The "What If" Chronicles: LeBron James
July 1st is a few days away as of this writing and EVERBODY. IS. SCRAMBLING. TO. TALK. ABOUT. LBJ. Since I hate being left out in the cold with naught but a small towel to cover my genitals (it's a really small towel), I decided to take shelter in the Motel LeBron at 54 bucks a night plus cable. The first of what may or may not be a recurring segment here at Slippery Brawlers, I take a look at what would happen if LeBron James went clinically insane and signed for the Mid-Level Exception for your Philadelphia 76ers. Please be aware that none of this, and I mean none of it, will ever happen in your or my lifetime. Every word you are about to read is false down to its core. Except this one. And this one. Et al.
If you are someone who gets overly excited about reading fanatical words and goes to the northwestern United States in hopes of seeing the Cullen family in action, I don't recommend reading on. But if you're just hankerin' for some good country B.S., by all means be my guest. You can warm your mukluks by the fire. Coffee's in the kitchen, ask Marie to get you some. Continental Breakfast available from 9 to 12 tomorrow morning. This motel metaphor working for anybody?
I'll meet you inside after the jump.
Forgetting every logical, contractual, sembiotical fact, imagine LeBron James signs with the Sixers in a few days. Then what? Move Andre? Package Turner with Brand to get rid of Elton's fat contract? Move Jrue with Elton and slide Turner to point guard with Andre and Bron at the wings? The possibilities are endless. I'm gonna pick my favorite hypothetical and run with it, then see what happens.
Keep everyone.
Move Brand to the 5 and run a 3-wing set out there. Is it ideal defensively for LeBron to be bumping up against power forwards in the post? No. But since we're dealing exclusively with the absurd, we'll forget about the impact that would have on LeBron's LeBody and move on. Imagine teams having to gameplan for Iguodala, Turner, and James. Who could defend that? The offense would have to consist of tons of spacing and cutting resulting in open looks from deep. Brand would play much more with his back to the basket, and success would hinge on hitting shots off penetration. Nocioni and Kapono would be tremendously valuable camping on the wings, but that's not nearly as entertaining to ponder as Evan and Andre so they can stay on the bench.
Let's look at this roster and how it matches up against the World Champion Los Angeles Lakers.
PG - Jrue Holiday, Louis Williams
SG - Evan Turner, Jodie Meeks, Willie Green
SF - Andre Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, Andres Nocioni, Jason Kapono
PF - LeBron James, Marreese Speights, Jason Smith
C - Elton Brand, Spencer Hawes
I think in this instance, we'd move Lou and Thad for a backup point guard and a pick, but let's leave them in here anyway. While Brand is your only frontcourt player, the rest of the starters are tremendous rebounders for their position so I don't think I'd be too worried. Here's the Lakers projected lineup with a few liberties taken by myself:
PG - Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar
SG - Kobe Bryant, Shannon Brown, Sasha Vujacic
SF - Ron Artest, Luke Walton, Devin Ebanks, Adam Morrison
PF - Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Derrick Caracter
C - Andrew Bynum
Who budges first? Do the Sixers move Turner or Iguodala to the bench in favor of Speights or Hawes to body up on one of the other big men? Or, again, move Holiday and slide Turner to the point so one of the other bigs can step in. If nobody budges, LeBron would have to cover Gasol with Brand on Bynum. Neither of those matchups is good for us. I'd imagine plenty of rotations for our the 5 spot.
But on the other side of the coin, run through the defensive nightmares for whoever coaches the Lake Show next season. Gasol or Bynum would have to cover LeBron/Andre/Turner here. I don't think that's a possibility. I'd bet they leave Odom in at the 4 for most of the game and sub Bynum and Gasol back and forth. Ron-Ron would cover Bron-Bron, Kobe would D up on Turner, and Lamar would have to stick Andre. It's less painful for the Lakers, but still a huge mismatch in our favor. And this isn't even mentioning the advantages Jrue would have over the aging Derek Fisher, nor the fact that the Lakers are the best and one of the most versatile teams in the league and against anyone else aside from maybe the Thunder, nobody can stick us. Actually, let's look at Oklahoma City for a second.
