draft picks, Thad, Lou, Mo, even maybe Carney and of course Igoudala. Whatever happens we’ll have a much better understanding of which moves to make, because now at least, we can trust the coach.
Sorry.
Let’s distill it down a little further, blowing up the team is a dumb idea. The basketball sense thing to do is take your time, wait for the right opportunities to come about and in the meantime make the best of what you have. If we have a chance to add someone that can help the team especially at the forward or Center spot, we should take a shot.
How they play under Doug will determine who stays and who goes. Not based on their play from last season, which is what has everyone so upset and disenchanted.
No see, I’m still confused. I think it’s because your premise is flawed and demonstrates a lack of understand on how NBA championship teams are built.
You put yourself in position to strike when the opportunities present themselves. The sixers are currently in position to do nothing
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 20, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Again – I think you make a great point about seeing what we have after stripping out the “Jordan effect”… but I think its pretty clear (even to our coach that you trust) that the “upside” of this bunch is “being relevant”.
Personally, Id rather see what young, cheap kids like Jrue Turner and even Thad, Speights, Hawes, etc. have but its not like this second group are some uncovered jewels we cant do without – or ,as you put it, “have a chance of being a top 5 in their position in the league”. Certainly its clear Brand is past that and Dre is not likely to be a “top 5” 3-man or Shooting Guard.
And to Skitzo215’s point(s), keeping Iguodala (as much as he is a great player) keeps us mediocre and runs counter to getting REALLY good draft picks or a lot of good draft picks..
Keeping Brand around (and to some extent, Dre) for THREE YEARS runs counter to the idea of having money available to sign free agents (IF they even happen to want to join an aging mediocre team) until Dre has wasted 3 of his prime years and may even be at the beginning of, or even in, a decline.
I’m a “pull the bandaid off kinda guy”….lets see what we have in the kids, get more kids and stay flexible to strike opportunisticly
Actually, i think Iguodala is a top 5 NBA player at either of those spots. He’s also a pretty good all-around player so he is an asset to build around, even if he isn’t a #1 scorer. My hope is that at least one of our young players turns out to be a top 5 NBA player, other than Jrue, who I guess we all think is one on potential.
If Speights doesn’t play defense then we still have Amare Stoudamire 2, just give the guy the ball and see if he can be the focal point of the offense. If he can do that, we’ll be a much better team than I think at the moment.
I think Lou has his place as a backup guard, and good insurance against Turner.
Thad, who had a terrible last season should have the opportunity to shine. He is a gazelle, and if the team can get him the ball on defense he’ll be one of the primary beneficiaries. Thad is still seen as a 4, but unless he’s really put on some size, there’s no way he’s guarding Kevin Garnett! If the coach can get realistic about what Thad can do, and play him as a three, he’d be much better off!
We’ll see if Evan Turner can play in the NBA or not, and if being in shape will help him to get the shots that he likes to get.
In theory with Jrue and Iguodala all we need is one more really good player and two solid ones to be competitive. This team needs a banger inside more than anything else. An 18 yr. old Moses Malone would be perfect.
It’s on the defensive end, where I think our real liabilities are. Let’s see if Doug can find a way to use the speed of our perimeter players to keep the ball out of the paint and to stop penetration. If he can come up with effective schemes for this group we’ll all be pleasantly surprised. We should be a better defensive team than we showed last season, even without Samuel Dalembert.
Specifically, I think we’re going to get killed on the boards on both ends. We won’t get a lot of 2nd -chance shots, and I’m afraid we’ll surrender more than our share as well as give other team’s fast-break opportunities. Maybe Jason Smith has a nasty side, when he realizes that if he’s going to make a living in the NBA he has to do something to be more effective inside.
Flipping Kapono makes sense if we can get some value for him. Swap him for a big.
OUCH you hit me in my weak spot… to paraphrase Jerry Maguire: "you had me at ‘An 18 yr. old Moses Malone would be perfect’ "…Ahhhh, I miss those days – thats the 76ers I grew up on….remember how he grunted like a freakin’ animal with every rebound….dude was MEAN.
This is my biggest concern as well. I really hope Brand DOES re-invent himself – sorta like Jermaine ONeal did – as a talented but overpaid banger with smarts. Grunt when you rebound damnit! It makes a difference I swear.
And this is why I liked the idea of trying to get Evan Turner AND Cousins (head case and all) even if it cost of Dre…hopfeully another one comes along and we are in a position to pounce on him.
I gotta tell ya though I really dont think JK is going to yield it – but we could possibly get a “free call option” on someone like Ajinca or Koufos…maybe a Brandon Bass.. I am disappointed in Smith, too. I had some hopes for him..then he scored 27 against Denver….then nothing…
But, yeh, that is exactly what I am irritated about ….we should be in the mix in these conversations – finding what the market IS for a Lou Williams, Kapono, and sorry but even for a Thad or Speights.
Dont get me wrong I really like Iguodala (though we may have to agree to disagree on Top 5 point) – and I dont want the kids to get comfortable with losing – But cmon you gotta be in the conversations and find out what the “market” is…at least be in the rumors, be “relevant”, not on the sidelines like Ed seems to be…
I’ll try to tap into your optimism about this season but I want to the FO making some effort too!!
