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Tuesday Tish Tosh

This is your Tuesday discussion thread people. Depending on how you read that sentence, I could have just called you Thread People. I don't think that's an insult, but let me know if it is and I'll use it more often to describe you.  Use this post as a talk about whatever lazy Tuesday.  Orlando Summer League starts next week and if you hadn't heard, the Sixers aren't skimping out this year and actually fielding their own team. I blame all of their problems last year on splitting the Summer League with the Nets. Lesson: Don't mess with the Summer League gods.

Here's an Inquirer article about Turner/Holiday/Williams.

The coach told Williams not to assume that anyone already has been anointed a starter.  Williams said he would welcome that role as long as he is given an opportunity to start, according to Collins.

I don't want to see this happen. I'd rather not give him any opportunity to start, package him and Thaddeus for an actual back-up point guard, preferably one that is young, and expiring contract, and a future first. What kind of value do you think is out there for Thad/Lou?  Is Collins really going to go Brand at the 5 and let Thad start at power forward again?

Discuss!

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Collins is probably just trying to motivate everyone to work hard on defense. Obviously, Lou could use some Serious motivation on that end of the floor. There’s probably no way Lou wins the job if Jrue keeps doing what he does.

After last season, I think it would be in the Sixers best interest to get Lou and Thad off to a solid start so they have more value before any deals are made.

Personally, I want to see where both these players could be in 2 years with a detail oriented coach like Collins.

by M82 on Jun 29, 2010 6:26 AM PDT reply actions  

I’m hoping that in two years Lou is on another team, having been exchanged for a draft pick and some expiring money.

by dweebowitz on Jun 29, 2010 6:44 AM PDT reply actions  

Maybe Lou will have some value in the 2012-13 season when he’s at 6 million in his last year. I’m not sure too many teams would be real interested in him right now – Maybe a team like Golden State if they get rid of Ellis? I guess that’s why I’d rather see if he can gain value before his contract is up.

by M82 on Jun 29, 2010 7:03 AM PDT reply actions  

Is it bad that I’m already looking forward to the 2011 Draft?

by yosoysean on Jun 29, 2010 7:23 AM PDT reply actions  

Louis Williams isn’t an NBA starter, anyone who thinks he is should not work for an NBA team. Dear God I hope collins is just blowing smoke up his skirt.

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 7:34 AM PDT reply actions  

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-heisler-phil-jackson-20100624,0,4254030.column? track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:latimes/sports/basketball/nba/lakers (Lakers+Blog)

Lamar Odom could be on the block because the Lakers are having trouble with money, does anybody think we should try and get him?

As for Lou starting I think he would have to severely outplay Jrue to start

by The Legend on Jun 29, 2010 7:40 AM PDT reply actions  

A link that works

And as for this (old) report that came out shortly after the season ended, it’s bull…the lakers still probably cleared 30 to 40 million in PROFIT last year (yes, PROFIT even paying the luxury tax comcast, see how that works) and if they DOUBLED the cost of laker seats – they’d still sell out every game.

This rumor that Phil Jackson will be asked to take a pay cut has blown up into every one thinking the lakes are going to trade players to save money.

I think Jerry Buss is a scum bucket, who lives his life llike he’s 22 and thinks he’s above us all, but he’s the kind of owner a professional sports owner SHOULD be – and as long as he thinks the lakers cna win a title, he will pay the money.

If Phil is just posturing because of money instead of his knee -buss will pony up – because buss knows keeping phil makes him more money than it costs him

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Odom is a good fit for the Lakers as a 6th man.

At 31 this fall and without a position Odom would be a poor fit on the Sixers.

Now if Bynum was healthy a Bynum for Iguodala trade would make sense (Bynum is 22)- but Bynum is not healthy.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

If Bynum were healthy how would that make sense for the Lakers?

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

So Gasol can start at the 5 and Odom at the four, with Iguodala playing opposite Kobe on the wing? I suppose that’d make sense. Don’t think the Lakers do that though

by Michael Levin on Jun 29, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes Ron Artest happy to become bench player

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ron Artest should be happy he starts for any NBA team period. Is there another starting SF in the league who can’t dunk?

by packimop on Jun 29, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your point is what now?

