Poll: Turner, Favors or Cousins?
by Jordan Sams on Jun 6, 2010 12:00 AM PDT
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PrintWe're officially 19 days away from the NBA Draft, and the plot is thickening. Will the Sixers keep the pick? Trade it? Will they draft Turner? Favors? Cousins? Paul George?!
The night of the lottery I posted a poll in which 1,100 of you voted. 79% of you wanted the Sixers to take Evan Turner number two. 6% wanted Favors and 11% wanted Cousins. While Turner still seems to be the fan favorite, I wanted to conduct the same poll to find out if the margin between Turner and the field has narrowed. Did my Case for Derrick Favors persuade anyone? What about the pre-draft measurements?
Take the poll!
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Voted Turner
I originally was afraid of us picking Turner. I was worried he’d be another Blake Griffin/Greg Oden disappointment. But, after hearing how positive everybody is about him (like EB), I am coming around. Hopefully, I am not being sucked into a foolish notion of “Evan Turner will save our Sixers.”
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
How is he in any way like Griffin and Oden?
by Michael Levin on Jun 6, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I am simply worried he won’t pan out in the NBA. Just because players are highly touted/drafted doesn’t mean they end up stars. Remember Kwame Brown?
There has been a lot of murmuring about Turner either not translating to the NBA, or not being the right player for the Sixers. It had me worried.
I am less so now.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
by chillicothe20 on Jun 6, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s just not an argument. The reason players are highly touted is because they are that talented. Sure, some don’t pan out, but to reference two guys who’ve had injury problems early in their careers and one with attitude and work ethic problems who came out of high school in a weak draft and say that you’re worried about drafting the national player of the year with projectability is very misguided.
by Michael Levin on Jun 6, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m glad it’s misguided. Probably just part of my general nerouticism anyway. I want Turner to make the Sixers into champions.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
by chillicothe20 on Jun 6, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions
we need turner. not just for the team but i think that if we dont get turner ticket sales are gonna go down. and then lukko/sneider should know its time to fire ed stifanski
are you kidding me, Blake Griffin is gonna be a beast, did you see how he tore up the Preseason before he got hurt
He's back
Favors has more potential
the nba draft is based by potential. believe it or not if it wasn’t such a weak guard draft then john wall might not even b the number one pick.
Favors is the youngest player in the draft has the most upside and rite now stands like a josh smith type player. However if he hits the weight room and gains more weight insiders said that they wouldnt b surprised if he ends up like a stoudamire or Howard. he has the most upside out of everyone in the draft and if it wasn’t a solid number one pick in wall there wouldn’t have been any reason that his stock could have rising into becoming the number one pick.
" believe it or not if it wasn’t such a weak guard draft then john wall might not even b the number one pick."
Um, this doesn’t make sense. So are you saying if there was more abundance of guards that would affect Wall’s chances of landing #1? Are you putting need over value? The team that drafts Wall won’t be drafting him because they absolutely need a PG. They are drafting him because he’s the best player in the draft.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Sorry for the long post...
I asked this at real GM…
Here are the last 25 #2 overall picks. Where will Turner/Favors/Cousins end up on this list? Its a pretty top heavy list, and I expect all 3 to end up in the top 3rd:
Jason Kidd
Gary Payton
Alonzo Mourning
Durant
Mike Bibby
Rik Smits
Marcus Camby
Steve Francis
Antonio McDyess
LaMarcus Aldridge
Kenny Anderson
Okafor
Keith Van Horn
Tyson Chandler
Wayman Tisdale
Armon Gilliam
Danny Ferry
Marvin Williams
Beasley
Shawn Bradley
Darko
Stromile Swift
Sam Bowie
Jay Williams
There are about 4 out of 20 names on that list that a team could sensibly “build around”.
Perhaps taking stock of those odds will make people wait a little before they make grand designs for building around one this year’s prospects at #2 who hasn’t played in the NBA yet, or reconsider if they declare that they will never watch the Sixers again should they trade the pick.
