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Dalembert for Nocioni-Hawes: Perspective from a Sactown Royalty

Hello all, 

I'm Aykis16, one of the Associate Editors over at the SBN Kings Blog Sactown Royalty.  Today the Kings traded Spencer Hawes and Andres Nocioni to the Philadelphia 76ers for Samuel Dalembert.  Here's my take on this trade for you guys.

Front paged by TAFKAMB. Good post, however depressing it may be that we're now more hamstrung by the cap then we were before. Either me or Jordan will put something up tonight for some rational thoughts rather than gut reaction. I'm still confused.

If you head over to Sactown Royalty, please be respectful and not advocating Louis Williams for MVP. Thank you.

Star-divide

Andres Nocioni is by far the weak link of this trade.  He is on contract for 2 more years, with a team option for a 3rd year.  He is known for his tough defense, which in reality, isn't that great.  Nocioni is a fierce competitor though and he hates losing.  Unfortunately, thats not a good thing for Philadelphia, as (no offense), they're not exactly going to the playoffs on a regular basis as of late.

Nocioni had a couple times where he mentioned that he wanted out of Sacramento because of the losing and the fact that he wasn't part of their future.  The most recent case was about a week ago.  Is Nocioni a part of Philadelphia's future?  Maybe, but I don't buy it.  He's a decent 3 point shooter (38.6% last year and 37.5% on his career) but he also tends to make silly decisions with the ball, and often try to force offense when it isn't there (as witnessed by his atrocious 39.9% FG% last year).

He's also not a good ball handler, turning it over more than he creates for others, and tends to foul quite a bit on the defensive end.  He likes to get physical with his defender, but he's not very quick.  He's on the downside of his career and likely won't enjoy moving from one rebuilding project to another.  

The real part of this deal for Philadelphia is the acquisition of young Center (22 years old this season) Spencer Hawes.  Standing 7'1 and probably one of the better passing big men in the league already, Spencer has intrigued and frustrated Kings fans who see so much potential in him for the last 3 years.  The biggest problem with Spencer have revolved around work ethic and attitude.  This year especially, he had various disputes with the Kings organization and Paul Westphal about his inconsistent playing time and his decision not to attend the Vegas Summer League.

Spencer is not your typical center.  He's definitely in the mold of Brad Miller and Vlade Divac (and soon to be NBA player Greg Monroe), in that he likes to play in the high post and pass the ball, as well as shoot jumpers.  He actually has a pretty advanced post-game down low, but his lack of strength and explosiveness causes him to get his shot blocked quite a bit.  Additional strength is a must for Spencer to end up succeeding.

Spencer definitely has range on his shot, although his percentages aren't that great, but he can hit the mid-range jumper at a dependable rate, and his 3 is good enough to keep defenses honest.

By far the biggest reasons Kings fans have soured on Spencer are the fact that he's not a defensive presence in the middle (something the Kings have lacked since Bill Russell was the coach) and he's not a particularly good defensive rebounder, only grabbing 17.7% of Defensive rebounding opportunities.  The only starting NBA centers that had worse Defensive Rebounding percentages last year were Nenad Krstic (16.0%), Roy Hibbert (15.5%), Darko Milicic (16.9%), Channing Frye (17.6%), and Andrea Bargnani (15.9%).  The bad thing with rebounding is its not something that improves too much over time.  Not many players have made the jump from poor rebounders to good rebounders.  And because of the way Spencer plays, its not likely he'll ever make that big of a leap in that department.

Lastly, Spencer is in the final year of his rookie contract, going into the season at the age of 22.  He hasn't really had a stellar season yet, although he's shown flashes of greatness, but that just means that Philadelphia would kill their future cap space even more if they opt to re-sign him at the end of the year, which could be costly if Spencer never pans out.

Both of these players are polarizing figures who will both excite and frustrate you at times.  It remains to be seen if the destination was worth the ride.  

For now I think the Kings won this trade, as it gets rid of their worst contract and provides them with the type of defensive and rebounding presence that they were sorely lacking last year, but depending on how Spencer Hawes grows as a player.

Some Spencer Highlights from this year:

Some Nocioni Highlights:

 

P.S. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the comments.

Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.

Comment 36 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Great, another big with questionable work ethic and attitude. Can you elaborate on this please? And thanks for the post, good to have views from someone who’s seen these guys play for awhile.

by prideoux on Jun 17, 2010 1:05 PM PDT reply actions  

Sure

In his first year, Spencer wouldn’t participated in then Coach Reggie Theus conditioning drills because he said his knee was bothering him. Started off on the wrong foot. Then last summer, he opted out of the “optional” Vegas Summer League because he figured he didn’t need to go if it wasn’t mandatory. This didn’t sit well with new Coach Paul Westphal and their relationship didn’t get off to a very good start.

