We messed up.
by saveourbluths on Jul 14, 2010 9:19 PM PDT
67 comments
Not taking Cousins is yet another draft misstep in sixers history. I wouldnt have cared if turner played well in summer league, you simply cant pass up on a possibly dominant big man. And Cousins is reinforcing the fact that he will be dominant in summer league. I get it, its summer league. But the things hes doing are literally unbelievable and are buttressed by his college performances.
Its not a fluke, the mans a beast. His chippiness will serve him well. Whats better? Taking cousins, the pick with the higher upside while simultaneously solving our need at big man. He boards, he posts, hes got perimeter game, and hes a playmaker. Or taking turner...who needs the ball to justify his game while we have an up and coming PG in jrue and iguodala.
Im thoroughly depressed. Had he not had "red flags," would we have taken him? It makes me sick. He literally had no red flags. I hate overrating irrelavencies, which im probably doing with summer league. But im not. Cousins is and will be better.
We messed up.
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Breathe.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
Ah you can’t blame saveourbluths. With so many not too good picks made in the past score, combined with the nasty performance of Turner in Orlando, I’d feel a bit nervous about Turner too. In fact, I am! But i’m going to wait for the season to start to start judging if taking Cousins was the better pick.
Tinger
actually, there is blame to give. For all of the not too good picks made in the past, there have also been solid picks with people screaming “bust” before giving that individual a real chance. No, not a summer league chance, a real chance.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Just Summer League.
Say it with me, just. summer. league.
That said, it’s human nature to have second thoughts, especially with the rumors that the Wolves would do anything for the Villain. We could’ve traded down to #4, drafted Cousins, and picked up another asset/got rid of Brand.
JUST.SUMMER.LEAGUE!
I think people need to take a deep breath and remember the facts and not be openly impressed (or worried) about summer league games.
Most people on here, even if they didn’t want Turner, they preferred Favors or Johnson over Cousins…stop rewriting history.
And the whether or not the sixers made a mistake, we did not make one.
I would have liked to see the sixers draft Cousins, but I know why they didn’t, and they are legitimate concerns
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 7:46 AM PDT reply actions
Cousins wasn't getting drafted at #2.
It would have been Favors or Johnson before it would have been Cousins. A couple summer league games don’t mean anything. Zero. Turner didn’t turn into a crappy b-ball player overnight. He is legit and there is no reason to be concerned yet. Cousins also didn’t lose his attitude problem overnight. Time will tell if he can really reign it all in properly. Settle the f down. The Sixers didn’t mess up. We made the only pick we could have at that spot. Passing on Turner was not something any team at #2 would have done.
I’m getting a little sick and tired of “it’s just summer league, no need to get worried” responses.
If Turner was a one and done, didn’t perform too well in college last season, and was drafted more on future potential, rather than his ability to contribute right away, I wouldn’t be overly concerned. Pretty much like Jrue last year. A little like Derrick Favors this year.
However, Turner was drafted to help turn the franchise around now. He was one of, if not, the top performer in college last season. All we heard from Turner early in the off season was how he was working on his outside shot, how he was working on his game. It’s not like Turner sat on the couch for the last three and a half months. Minor injury aside, he’s been working on his game.
Not all great college players make good NBA players. There were a small percentage of articles predraft questioning whether Turners’ game would translate to the NBA.
Some of us believe Turner should have had a better Summer League showing. Much like Wall and Cousins are having. Yes it’s just summer league. It’s NBA hopefulls, second and third year players, and scrubs. Turner should have shown us more.
I’m not argueing that Turner will be a failure. I believe he is a smart, crafty player who will figure out how to get the most out of his abilities. I just think the Brandon Roy comparisons may have been a little opturmistic.
Personally I’m hoping Turner proves me and the others with concerns wrong.
The “it’s just summer league” responses are everyone’s way of calming themselves down, but I agree with you. There were defineintely some concerning things about Turner’s summer league play. It wasn’t just a case of him missing shots; he was getting absoultely man-handled by scrubs. I’d like to know exactly why he played so bad. Conditiong? Lack of athletisism? It’ll be interesting to see how he plays in pre-season.
What I dont get is then how some players look like they havent missed a beat. I dont think most rookies sign that much earlier than other rookies, and that is the purported reasoning behind athletes not being in good condition. Not having a contract, agents tell them not to do anything according to articles i read, and it just makes sense.
It is just summer league. But it also just basketball. Turner was terrible. Cousins is doing amazing. I will not put 99 percent of any stock into the summer league. its just very disconcerting because the attributes that Cousins was picked to have, he is instantly showing without any of the other negative attributes which people unjustly criticized him for.
I dont know what to do anymore. I cant handle another bad pick.
by saveourbluths on Jul 15, 2010 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions
to answer your question, it was all of the following. His conditioning was off, he was told not to play 5 on 5. Poor conditioning makes you slow, makes you get man-handled by scrubs, and makes you more frustrated, increasing your chances of doing something stupid. Also, you have to consider that the scrubs he was playing against conditioned specifically for these five games, and thus, a chance to get accepted in the NBA.