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thread People – like in that movie 9 – which was super cool special effects wise but made absolutely no sense – I mean what the heck was going on there – why bother with the little thread people when all the reals people is dead?

Anyway

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 7:46 AM PDT reply actions  

the short film the guy made was better.

by killacaravagio on Jun 29, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

True :)

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope not

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's my man!

There can only be one Noce!

by NoceOne on Jun 29, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

in a crazy, mixed-up world where 8th men off the bench start…yes, he will be starting.

"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan

by jefu on Jun 29, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe he will be our next Willie Green? He always managed to get his fair share of starts.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Was Willie Green a future MVP?

"Oh, y ahora ¿quién podrá defenderme?" "¡Yo!"

by chapuforyou on Jun 30, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

The deal with Willie is that he always, without fail, is able to fanangle his way into the rotation and receive solid minutes despite A)Production and B) Young players needing to be developed.

by prideoux on Jun 30, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

finagle, good word

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers : @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

He’s got gumption. But if I had my druthers he would be on the bench… druthers is another underutilized part of the language.

by tk76 on Jun 30, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

thanks, dropped the ball on the spelling though..whoops.

by prideoux on Jun 30, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

No. It has been proven in LB Universe that Lou Williams is the future MVP.

Willie Green just has incriminating pictures of Ed Snider and an underage donkey.

by dweebowitz on Jun 30, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Free Agents and MLE

Is there any chance the Sixers use thier MLE or are Comcast adverse to spending money to stay under the luxury tax threshold.

I know Marreese Speights has largely been used as a C, but I believe his best position may be PF.

What’s anyones/everyones thoughts on Brendan Haywood? I know I would certainly like to see a veteran C added to the squad.

by briztoon on Jun 29, 2010 10:20 AM PDT reply actions  

The evidence (Sam Dalembert trade for instance, the ‘one year offer’ to andre miller) is that the most important thing to the sixers is staying under the luxury tax. I supposed there’s a CHANCE that they use their MLE but I wouldn’t put it at high and I wouldn’t say that it would matter to the long term health of this team winning games.

Haywood is a strong MLE candidate, but teams that have a chance of, you know, winning have a better shot at him than the sixers even if they were willing to spend

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wonder what Collins wants. To genuinley contend in the east this coming season with a some what limited roster, or to build over the next 3 years to then contend in the east. Either return to mediocrity now, or suck next seasona nd hope for a high draft paick to then contend in a few years time. Will Collins be given time?

by briztoon on Jun 29, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Collins gets at least 3 years, probably more. We’re not gonna suck next season but he’s not going to go all out on a one year playoff run.

by Michael Levin on Jun 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

. We’re not gonna suck next season but he’s not going to go all out on a one year playoff run.

Top 5 lottery team isn’t sucking?

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because they added a rookie who will need time to adjust – gave away their best (only) defensive big man presence and made doug collins the coach?

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Bet you an LB shirt we’re not a bottom 5 team in the league next year.

we don’t condone betting

by Michael Levin on Jun 29, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I make no predictions about the sixers record until all rosters are set…too much fluidity this year.

Keep in mind the sixers were one of the worst teams IN THE WORST DIVISION last year…(sure no one reads my SOS thing)…and gave up the best player for what was one of their few strengths.

Doug Collins is not a magic man

(PS – one could argue that being in the top 5 (or 3) of the lottery is the best thing for the long term hopes of the sixers)

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

(PS – one could argue that being in the top 5 (or 3) of the lottery is the best thing for the long term hopes of the sixers)

That depends if the top end talent of next years draft matches one of our team needs.

by briztoon on Jun 29, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh I’d love being top 3-5 lotto team. I’m just saying I think last year was a terribly down year with an awful coach and players who could not play together. With development from Jrue and Speights, and the additions of Turner, Hawes, Nocioni and Collins, I think we’re closer to 12-14. And I think Brand/Iguodala play better this season as well.

by Michael Levin on Jun 29, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I see about 35 wins.

IMO Turner will come in as a top 50 NBA player. Jrue will be much improved. Speights will be healthier. Coach will not be trying to prove a point through losing (EJ tried to show management that the square peg would not fit- much like he did the first season at his prior jobs.)