PG - Russell Westbrook, Eric Maynor, Kyle Weaver
SG - James Harden, Daequan Cook
SF - Kevin Durant, Thabo Sefolosha, Morris Peterson
PF - Jeff Green, Serge Ibaka, Nick Collison, D.J. White
C - Cole Aldrich, Nenad Krstic, B.J. Mullens
Wow. I think LeBron eats up any of Harden/Durant/Green/Thabo, but let's just say Green sticks him. Durant on Iguodala? Harden on Turner makes sense, and Westbrook-Holiday would be a nice matchup. Cole and Brand have similar styles offensively, with Cole having a size advantage and a few post moves to his credit. It remains to be seen how OKC weaves in new guys, but I'd say one of Collison/Krstic is gone before the season starts. Ryan Reid will not make this roster, and I'm letting Latavious Williams stay in the D-League for a while. This is a heckuva team though, and I'd love to see how this game would play out.
James obviously makes any team a title contender and the Sixers are certainly no different. Now let's all put away the incense and enjoy the LeBron media donkey show that will be airing on national television over the next however-long-he-wants-to-draw-this-thing-out. Use this as a LeBron thread for where you think he's going to end up and what the fallout would be for the rest of the league. Or just drop your backpack, lie on the grass, and stare up at the clouds with me and wonder: "What If."
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Sigh, my article was really that bad it led to this?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 9:37 AM PDT reply actions
Since I hate being left out in the cold with naught but a small towel to cover my genitals (it’s a really small towel)
were you in the pool?
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
I wasn’t aware he still had genitals…he always struck me as a castrati
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
My predictions..
I think Lebron will either stay in Cleveland or go to Chicago.
Bosh will join Wade in Miami.
Bosh will join Lebron in Chicago – and maybe Amare or Boozer will go to Miami
The best upside winning option I believe for the lebron/bosh combo is New Jersey with lopez and a real point guard – cap money – and an owner who will probably spend as much as cuban…i think they’re the better long term bet than the bulls
The knicks will over pay for joe johnson and probably david lee – and that will be awesome
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Gimme Rose/Noah over Harris/Lopez all day every day.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 28, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Jersey goes after Bosh long term since they just got Favors
by Michael Levin on Jun 28, 2010 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
If you can get lebron and bosh – favors becomes irrelevant – you let him develop as a bench player – but you don’t not sign chris bosh because of derrick favors (especially if you get lebron too)
It’s kind of like passing on john wall if you have jrue holiday (as some suggested)
I’m so tired of Noah love – it’s like David lee love
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
If you can get LeBron, you don’t sign Bosh and instead pick up a shooter for the other wing spot. Ray Allen, Anthony Morrow, Mike Miller, Peja Stojakovic, Michael Redd. For now and for the long term, Favors is better than Bosh on defense, and would make a terrific front court with Lopez. Getting a shooter is more pressing.
And I hate Joakim Noah.
by Michael Levin on Jun 28, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s way too early to say Favors is a better defender than Bosh right now IMO.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 28, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course it is. Just an opinion based on how much I’ve seen them both play.
by Michael Levin on Jun 28, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
he’ll be considered a bust at the third pick if he doesn’t end up being a better defender than bosh – i think it’s just a matter of time before we can definitively say favors’ d is superior
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 28, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
If you can get LeBron, you don’t sign Bosh and instead pick up a shooter for the other wing spot. Ray Allen, Anthony Morrow, Mike Miller, Peja Stojakovic, Michael Redd. For now and for the long term, Favors is better than Bosh on defense, and would make a terrific front court with Lopez. Getting a shooter is more pressing.
And I hate Joakim Noah.
by Michael Levin on Jun 28, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Joakim Noah > Brook Lopez, especially on a team with Bron/Bosh. Noah is infinetly better on defense and rebounding. For someone who hates on Hawes and Speights’ rebounding so much, Lopez should be in the same category.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 28, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I just disagree. I’m disregarding last years stats as outliers for Lopez since the Nets were such a historically bad team, but look at their defensive stats in ’09 for a second.