The #2 Pick All-Star Team
C: Darko
PF: Stro Swift
SF: Marvin Williams
SG: (surprisingly no SG’s picked here…can we say Van Horn was an SG because he was the softest big ever?)
PG: Jay Williams
6th Man: Shawn Bradley
This list plus the nice depth in this draft, tells me the Sixers are better off trading down for multiple picks. To me, Turner looks like a good ball player. But he doesn’t look like he has as much NBA level talent as a Mourning, Kidd, McDyess(injury killed him), Durant, or Payton.
If we could trade with Minny and get the 4th, 16th, and 21st, or something like that, then I think that gives us a better chance of re-shaping our team.
Turner is the safe pick…..but I think you either go bold in the draft or end up with ordinary results.
I think you either go bold in the draft or end up with ordinary results.
huh?
the sonics (thunder) went with the safe pick with durant – clearly those results are ordinary
the bulls went with the safe pick of derrick rose – clearly ordinary
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 8, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Like I said I don’t think Turner has Durant’s NBA talent level
Also Rose wasn’t drafted 2nd overall…..he was drafted 1st I think.
That wasn’t the point of bringing up derrick rose – it was bringing up the ‘go bold or you end up with ordinary results’ comment which was both ridiculous and baffling…rose was the projected #1 so they went with the ‘ordinary’ and not the bold and that turned out pretty well yet they weren’t ‘bold’
by jemagee on Jun 8, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
so you only go ‘bold’ if its the second pick? everything else is null and void?
in that case the hawks went ‘bold’ in 2005 picking upside and athletic ability in marvin williams while passing up the safe picks (when they needed a pg) in chris paul and deron williams – that turned out well didn’t it
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 8, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It did cause they stunk longer and it allowed them to get josh smith
at least that’s the argument someone used once
by jemagee on Jun 8, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
yea i’ve heard that argument too – and it’s awful haha
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 8, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
However, if you think favors and turner are close in upside the argument to draft favors and stink for another year might have slightly more merit this year – i mean – they are closer in ‘evaluation’ than williams was to either of the PG’s (who are now basically the two best in the game who aren’t dirty canadians)
by jemagee on Jun 8, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
if everything goes according to plan it makes sense – the downside is a player could turn into what marvin williams is
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 8, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Here are the last 25 1st overall picks. It is obviously a little safer to go with the consensus pick at 1 and get a real good player. If we had the number one pick this year for instance, I would be less inclined to trade down.
Year Name Team School/Country
2008 Derrick Rose Chicago Memphis
2007 Greg Oden Portland Ohio State
2006 Andrea Bargnani Toronto Italy
2005 Andrew Bogut Milwaukee Utah
2004 Dwight Howard Orlando SW Atlanta Christian Academy (GA)
2003 LeBron James Cleveland St. Vincent-St. Mary HS (OH)
2002 Yao Ming Houston China
2001 Kwame Brown Washington Glynn Academy
2000 Kenyon Martin New Jersey Nets Cincinnati
1999 Elton Brand Chicago Bulls Duke
1998 Michael Olowokandi Los Angeles Clippers Pacific (Cal.)
1997 Tim Duncan San Antonio Wake Forest
1996 Allen Iverson Philadelphia Georgetown
1995 Joe Smith Golden State Maryland
1994 Glenn Robinson Milwaukee Purdue
1993 Chris Webber Orlando Michigan
1992 Shaquille O’Neal Orlando Louisiana State
1991 Larry Johnson Charlotte Nevada-Las Vegas
1990 Derrick Coleman New Jersey Syracuse
1989 Pervis Ellison Sacramento Louisville
1988 Danny Manning L.A. Clippers Kansas
1987 David Robinson San Antonio Navy
1986 Brad Daugherty Cleveland North Carolina
1985 Patrick Ewing New York Georgetown
1984 Hakeem Olajuwon
I’m pretty sure this doesn’t prove your point
by Michael Levin on Jun 9, 2010 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions
let’s look to the judges…… yes you are correct
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 9, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
There is only one judge
Me
and like damocles my sword is ready to drop
by jemagee on Jun 9, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
or like mike balls (ready to drop?)