So unless Iguodala is traded/hurt, I don’t think a lousy frontcourt is enoghht to keep them under 30 wins. But it will keep them from being anywhere near good.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I believe Collins’ contract is for 4 years.

by mopey on Jun 29, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah I wouldn’t waste money on a vet center that’s just going to slow development of Hawes and Speights. Throw them into the fire, let them get better.

by Michael Levin on Jun 29, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

WOJ reporting Nets have traded Yi Jianlian to the Wizards for Quinton Ross, putting them 30 mil under the cap.

by prideoux on Jun 29, 2010 10:26 AM PDT reply actions  

INtersting if true – the Nets have to have some inside dope that they’re a player to make a move like that I would think – but I can’t see them being a real player.

And pushing thorn out the door – big mistake (another person who is better than stefanski)

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmm.
So if they can sign Bosh and say Johnson, they would have a glaring hole at SF…..

As one who is in favor of the nuclear option of building, I would then offer Iggy of Favors and change…..

Nothing wrong with Iguodola, but by doing this, their PF for the future is now here and they still would suck enough in the coming year to be in the lottery and get their future C or SF…..

Just sayin….

by Howardmgm3 on Jun 29, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Those are some big if’s – and doubtful if’s at that (at least on the bosh thing)

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Absolutely some major ifs there!! :))

by Howardmgm3 on Jun 29, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Chad Ford has it on Twitter as well

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

I wrote on reclinergm, that I think Lebron and Bosh should go to the Nets (although it won’t happen.)

They are moving to Brooklyn, and they can change their name to “la Familia.”

Harris(27),Lee(24), Lebron(25),Bosh(26),Lopez(22)
bench: Favors(19), Williams(23)

A long time winner, in NY, with an owner who is willing to use “any means necessary” to win.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m with you – esepcaiily the owner thing – others argue that the bulls are a better optoin – but is reinsdorf gonna pay the tax to keep noah and rose AND bring in the complimentary pieces (3 point shooter, defensive stopper) you need to win a title?

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

And there has never been a multiple championship NBA winner in NY? You win in Chicago and they start talking MJ…

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rose is a much better player than Harris, but Harris really fits better with that group because he can shoot and platy off the ball. Even Lee is a nice fit as a 5th man, shooter. Williams is a nice glue guy as well who like Harris, can defend and run (although it hurts them that he can’t shoot.)

And Favors could really put that squad over the top if he develops into a defensive stud. that frontcourt rotation could quickly become second to none.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Getting everyone to compete is a good way for the coach to start, he can’t afford to have anyone comfortable considering the way they played last season. Lou Williams could be a starting point guard on a good NBA team. Whether he gets to do that for the Sixers or not is less important than if he makes progress towards becoming a more complete guard.

I am excited about the Summer League since we’ll have Jrue and Evan and Speights. I was very happy to learn that Speights had gone to Las Vegas to do some workouts with Impact Basketball. It shows that he is serious about becoming a better player. I wonder who else will be on the Summer league team, and when the roster will be announced.

by RickoT on Jun 29, 2010 11:17 AM PDT reply actions  

I was surprised at the start of last season how well Lou was playing. At least on paper anyway. It appeared he was playing much more under controll, his assists were up and his turnovers were down.

I do believe Lou can play point guard, but am unsure if it’s his natural game.

by briztoon on Jun 29, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lou could play starting “scoring guard” on a good team. Not sure he could be relied upon tpo truly run the point- but several teams have “point forwards.”

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree that lou could be starting anything on a good team, his height and defensive liabilities make him at best a good bench player on a good team (i think i once posited he could be sixth man of the year – but that’s the upside i see for lou)

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

There have been some pretty bad 5th starters on great teams… but you are probably right.

Was BJ Armstrong, Trent Tucker or Paxson much on defense? Of course those guys could really shoot.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Joe Johnson is a highly sought after free agent this off season who might get an awful lot of money

ANdre Iguodala is not a free agent, he’s not going to get a lot of money and many people think he’s over paid

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=lXhym

Those are career numbers to date – and of course, Iguodala is younger.