Lopez: 104.5 DRtg, 7.6 WARP, 0.992 dMULT, 21.2% DR%
Noah: 104.5 DRtg, 7.6 WARP, 1.076 dMULT, 21.3 % DR%
Their defense is comparable. Noah is better on the offensive glass, and Lopez is so much more skilled on the offensive end. I’ll take Lopez in a heartbeat, especially since I believe he’ll continue to improve, while Noah will be the better version of Reggie Evans.
by Michael Levin on Jun 28, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s fair to disregard Lopez’s 09-10, but you can’t simply disregard Noah’s. His 08-09 numbers don’t carry much weight considering he improved every facet of his game this year— from his jump shot and free throws, to rebounding and defense. 27.6% is still better than 21.2% if you throw out Lopez’s numbers last year.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 28, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
g he improved every facet of his game this year—
In his 3rd year, and lopez is only in his second (hence why I compared the first two seasons full seasons for all 3 players)
Lopez is a year behid in experience and a couple years younger than Noah in just years on the planet…the common wisdom is that lopez has more upside from this season than Noah does
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah Lopez will probably make more all star teams, put up better numbers, etc., but gimme Noah’s rebounding, toughness, defense, work ethic + he’s done it on a big stage before.
Lopez is a much better — and will be much better on O — but if he’s playing with LeBron and Bosh, what does that matter?
by Jordan Sams on Jun 28, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
tc., but gimme Noah’s rebounding, toughness, defense, work ethic + he’s done it on a big stage before.
Because he stayed in college for four years – lopez was too talented to stay in college
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
noah left after his junior year
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 28, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought he stayed all four – ah well – but more than Lopez
and jordans love of all those ‘intangibles’ are kind of interesting…
Rose and Noah are above Lopez cause they did it on the ‘big stage’ – and that’s why that kid from butler got drafted so high – lopez only played one year and it’s his fault his team fell short?
Kobe Bryant and Lebron James absolutely SUCKED in college – never played in a single tourney or on a big college stage
They turned out ok
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
lopez played 2 college seasons haha – idk i don’t really take into account how long someone stayed in college as how good or not they might be – our new boy evan turner played 3 seasons, and lance stephenson played one
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 28, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Man my memory is shot today
I find the whole ‘he did it in college’ thing kind of bogus anyway
the bulls have been to the nba playoffs twice, and not won a series,
Jrue Holiday never ‘did it’ on the big stage in college, so I guess he can’t do it on the big stage ever?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Dn’t suppose someone would be nice enough to delete this whole thing here?:)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying Lopez can’t play on a big stage. I’m just saying I liked how Rose and Noah performed in the playoffs.
And yet since Lopez has never been there you ahve no idea whether he could do as well (if not better) Than Noah
Rose and Noah have won as many playoff series as Thaddeus Young haven’t they?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=ukXPk
Yes, after two seasons Noah is a better player (i looked at 3 seasons for sam cause he missed one)
But after his second season, lopez was 21 and Noah was 23.
I’ll take lopez at 21 over noah at 23
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
i just can’t wait for one or two of these teams to get completely shut out in free agency
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 28, 2010 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Well define ‘shut out’ – cause the knicks will sign omsone but i think they’ll miss out on everyone major (in my mind the majors are James, Bosh, Wade, Stat, Boozer, Johnson) but Joe Jhnson
The clippers will miss but that’s expected
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
yea i mean on the major guys – for example, the knicks front office has been telling fans for 2-3 years to wait for 2010 then big things will happen and they’ll end up re-signing david lee and overpay rudy gay or something like that
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 28, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Well again, depends on how you define the major guys
If you think Joe Johnson is one then I think the knicks will at least get one – if the ‘major’ guys are really only wade james and bosh (and i’m sorry, even with a ring, it goes LEBRON>>>>>Wade/Bosh in my opinion) – then of course teams are going to get shut out – you got 3 guys and Chicago, New Jersey, Cleveland, Miami, Toronto, New York, Clippers with cap room (Cleveland and miami and toronto included cause of bird rights on players)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I find it interesting that the Bulls have been watchable and made the playoffs, while the other teams with max space have generally been garbage.
Have the Bulls been managed better or are they the beneficiaries of winning the #1 pick (Rose) when they had the 10th worst record?