It’s ridiculous to assume anything until we see him working with the coach in actual sets, getting playing time next to real NBA players. It just isn’t worth it to jump the gun. I know it’s a long, boring off-season, but patience is a virtue.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
I’m getting tired of people over reacting to summer league games, so I guess we’re even.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm with SportingFanaticism on this one.
I am sick and tired of overreaction to Summer League. At it’s heart Summer League is pickup ball. Pickup ball is always dominated by the most athletic players, not the most cerebral ones. If I remember correctly Jrue didn’t light up the Summer League either. Where is everyone hemming and hawing about him? (It’s almost like people are using his play in the regular season as an indicator of how he will be going forward instead of those Summer League games. Weird.)
When he was a sixer John Salmons dominated summer league. He went on to be quite the all star
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 16, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
This year Jrue tore up the Summer League and was arguably the best player there. This from a player a year younger than Turner.
Not one of us expected Jrue to tear up last years Summer League. His college stats were bad as he was played out of position at UCLA. He was drafted as a high risk versus high reward player considering where the Sixers were selecting, based more on the perception that he was one of the top High School kids from his year.
I'm aware of what Jrue did this year.
That was basically my point. (I meant to say Summer League last year.) Expectations aside, arguments are being made that Turner not playing well in the Summer League means he will be a bust. Those same arguments were made last year about Jrue. I get that Turner is supposed to be more NBA ready than Jrue was last year, but using Summer League as gospel is silly.
Whether Turner turns out good is immaterial to me.
Cousins is what we needed and has a bigger upside. I wanted us to take Cousins from jump street. If we want Jrue to be a true PG and the primary playmakers while still getting Iguodala some touches, why would the Turner pick make sense? I think the bust potential is also much, much higher for turner than cousins.
Basically, having a great Turner compared to a great Cousins needs no comparison. Having a great Cousins would be a much better scenario. The overall quality of the team with a great Cousins if we drafted em and lets say a mid-level contract to JR smith (or someone who can shoot that doesnt need the ball) instead of Turner is just much higher. That was a confusing sentence so ill put it in human words.
Cousins + 2-guard (JR Smith next year, hell even going back to Iggy then thad at the 3) >>>> Turner + any center or “big man” we have that will play the big man position.
I am beyond concerned. Im just done.
Ok, I don’t think there’s anyone on these boards that doesn’t have an inkling of apprehension, I’ll readily admit that it’s troubling. But after 4-5 games, irregardless of the fact that they’re summer league, it is IMPOSSIBLE to say Turner is not what we thought he was. Everyone’s probably tired of hearing me say it, but Turner’s never played well when he goes to the next level. He takes time to adapt, and we should have looked at history before christening him the player most ready to play in the NBA. He was out of shape, and had not played in 4 months. If you essentially quit an activity for 4 months, especially a physical activity in which your body must be in peak physical form, you will not be able to play very well. To be weary and cautious is commendable, but abandoning all hope on Evan Turner is unwise. We will look back at ourselves a few months from now and have a good laugh.
i get it
But the gist of my post was to say that even if he turns out good, and he probly will, his greatest good is just not as good as cousins greatest good, especially for our overall team quality.
by saveourbluths on Jul 15, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Cousins does fill a need there’s no arguing that, but remember those red flags. I know you’re nervous about another bad draft pick, but to say what Turner and Cousins WILL be in the future is projection and, respectfully, I think it’s a bit rash that people, not just you, are lowering Turner’s ceiling after a few games.
He was out of shape, and had not played in 4 months.
I don’t think that’s entirely true. Turner said it himself in interviews and in press conferences that he had been working on his game, particularly his out side shot.
I think Turner has probably been working just as hard as John Wall and Cousins. I haven’t paid attention to Summer League to see what any of the other rookies, have been doing. I’d like to know how the other top 10 picks have been performing, as well as Xavier Henry.
What was said was ‘had not played in 4 months’
Evan Turners LAST competetive basketball game before summer league was the ncaa tournament. He didn’t really have to work out for anyone, put any effort forth during the draft process. He was the #2 pick. Cousins had motivation to work out hard for teams cause of the issues AND coming to the combine fat.
Practicing on your own does not ever simulate game conditions.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
So Turner was in exactly the same boat as John Wall. John Wall, while turning the ball over a fair bit, is at first glance living up to the hype.
So then, what’s your view on Turner turning up out of shape and not ready to go?
My counter to this is, Wall can make up for whatever he lacks with his insane athletisism. Turner can’t. After watching the OSL it seems Turner has to be in great shape, fully adjusted and on his game to have the impact we expect.
by Jordan Sams on Jul 15, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
And I think he will come November (so long away).
by Jordan Sams on Jul 15, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Cousins also has HUGE flop potential
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m racking my brain for another comparison and I can’t remember a time when a top pick played so poorly in summer league, especially one who was supposed to be the most NBA ready.