THe perception around the league is that Joe Johnson is an all star and Andre Iguodala is a guy who needs to be traded cause he doesn’t fit with Evan Turner

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 11:20 AM PDT reply actions  

I do not agree that he does not fit with Evan Turner. They might work very well together. And he is a top 8 (5?) SF in this league which is great.
I am willing however to take the chance that Favors becomes a top 5 PF in a couple of years though and is 8 years younger. And is more a position of need for the SIxers. And would also mean they suck more this year as the young guys develop and gives the Sixers another lottery choice.
Looking at the long term picture, that’s all.

by Howardmgm3 on Jun 29, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t agree that he doesn’t fit with Evan Turner yet

My primary point is that Joe Johnson is seen by many as very valuable – and much more valuable than Iguodala – and I don’t believe that the perceptoin is fact.

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

Overall as players they are comparable. But if you are biased towards productivity within a half court offense, then it is not even close. And a lot of teams expect their “star” to carry the load in the half court offense. Iguodala is terribly miscast in this role- but the rest of his game is great.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Again though, that ignores defense…if the maxim is true that ‘defense wins championships’ then the defense of a player should be just as valuable as the offense (if not more so)

Defense is always there – even on off shooting nights

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Smart or not, a lot of teams a constructed where your star is the best player on offense, while your role players add defense… or was that just the 2001 team :)

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Might just be the 2001 sixers

TK – click this link

http://aintitcool.com/node/45603

If this doesn’t giver you nostalgia for your childhood – I’m ashamed of you

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will check when I get home.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was more of a Speed Racer than a Star Blazers fan.

Then again, by that age I was probably watching Silver Spoons or The Jeffersons… or if I was watching a cartoon it was He-Man.

by tk76 on Jun 29, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

And i was watching ALL of those

Plus Voltron gforce and tons of others

by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Being a good player used to mean that they played defense. Scoring was always a part of it, but players who outworked their opponents and took the ball away or pressured them into making a bad shots were the really good ones. It is a matter of effort more than ability, just working to stay in front of your man. MJ worked his butt off on defense and so does Kobe.

On good teams, they always play defense. They plan to from the very beginning of the game, just like they plan to score. One player playing defense doesn’t stop anything, you need all five players defending to be a good team.

But if you have a player who wants to play defense like Iguodala, that makes him more valuable, IMO than a Joe Johnson who doesn’t seem to care. And the more players on your team who tend to play good defense, the better.

by RickoT on Jun 29, 2010 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

This would be great if the Sixers had any significant cap space that off season…oh wait…they had that, and then they traded it to Sacramento for what appears to be a bust and a two year contract.

Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!

by EREX21 on Jun 29, 2010 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

We’ll definitely overpay for Thad after this season, I really feel like that’s almost a given. Hopefully Hawes blows out his knee or something and gives us a reason not to resign him. As for Willie, he’ll probably leave and try to get his last long deal with another team, and Kapono should be dealt by the deadline. I hope.

In my ideal world, Hawes and Thad play out of their minds, and we deal them for something. See a contract year for what it is and deal them for more than they’re worth. This applies more to Hawes than Thad IMO but regardless…

by prideoux on Jun 29, 2010 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Someone else is going to sign Willie Green?

by packimop on Jun 29, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

“he’ll probably leave and TRY to get his last long deal…”

by prideoux on Jun 29, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly, if I’m willie green, this is the year to go out there – teams are going to swing and miss and with a good agent he could get a 4-5 years deal for 5 mil per

no way he gets that after the new CBA

by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like LW, but Jrue should be the PG of this team for the next dozen or so years.

by sec-106 on Jun 29, 2010 7:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Doc Rivers will coach the celtics next year

by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 11:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Took a pay raise and he’ll honor his last year, " With the blessing of my family and time away I want to try one more time with this group" One last proverbial hurrah it seems like, don’t like their chances with Perkins nearly blowing out his knee.

by prideoux on Jun 30, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dan LeBatard: I hear bosh-miami is done ..bosh-wade shared agent avoids tampering…its why beasley, chalmers, anthony still here…raptors get them Twitter

by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:01 PM PDT reply actions  

doesn’t he know anthony opted out last week?

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers : @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he means Joel Anthony, not Carmelo :)

by Derek Bodner on Jun 30, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

yea i know, joel anthony opted out the day of the draft i belive

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers : @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

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