I think Rose/Noah/Hinrich are a lot better than people give them credit for. Rose/Noah have “it” from the playoff games I’ve seen. Not afraid of the moment and all those other cliches.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 28, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
I think they’re beneficiaries of MULTIPLE lottery appearances
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
who cares about lebron? He reminds me of AI1, egocentric, a bal hog, and wants to be a bilionaire more than a basketball player. Im sick of him. He wont win anything unless he ties up like garnett, pierce, and allen did late in their careers and finally realized waht team meant. Nobody can do it on their own and the celtics showed the cavs this year. King my butte, win something, then claim your crown.
and to be fair to james, its not just him. D-wade, and a couple others are trying to get superstars on their rosters. Imagine if MJ did that back in the eighties and nineites? Good god. MJ had paxson, cartright, pippen. Now if you can win championships without selling out, you are the KING. Can you imagne jordan saying, geez, I cant win anything, I need kobe on my team? Na.
First of all – the reply function isn’t really hard – try and use it sometime?
Secondly – in case you haven’t noticed but EVERY rumor out there has Lebron AND someone else who is a big name joining the same team whith pieces already in place.
Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Lebrn James, Chris Bosh
You think lebron is doing it ‘by himself’ out there? Are you even paying attention – he carried a mediocre cavs roster (without him) TO THE NBA FINALS – what do you think he can do when he has actual talent around him?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
he had more talent on his roster this year than when he did reach the finals. Mr know it all.
So he took a lesser team to the NBA finals – but he hasn’t accomplished anything?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
The game has evolved more since then. To be fair, in no way shape or form are the “pieces” Lebron has equivalent to what Kobe has had or what the Celtics have put together.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
yes, it has, but players and their roles are still the same. You have the scorers, the rebounders, the put back , tough guys etc. I thinki of the bulls and jordan, and wonder about james. Pippen, Cartwright, and paxson. That was their main core. I just get ticked off when i hear lequeen. Sorry. I grew up watching MJ, and his supporting cast wasnt that talented but he was so good, he got it done. Plain and simple. Spin it anyway you want.
But not enough to win a championship. Literally games broke down to Lebron having to do it all because 1. no one else stepped up or 2. no one tried to step up. Listen, the MJ era was a different time. And you can’t say that placing a player in one time to another would have success or failure because the game is different!
You also can’t break it down to just single role per player. Guys excel at one thing, and may be weak in another area. Some have multiple strengths and multiple weaknesses. One of the main reasons the Sixers are poor with execution is because they don’t gel.
I’ve preached this a million times but you need to match strengths with weaknesses or you get exposedPlayoffs are about match ups too.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
well, i agree. It is different times. Who really knows how a prime MJ would totally be when facing lebron? What we do know is the supporting cast MJ did have and he got it done. He didnt have to shop around and look for better players every year as an excuse as to why he couldnt win. Face it man. James does. Im just saying, MJ is in a league of his won. Funny, cause personally, I dont care for him. But i remember watching him, over and over, and the dude, even with his lineup, was simply the best.
MJ didn’t have to shop around because he already had a pretty good team set in place. And it isn’t Lebron that shops around for talent, thats up to the higher ups. If he doesn’t have additions to the team, whose fault is that, Lebrons? No.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
i dont even like MJ personally, but he won in style, with greatness, which is why is his, im my opinion, the best of all time. The cast he had around him wasnt great. Actually, james and bryants cast is better. Wheres james ring?
Scottie Pippen wasn’t great huh?
You hate Lebron James – we get it – go on – hate him – hate kobe – but it’s nonsense to dismiss them as two of the greatest ball players of all time (and both better than KG)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope, I dont hate lebron james at all man, seriously. What I do hate is the image, the ego. its like he deserves all this and that and hasnt won squat man. I dont hate james. I guess im more frustrated with the “witness” image thing, condenceding, when he hasnt won anything. Unless he gets a gasol or loads up, he will be another AI!.
And he’s the first person ever to be overhyped before they won something huh? I mean, before lebron james there was no hype machine for unproven players – everyone earned their nicknames and gave approval for them?
This is not a new phenomena – and guess what – Lebron hasn’t been in the league for a full decade yet…I don’t think
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
john, a full decade. If your declared the king or your witnessing greatness, i think a full decade is enough?
You’re declared the king
You’re witnessing greatness
It’s not a mistake anymore – it’s a pattern
Again, lebron took a mediocre roster to the nba finals…and you don’t want to give him credit for it.