I think the market for players is very screwed up right now, the teams that were in position to take advantage of the players becoming available tried. So far only 4 decent players have changed teams, if you include David West. Pierce and Nowitzky resigned with their teams.
The Lock-out and the anticipation of a different CBA hangs over everything. Chances are, the Sixers will be in a better position after the new rules take affect.
I agree that if we can do something we should, but I’m afraid the players we really would like, Cousins, Favors are gone for good. There just aren’t a lot of good big men in the NBA, Even Sam Dalembert can make a living in the NBA!
AL Jefferson
David Lee
Lebron James
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudemire
BTW, I’m presuming when you said David West you meant David Lee?
Cause I’m curios as to what you define as a decent player? To me, Kyle Korver is a decent player. Raymond Felton is a decent player. Sam Dalembert is even decent
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 20, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Al Jefferson doesn’t belong on that list, he’s not a top 5 player at his position and neither is David Lee.
The Sixers have players who are the equivalent of these types.
They are NBA players and are probably starters for most teams, but these guys aren’t leading anyone to a Championship, at most they would be support players for a top 5 talent.
Dalembert is really a back-up Center, but the NBA has so few quality big men that he still manages a starting job! Definitely not a top 5 player, not even in the top 10 or even top 15 for NBA Centers.
Korver is a journeyman player, a perennial back-up, Felton is a starter but not a top 5 player either.
Decent player = top 10 at their position.
Hmm, let’s take this one point at a time
You mentioned David West (and one can only assume you meant David Lee, because David West has not changed rosters this off season) and were talking about decent players, and now you’re only talking about top 5 players at their position.
Sam Dalembert was the second best rebounder in the NBA the last two seasons. If you think that makes a back up center, you must think most of the starting centers in the NBA are back ups.
And there at the end, you say decent is top 10 at their positions which is
A. Flawed
B. Contradictory to your original point which was only 4 decent players got moved and jefferson and lee (or west, which is it?) don’t count cause they aren’t top 5 at their position.
So again, it’s hard to understand what point you are trying to make because it seems to confuse even you.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Obviously you can read between the lines-Dalembert is really a back-up Center, but the NBA has so few quality big men that he still manages a starting job! Definitely not a top 5 player, not even in the top 10 or even top 15 for NBA Centers.
Find one objective ranking of Centers that places Sam in the top 15! Rebounding and shot-blocking are part of it. But Sam is such a negative force on offense and makes so many stupid mistakes on both ends of the floor, that no-one is impressed. No one selects him to go to the All Star game!
Figure that out and then get back to me.
4 decent players, Lebron, Bosh, Stoudamire, Lee. And decent in my definition, which is not imo, flawed. And certainly defensible in the case of other players who switched teams.
HA - BRILLIANT INSIGHT from Mark Stein at ESPN.com
" I’ve been advised that Philadelphia, with its surplus of swingmen, is open to moving sharpshooter Jason Kapono, who has one season left on his contract at $6.6 million. Kapono is a natural target for teams in the hunt for a perimeter specialist with Mike Miller and Kyle Korver getting snapped up early in free agency. "
I thought all of us would get a kick out of this breaking news……
its a great question -
we dont know the “market” unless ED is out (see what Amaro is doing – he is creating or participating in the “buzz” which ignites more inbound interest and idea generation….more competition, better pricing, etc.)
Without knowing, Id be happy with something like a second round pick, a Kosta Koufos or maybe a Brandon Bass (im thinking cheap, short term bigs with some kinda upside)
Nothing, you can get a protected second round pick and and a trade exception
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you somehow think Comcast would use it?
I don’t
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions
I really enjoyed your definition of “basketball sense.”
As this off-season lags on, I become more and more frustrated with the sixers’ FO. I really can’t even blame Stefanski here. It seems to be more fair to place blame on the ownership.
They won’t spend money unless they have a championship team. They won’t have a championship team unless they spend money.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Basketball sense to Stefanski means you do not take one step back to take two steps forward…
Because anyone with any sense knows that if they take a step back then Stefanski will get fired.
So Basketball sense = short term job preservation.
to add on to your thought, a few of my own: It would be nice to know what goal this franchise has in mind in order for this to be considered a successful season. How many more strikes does Stefanski have? Does the FO have a plan for this team to be contending in the next several seasons?
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Stephanski has a plan- tread water and try and not get fired,
But you are correct in that the Sixers have no plan- besides maybe moving to Las Vegas,
I’d kill you on principle.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 21, 2010 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
No professional sports team is moving to Las Vegas any time soon, commissioners are too afraid
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 21, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I wonder which camp Ed Stefanski belongs in?
All the lonely people. The coaches and executives who are considered at the top of their games were surrounded by assistants and scouts. They examined the games and players, even if there was little of consequence to take in. They had notes, were on the phone, and gave instructions post-game. Conversely, those who you may list as not the best in their field sat alone, playing with their phone, reading the paper, and generally looking bored. There’s a lot that goes into being a GM, but you can tell those who are professional in all aspects.
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