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 9, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions
More than half of those number 1’s were real good players. And some of them took turns for 2 or 3 year stretches as the best basketball player on the planet.
My point is there is a big difference between the consensus number 1 pick and the number 2. The Consensus is a little smarter naturally with the number 1.
I’m curios to see which ones you think were the ‘best basketball player on the planet’
Cause for most of the late 80’s, 90s, etc….it was jordan (who wasn’t a #1 pick) and then it was kobe or lebron (only one of whom was a #1 pick.
So I’m curios as to which ones of these guys qualified as best on the planet?
by jemagee on Jun 9, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
So your point is that the guy picked before another guy is typically better? Talk about going out on a limb. Visionary.
by Michael Levin on Jun 9, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I think what he’s trying to say is that #1 picks are awesome so he wouldn’t trade down if he had the #1 pick, but #2 picks have sucked so Turner is going to suck so you might as well trade down.
by yosoysean on Jun 9, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well based on the early results…my question is, what has changed? Less votes for Turner and more for Favors…why?
Just curious.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Personally speaking, I’m very interested in Favors’ upside in comparison to Turner. We all know Turner will be a fundamentally solid and successful player in the NBA, play above average defense, and be an efficient scorer. The image of Jrue dishing to Favors for the better part of a decade or more captivates me. It’s a Win Win situation regardless of who you want really.
I kind of agree with you. While I want them to pick Turner, I feel like Favors is better for them in the long run and since I don’t see them as a team that is ready to compete for a title next year or the year after, I don’t see a problem with drafting someone that will have more of an impact down the road. Plus, I don’t see a huge difference in skill and potential between Turner and Favors.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
voted cousins
We need a big. Dalembert is not our answer
And you think a head case with effort issues is the answer?
(that sounds totally dickish but I promise I don’t mean it that way)
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
If we'd been at #3 sure
but since we actually have a chance at Turner, we can’t pass it up.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
by chillicothe20 on Jun 6, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Turner no doubt
If the Sixers pass up on him they WILL regret it for YEARS. He is READY to play in the bigs and he has the body and skills for it. He may not be the most explosive but he reminds me a little bit like Brandon Roy in that he creates his shot very well and he has a little bit of Kevin Durant in him sans his outside shooting. I also don’t want to pick a big man (especially not Cousins) this year because we have to get our money’s worth out of Brand while we have him. Turner is gonna give us an elite defensive backcourt, which we have lacked for YEARS with the absence of a true PG or SG defender (until Jrue came), but we still lacked a defender at the 2 guard. I think we should get Turner and then wait until the trade deadline to pull a deal where they would send away Iguodala and Dalembert/Brand(if possible) and get one of the elite big men.
For the Cousin-ites.
Two things I constantly hear:
1. Favors destroyed Cousins in high school.
2. Favors won the MVP at both the Jordan Brand Classic and McDonald’s All-American game.
That’s gotta mean something right? If he comes straight outta high school, he’s the number one pick. But would he have been Dwight or Kwame?
If Favors enters the NBA straight out of HS, his defensive presence is felt from day one, no doubt. I’d bet his offensive game would come to him by the end of the year, but he wouldn’t average a double double like D Howard in his rookie season.
Howard Rookie Year Stats: 32.6 MPG, 3.7 OR, 6.5 DEF, 10.0 RPG, 1.7 BPG, 12.0 PPG on 52% shooting.
I see Favors putting up similar numbers in his first season in the NBA, especially in terms of Blocks, and Rebounding. Favors has had a year to mature and I don’t think he’ll be as raw starting off as people project him to be.
As far as who is more likely to average a double-double in year one, I think Cousins is the obvious choice over Favors. That being said, I don’t know who will have the better career. But Cousins is way ahead of Favors offensively.
Don’t forget that Favors may have to compete with Lopez for both rebounds and offensive opportunities. His offensive game is also far less developed than Cousins.