You really think over the hill fat shaq, slow and breaking down big z, mo williams, crazy delonte west and over rated antawn jamison is a rogues gallery of super stars?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
well, i agree shaq is over the hill, delonte west is a ganster, and jamison, who knows man. Dudes had ten years to win it, and if he is so great, should have been done. Again, looki back at the bulls rosters. I even hate saying this, but MJ was the best basketball player ive seen period. I dont like the bulls, but im tired of the james scapegoat.
10 years?
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I said about 10 years…i don’t remember his exact entry into the league – it’s like 8 or 9 this season
How many years was jordan in the league before he made the finals? Lebron? Which team was more talented (and better coached?)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I'll answer each.
Lebron just finished his 7th season I believe. Drafted in ’03.
Jordan was drafted in ‘84 I believe. His first three peat began in the ’90-’91 season. So in his 6th season he won it. Someone do the math because I’m just throwing this out.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
oh
And even though I always make counter arguments for Phil Jackson’s coaching, it was his coaching, among other things, that pushed the team to their first 3-peat after the pistons wall stopped them in the past.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
How many titles did Jordan win without Phil Jackson
one could argue that it’s all about Phil
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
‘one could argue’ – do you know what that means?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Hence my counter argument. HOWEVER, the Bulls kept running into the Brick wall that was the Pistons before Phil Jackson arrived. After he left the Lakers, the team was not able to do squat. It is a team sport, every piece, EVEN THE COACH, is important.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
And it took lebron how many seasons to make an nba finals with a questionable roster and crap coach?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah.
MJ had the better coach and better team. No doubt about it.
Lebron hasn’t come close to the supporting cast that MJ or Kobe has had.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
This year, lebron had…
Delonte West
Mo Williams
a washed up Aristotle
a washed up Antawn Jamison
Anderson Varejao
Mike Brown (No Phil Jackson)
You take Lebron away from the cavs, and they’re a 35 win team.
yea, a 35 win team, even that is excessive. Probably less, in this years sixers range. Lebron is the superstar, the witness, the ego, he is supposed to make the players better, not the other way around. He hasnt learned that yet.
laughable. He had the cast this year. Thats why all the pundits were all annoiting the cavs the champions until they met boston!
He didn't have anything close to what the Lakers had
Kobe had two 1 time all stars and 1 all star caliber player (Bynum). The Cavs had 1 Wannabe all star (Williams) A washed up Shaq and a guy that only put up numbers but nothing else (Jamison)
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jun 28, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m confused
First you say he has to learn like KG ‘learned’ (how does one learn if one gets traded cause he’s a big baby and can’t get it done on his own from Minneosta) to do it with others but for some reason, Lebron is a failure because he’s had no others, and still appeared in more playoff finals, won more playoff series than Kevin Garnet before he went to Boston.
Make up your mind – is Lebron SUPPOSED to be able to do it by himself or is he supposed to learn you need to have complimentary players…and just because you keep saying that jordan had no help in Chicago doesn’t make it true
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
i guess what im trying to say john, is that jordan, did it with his greatness. what i mean by that, he had a average supporting cast. He learned how to utilize them with his greatness. Paxson, the outside shot, pippen slasher. That team he had, was no better than what lebron had in cle this year. My opinion.
can you name Lebron’s equivalent Scottie? I can’t.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Scottie’s a terrific player, but in fairness, he had no business on that list.
by Michael Levin on Jun 28, 2010 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
That doesn’t disregard the fact that he is a TREMENDOUS player and robin to Jordan’s batman.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
scottie absolutely deserves on that list
seriously. can you name a better perimeter defender in the history of the nba? a guy who basically invented the point-forward position? a dude, who on any given night, could do ANYTHING that one of the greatest dynasties in sports needed? shut down the other teams best player, no problem. crash the boards and grab rebounds, no problem. be the primary ball handler and gain assists, no problem. score, no problem.
scottie had so much talent it hurts. he might never have had the killer instinct in him if it weren’t for michael, but who cares, on basketball ability he is absolutely a top 50 player in NBA history.
Pippen led the bulls twice to 50+ win seasons without MJ.
Those years Pippen put up 22pts, 8.5 reb, 5.5 ass and 3 stls.