Can’t say I’ve payed too much attention to Summer League, other than the Sixers rookies, but I was hoping some one would start throwing around some names of players who played just as poor.
How did Thabeet play last year?
Thabeet Struggled
but that is different because thabeet was almost expected to struggle and was a highly criticized pick. it was expected for him to go thru growing pains.
turner was supposed to be almost, emphasis on almost, a finished product. 3 collegiate seasons of seasoning. and he didnt play well at all.
For those of you just watching highlights and reading box scores of Kings games (like me), keep in mind Speights put up 18-10-2 in his first Vegas Summer League. Stats aren’t always indicitive of beastness.
I just had a quick read through SB*Nation’s Summer League updates. Certainly sounds (reads) like Cousins is dominating.
He is a lot more agile than I would’ve thought.
Let the Jruth be told.
by guitarmouse35 on Jul 15, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
He had the post moves in college, but yeah he looks like he’s slimmed down.
by Jordan Sams on Jul 15, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m sure he’s looked good, but how has his DREB% been? Overall D? Usage rate? These are things we won’t find out till the regular season. From highlights and stats however; he looks fantastic, and that might be an understatement.
by Jordan Sams on Jul 15, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t remember anyone EVER questioning Cousins basketball ability. In fact many projected him as the second best TALENT in the draft. The reasons cousins slipped in the draft weren’t about ability they were about make up and concerns about coachability and dedication to the game. None of that has truly been tested yet because of a good week or two in Las Vegas.
You don’t judge a draft a month or two after it’s over, you judge it 2-3 years down the line and see what shook out (like dejuan blair, if his knees hold up long term, awesome steal for the spurs, if they collapse as many feared, then teams were smart to pass on him).
Last year tons of people hated the Holiday pick and were whining about Ty lawson.
How many of those people still prefer Ty Lawson be on the sixers.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 12:01 PM PDT reply actions
Steve Kyler at Hoops World
Good question… based on Summer Play,,,,
- - John Wall
- - DeMarcus Cousins
- - Pattrick Paterson
- - Larry Sanders
- - Eric Bledsoe
- - Lance Stephenson
- - Derrick Caracter
Honorable Mentions - Luke Harangody… Ed Davis…
“Bring money to Big Rock in Mojave Desert at dawn… Toodle-oo”
Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?chat_topics_id=1064&status=Inactive#ixzz0tmNDwh4G
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 12:02 PM PDT reply actions
I watched the Clippers/Bulls game last night. Bledsoe was abysmal. Completely destroyed by journeyman John Lucas III. Didn’t score his first basket until less than 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter(!) Twice as many turnovers as assists. I think he had something like 4 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 9 turnovers, while playing almost the whole game. He was like 1-10 shooting, 2-8 FT, something like that. Horrific. I actually felt sorry for him…he had this beaten look on his face, really made you feel bad for him.
I will say only this...
…after his first Summer League, Speights was awesome. Totally dominant.
…after his first Summer League, Jrue was a bust. Completely useless.
I wasn’t here last year, but I’m sure there were plenty of people ready to run Jrue out of town after a few summer games. And I’m equally sure there were plenty of people trumpeting how awesome Speights was going to be.
And does anyone remember how awesome Jason Smith was (I think it was last year), before he got hurt? In the end, he was Jason Smith after all. And Speights, well, he is a sad disappointment. And Jrue is the one hope this team has, despite sucking last year in Summer League.
Jrue was a project, and he did one thing really well: defend. Turner not so much. I’m not saying he’s a bust, just saying comparing him to Jrue might not be the best comparison.
by Jordan Sams on Jul 15, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
So the warriors got sold for 450 million dollars, and Larry Ellison got out bid, but a hollywood producer now owns the warrios, and man do those folks know how to spend money.
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 15, 2010 12:12 PM PDT reply actions
Who else thinks Sacto will trade Sammy D just before the deadline in February?
Then we’ll see what he really was worth.
Absolutely.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 15, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Hawes and Nocioni?
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Yeah, it would be nice. Then we would have a legit center AND he would be coming off the books after the season ends :)
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
A dedicated – Post your lies about how you were right about cousins all along – post would be helpful to let all the flip floppers have one place to express their opinion
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 16, 2010 8:48 AM PDT reply actions
I have no doubt that there will be at least one person a week who wants to compare the numbers
by SportingFanaticism on Jul 16, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Can I brag about having Cousins over Favors in all of the big boards? No, because it’s summer league and there wasn’t a person in the world who didn’t think Cousins was tremendously talented or that Favors needed plenty of time to develop or that Turner would have trouble initially playing off the ball. Summer league changes nothing.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 16, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Only if you’re okay with being lambasted by the best lambaster this side of the Mississippi.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jul 16, 2010 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
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