There is never a mention of Turner!s back yet Roy had leg issues that caused him to drop in his draft; is it no issue to the n.b.a. g.m.!s at all?
Sometime I think great players slip because GM’s like to show how brilliant they are by drafting the unpolished diamond who develops into a star. They look a gift horse in the mouth by passing on the already established stud like Turner.
I’m sure there are more clichés I could throw out there, but I will save them for future posts.
I totally agree with your Duncan comparison a few weeks ago and how “fundamentally sound” becomes a bad quality as you get closer to the draft.
by deepsixersuede on Jun 6, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
If we pick Favors then the line up could be holiday, iggy, young, brand, favors(if he hits the weight room) or he plays pf and sammy plays center. If we pick turner it would be holiday, turner, iggy, and then what?? young?? brand?? do we go with a small line up or let young rot on the bench?
If Turner is the pick, the line up is Jrue, Turner, Andre, Brand, Dalembert. If we draft Favors i think he starts on the bench.
by Michael Levin on Jun 6, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
My fear is the nets get Favors and than Lebron, that is outright scary. But we would have to learn to deal with it.
dont worry
lebronwill probably go to chicago. That should be an even greater fear. LOL.
http://vault.ncaa.com/?game=306SR169_s01&seconds=90
Free and legal game stream from NCAA… stream from Turner’s last game of the year. Loss against Tennessee in Sweet Sixteen- but Turner had a great game.
assuming
why is everyone assuming iggy and dalemebert will be with the team? My gut says, their gone.
Because they are under contract. I’d say it’s a lovely assumption.
by Michael Levin on Jun 6, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
i think all of them can fit on the roster and all of them have great potential, and in fact, all of them have unique pros/cons that could attract or scare you from choosing them. that’s why i don’t really think the Sixers can go wrong here.
no one can foresee what happens in 10 years, so they just need to establish a plan. how do they want to play on offense? what is their defensive philosophy going to be? who is going to be the leader? i think those are some of the questions that the Sixers need to answer so that the pick can fit the mold of the team.
Leaning towards Favors, but Turner will be the selection
Favors may have a much bigger upside than Turner, but the Franchise needs to fill their arena, thus Turner probally will be the pick by the team. Evan Turner will be an immediate impact player that will get everyone exited about the team once again, where Favors may need some developmental time to excel on the next level. In the long run, Favors may become the better player, but the team desperately needs to bring back the fans, where I just do not see Favors bring the juice that Turner will provide right away.
On pure talent cousins is the pick – i wish he wasn’t such an utter douche
Not only would there be 4 ‘valuable’ #2 picks it would give the sixers amazing bargaining power with the wolves and nets while still getting a very good piece out of the draft.
Sigh, damn you demarcus for being such a tool
by jemagee on Jun 8, 2010 9:01 AM PDT reply actions
I wish I had the opportunity to pick his brain and see what makes him tick. People saying he’s going to be a bust because he physically dominated, clearly didn’t watch him play. He’s got some seriously solid footwork and post moves that between his “attitude” and his physical play, get overshadowed I think.
Most people who say he’s going to be a bust say so because of his work ethic and demeanor
He had a chance to change all that come combine
He gave bad interviews AND he was fat
So work ethic and demeanor fail
I’ve read nothing since then that indicates he’s impressing anyone in his interviews….he’ll got top 5-7 because of talent – but if he wasn’t a douche he’d probably go 1 or 2
by jemagee on Jun 8, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Great ideas guys. I am sure that all you in favor of Favors or Cousins will be so kind to sixers managment if they turn out to be Kwame Brown and Kenyon Martin. There is one thing for sure, there is so much bias in favor of the tall guys in this league that if there was a serious chance for them to become great, Turner would be the consensus no4!! There are only 2 good basketball players in the 2010 draft all the rest have just “potential” they may be some Boozers but there will always be more Tskitishvili’s and Sharone Wright’s.
If you are tired of losing and you want to see a true star leading the team to the finals again there’s no other choice, if you like gumbling just go to Vegas
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