Please name another player who put up numbers like that leading a 50 win team that was not “great?”
Maybe Grant Hill, but he was great, just limited by injuries.
just my opinion, thanks for your thoughts. I see lebron as anohter Allen Iverson. Loads of talent, just cant get it done because his ego is too big. Again, just my opinion. Peace.
Jordan’s supporting cast was better than Lebron’s by leaps and bounds.
Scottie Pippen>Mo Williams
Dennis Rodman>Aristotle
the list goes, on…Pippen was a superstar in his own right and Rodman, even then, was one of the best rebounders in the game and defensive presences, similar to Artest this year with the Lakers.
did mj have a post presence like shaq, even if he is over the hill? Did he having scoring guard like mo williams? Have a shooting big seven footer in ilguaskas? Etc. Defense, you right, rodman was better.
Did you watch basketball last year?
Calling Shaq q post presence is like calling me a statistical guru
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
ok man. I get what your saying. Again, the regular season means crap. Ask cleveland. None of you a ll heard all the pundits saying cle will win? They must of thought lebron has some kinda supporting cast.
Hence take every pundit with a grain of salt?
You can hate on the media for spinning it all this way but to say that Lebron has done it all to himself isn’t correct.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I did too.
Playoffs = matchups.
Both this year and last year I picked the opposing teams.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Lebron is 25. he has never played with another star.
He will win plenty of titles if he is paired with Rose and Bosh.
MJ had zero rings when he turned 29. Kobe only won rings at a young age because he played with Shaq in his prime. Otherwise he did not win another ring until he was 29.
You can’t say a player is a failure for not winning a ring by age 25.
I thought we are the witnesses? lol
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
yea, we are the witness’, some of us, but its all spun on a player who hasnt won a championship. C’mon man. Why give all perks to someone who hasnt won. Get real.
Err
So why do Chris Paul and John Wall get TV commercials when they haven’t won anything?
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jun 28, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
....What?
"Now, Maggette's one of those where when he catches, it's probably going to go up--Not to a teammate." --Jon McGlocklin, 11/14/09
by Speedingtime on Jun 28, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
So now it’s LEbrons fault how the media labels him (and no one labeled him the witness)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
this is funny. I dont even care for MJ’s personality. But i appreciate his baskeball greatness. He didnt run to another team to win. I respect that.
Because he was on the best team in the league.
Comparing to Lebron to MJ because lebron is looking for a better team is preposterous.
If Lebron had a core around him like MJ (and the coach) no way he’d be leaving
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
You say retired, I say served a one year suspension without being suspended :)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
So – about that (impossible) pipe dream of lebron signing with the sixers?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 2:34 PM PDT reply actions
Listen.
Jordan had a better cast and better coach than Lebron. There is no denying Jordan’s greatness but you are going to find few people who will agree with your assertion that Lebron has gotten the same share of players as him.
Lebron has been given pieces but hardly the equivalence that Kobe or Jordan has. He has an ego and sense of entitlement, that is a given. But he is a great player so I don’t have a huge problem feeling like he deserves to win.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
Total aside
Anyone here use verizon DSL at home or work and unable to use outgoing.verizon.net mail server?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 3:09 PM PDT reply actions
Imagine if
Willie Green, Kapono, and Dalembert had one less year on their contracts. Imagine if the Sixers had not signed Elton Brand.
The Sixer’s roster would compose of:
Andre Iguodala
Jrue Holliday
Lou Williams
Evan Turner
Thaddeus Young
Marreese Speights
Jodie Meeks
Jason Smith
They would have 30 million in cap space. I wonder who the Sixers would sign?
They would need a PF and a C.
I would probably resign Dalembert with a MLE type deal (5-7 million) or David Lee in the 10-15 million range and then sign Chris Bosh.
The Sixers roster would look like this:
PG: Jrue Holliday – Jodie Meeks
SG: Evan Turner – Lou Williams
SF: Andre Igoudala –
PF: Chris Bosh – Thaddeus Young – Jason Smith
C: Sam Dalembert – Marreese Speights
If signed D-Wade I would have trade Evan Turner for a PF/C. I would have probably traded him for Derrick Favors. If could sign Lebron I would trade away Igoudala.
I honestly don’t think there will be any sort of combination of D-Wade, Lebron, or Bosh this summer. Those guys are too big to be just the 2nd option on their team.
IMagine if the sixers had won the tim duncan lottery instead of having the second (?) pick and had been able to pair tim duncan with allen iverson
imagine if i was born with a billion dollars
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure how reliable Stephen A Smith’s sources are , or he is, but he’s saying that lebron and bosh are headed to south beach to play with dwayne wade.
http://msn.foxsports.com/video/NBA?vid=c7f5d981-3fbb-40df-8921-214dcacd3564&from=en-us_msnhp
If its true, would be a killer team. See how the ego’s can function together.
It would be a god awful team unless they change the rules and allow multiple basketballs on the court at the same time…Wade needs the ball just a bit too much
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Who takes the less than MAX deal they’ll get somewhere else to play in Miami?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
In my experience guys who come to prominence one way or another in Philadelphia tend to be unreliable.
I mean Sam Smith is god awful (and he works for an nba.com affiliated site for gods sake) and so is Peter Vescey, but Smith, “mikey miss” and eskin are down right clueless.
Miss just likes to tell Ed Stefanski how bad Iguodala is :)
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
today, hearing on espn, that all three are talking in miami. No links, no nothing, just on sportscenter. Interesting. If they did it, who thinks it would work? I dont. Too much ego and not enough basketballs.
by mothergoose on Jun 29, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
They MET in Miami – they had dinner in miami
Between cleveland, toronto, texas and miami – if three very rich folk were going to get together to have dinner and shoot the breeze – which city would you choose?
I think ESPN Putzes are reading WAY too much into the meeting being in miami – it’s just where the sluttiest skankiest least dress women are between where the three players live.
I don’t think it means anything regarding them all signing in miami and i think it’s bad basketball to put all three of them on a team.
ANd ps, even with wade bosh and lebron (say good bye to beasley) – you need other players – the heat would be capped out and have like 5 or 6 players signed to contracts – so one mle and one ‘low’ and you’re at 8 – so that’s 5 minimum salary guys.
by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
oh yea, beasley would be history for sure
by mothergoose on Jun 29, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
We need like a daily links thing but this quote from hoopshype rumors page made me laugh
Jason Quick: Source on Blazers GM search: “The only thing we know for sure is it’s Danny Ferry’s job to turn down.” Twitter
So you fired Kevin Pritchard cause Danny Ferry is your dream GM?
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 7:59 PM PDT reply actions
The Rockets, however, have spent months honing a presentation they believe can demonstrate not just why they want Bosh so badly, but why they believe he would thrive with their roster and style. “I think when we meet with target free agents they’ll see the level of effort and sophistication we put into it,” Morey said. "I’m proud of how Rockets employees and beyond put efforts into putting our best foot forward. “Mr. Alexander demands cutting edge in everything we do to help us win. That is part of the culture. Those that fit in with that thrive. I think it’s the use of technology, I would say, will convey our level of preparedness we put into the things we do.” Houston Chronicle
Sorry, but unless you can use some of that technology to magically guarantee Yao Ming makes it through an 82 game season AND the playoffs – I just don’t see it.
by jemagee on Jun 28, 2010 8:02 PM PDT reply actions
lots of these great ballers are broke. Happens in the nfl and mlb too. Saw scottie pippen got two mil back and cried. Wild.
Happenes even more so in the NBA because the union cares so much less about the welfare of its players.
It drives me crazy that AGENTS make up a sizable portion of the CBA negotiations.
by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Why is it every time somebody who we all knew was going to opt out – or in – ESPN reports it like it’s huge news.
Is Paul Pierce opting out a surprise?
by jemagee on Jun 29, 2010 8:33 PM PDT reply actions
If Bron, Bosh and Wade team up there’s no way they win less than 60 games. I don’t care who they’re teammates are. 72 would be in jeopardy.
I’d lay good money against 60 let alone 72 – takes more than 3 players – and if you sign those three you’ve got little to no money left to spend
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 10:37 AM PDT reply actions
If it happens I’d be very willing to take you up on your bet.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 30, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
for entertainment purposes only right?
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t bet for entertainment purposes – I bet for cash.
Kobe
Gasol
Odom
Artest
Bynum
They couldn’t win 60
Bosh
James
Wade
Scrubs
They’re going to threaten 72?
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
k, i’ll be in contact with you if it happens.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 30, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Getting Anthony Morrow for the MLE then a defensive/rebounding big man like Ben Wallace or Adonal Foyle for a vet min, then some high upside raw guys for super cheap like Cartier Martin, Joe Alexander, and Garrett Siler. The second unit would go through some growing pains, but playing with talent like that could step their game up to where it could be.
I don’t think there’s a shot in hell it happens, but Wade, Morrow, James, Bosh, and Wallace would win 65-70.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jun 30, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
No one will beat a healthy Bron, Bosh, Wade … just won’t happen.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 30, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
And when the lakers obtained gary payton and karl malone they were destined to win the finals too.
Check out those healthy usage rates both Lebron and Wade had last year (33.5 to 34.9 respectively). You can’t put two guys on the same team who need the ball that much and expect it to work.
It’s not fantasy basketball it’s real basketball…just putting all the most talented together doesn’t always work if the styles don’t mesh or if spolestra is unmatched. Wade is a prima donna, James is a prima donna, and Bosh isn’t far behind…(Wades also 3 years older than both James and Bosh so his ‘break down’ would come sooner than Bosh and James probably)
I mean it’s not going to happen – but deeming them unbeatable is nonsensical – they had a LOT of help winning the gold medal – that they wouldn’t have in Miami.
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
u can’t compare the malone and payton thing to bron and wade – payton and karl were on their last legs, these guys are in their prime
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
And still not as talented combined as
Bryant
Gasol
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Not to mention the ‘ball neediness’ of lebron and wade together makes no basketball sense – and spolestra would get run over by those three guys.
Lebron wouldn’t work with Kobe either, for the same reason in my opinion
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
if they sign bron and bosh along with wade, i have a feeling spolestra is out and pat riley is back in
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Beat me to it.
Also, their usuage ratings are useless. My usage rate would also be high if I played with the likes of Anthony Parker and Quinton Richardson.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 30, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions
So, you only pay attention to the advanced stats when they go your way?
For his career he has an average usage rate of 32.7 and last year was NOT his highest.
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Neither of them have played with anyone half as good as the other. Not to mention Bosh.
KG, Allen, PP usage 06-07 = ~90%
Bron, Bosh, Wade usage last year = ~90%
by Jordan Sams on Jun 30, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes you’re right – shaq was god awful when they won the finals with wades 32.5% usage rate.
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If you say so – not sure how those two stop a rebounding front court that could play 3 7 footers at the same time
But ok
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
What front court is that again?
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jun 30, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I think of odom as 7’ tall – he’s probably not – but he’s close isn’t he?
Odom
Gasol
Bynum
(since, you know, we’re assuming everyone stays healthy) – Chris Bosh ain’t stopping all of them – and for minimum contracts – neither is anyone else you sign
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s a light 6’10. If you sign Ben Wallace or Adonal Foyle, they can do a decent enough job where LeBron/Wade offense would negate the defensive deficiencies.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jun 30, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you see ben wallace this year – or adonal foyle? Aren’t they like zombies?
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
They’d have to move around a 6 foot radius. Wallace stepped his game up this year compared to years past.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
by Michael Levin on Jun 30, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
can’t teams only use the mle if they start the offseason over the cap? i might be making that up
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Whether they can or can’t – according to rumors now – bosh to miami would be a S&T for the only two players under contract for next year.
So you pay Bosh, Lebron, Wade – and then you gotta find 5-6 guys (minimum) who could play on a title contending team…for one MLE the ‘minimum’ exception (if they have it) and minimum contracts
and I’m sorry – but all this slobbering over 3 players – the lakers still have more over all talent when you take into account gasol, bryant (though his permanently damaged finger might be an issue) bynum, artest and odom.
Not to mention a MUCH better coach
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Can one of you guys make a Free Agency FanPost … can’t do it from work.
by Jordan Sams on Jun 30, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s too depressing to contemplate – since the sixers won’t be doing anything
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
i gotcha
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on Jun 30, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Can we bet 3500 dollars and can i get that in advance? New engines for cars aren’t cheap
by jemagee on Jun 30, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions

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