Westphal wanted a more physical presence in the middle, and for the start of the season, started Sean May over Spencer at Center in order to try to light a fire under Spencer’s ass. Eventually Spencer won the starting spot back after a good game against Memphis, but his inconsistent defense and rebounding (two things Westphal really stressed), led to inconsistent playing time. Eventually he complained about his role on the team in the Sacramento Bee, which Westphal punished with a DNP-CD. This seemed to do the trick as the next few games he came out really strong and played well. This was until he got injured and had to be put on lock down for the last couple weeks of the season.

So Spencer has a lot of trouble motivating himself, but I think a strong coach could eventually bring out the greatness in him. The unfortunate thing about Philadelphia is that I don’t think Doug Collins has ever been a “strong” coach, and the Philadelphia fans are notoriously harsh. I’m hoping for the best for Spencer, I really am, but I don’t know if Philadelphia is the right spot for him to develop. He and Iggy/Turner could develop into an insane Pick and roll/slash tandem though.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 17, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

hey, while the sixers are at it now, why not add another big with a questionalbe work ethci and attitude. Select cousins. Jeez.

by mothergoose on Jun 17, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe we can trade him with speights

by killacaravagio on Jun 17, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

In Summary

The sixers were deseperate to get under the luxury tax, a smart GM took advantage and now has a solid expiring chip to possibly use at the deadline cause the sixers couldn’t show patience.

It shouldn’t surprise me, the phillies did the same thing with cliff lee

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:00 PM PDT reply actions  

How are you relating this to Cliff Lee?

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by JasonB on Jun 18, 2010 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

just a thought, maybe stupid. But maybe they see something in Hawes, got a shooter in Nocioini and will take turner? No clue.

by mothergoose on Jun 17, 2010 2:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Do they see defense in Hawes? I’m not saying he’s jason smith bad, but i’m saying that hawes is closer to jason smith than he is sam dalembert

Do the sixers need another big man with offensive but little defensive skill or motivation or a big man with defensive skill but weaker offense?

That’s the problem – i don’t even care that they traded sam – but now they have no big men who are even good defensively (and sam is better than good)

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're underestimating Hawes' upside

Besides, he’s gonna have some time to develop….the 76ers ain’t competing for anything of note (other than lottery position) for a while yet. Spencer could turn out pretty damn impressive with some decent coaching (Silas sucks!)

by Julie H on Jun 17, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

The problem is Julie

That Philadelphia is in a bit of salary cap hell with Brand, Iggy, and Lou Williams locked up to long-term contracts (past the CBA). So far Spencer has had 4 coaches … well if you want to call Kenny Natt and Reggie Theus coaches… in 4 years. Not great for learning as you might understand.

If Spencer comes out and has another so-so year, the Sixers are going to be hard pressed to find a value for him. You don’t just want to let him go, but if you overpay him and lock him up long term, and then he never pans out (or one of his knees finally gives in, he’s had multiple knee surgeries pre-NBA), that’s just another bad contract for the Sixers, which delays rebuilding even more.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 17, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Just moving bodies

Only Dalembert could be playing in tonite’s Game 7 between Bos and LA and that would only be because he can play defense. And not that great of defense.
When looking at trades always think if the guys moving could make any kind of difference in a playoff game. None of these 3 can make any real difference in a playoff game and how in the heck did Dalembert ever get a contract for 13 Million per year?
Hawes is more concerned about being funny in radio interviews than actually contributing to a winning team.

by wan8iv on Jun 17, 2010 2:09 PM PDT reply actions  


When looking at trades always think if the guys moving could make any kind of difference in a playoff game.

That’s a rather short sighted way of looking at it, and ignores numerous factors that affect building an nba roster

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

About as short sighted as it gets. Did you think Nate Robinson could make a difference in a playoff game? It still doesn’t make him a good player.

by Michael Levin on Jun 17, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

This trade sucks more than the aberu trade did

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:10 PM PDT reply actions  

In fairness the Abreu trade opened a spot for Jayson Werth. Maybe Speights will have a similar elevation. God the more I think about it the less I like the trade. Its not that this trade is a killer just that they should have been able to get something that could have been a long term piece.

by Dpez71 on Jun 17, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Werth wasn’t on the team when Abreu was around. And he was playing behind Geoff Jenkins first. To a more obnoxious extent, it’s like saying trading Curt Schilling paved the way for us to get Halladay.

Anyway this is off-topic and I’m probably just cranky and perennially defending Bobby Abreu.

by Michael Levin on Jun 17, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m cranky – and pissed – hell i miss billy king

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

one of the Associate Editors over at the SBN Kings Blog Sactown Royalty

i like how they get fancy titles and we get harry potter names – no seriously i actually do like it – lets go play quidditch – troll bogies

"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George

LibertyBallers : @tsteidel

by Tanner Steidel on Jun 17, 2010 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I can’t believe we’ve swindled them into thinking we’re writers. The amount of balls I’ve cupped….whew….

by Michael Levin on Jun 17, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Have you seen who CSN lets be on television? They don’t exactly have high standards, or low standards, or any standards

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Over here we have MANdards because we’re MEN. and DARDS.

by Michael Levin on Jun 17, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had to tell a guy which one was Favors and which one was Cousins today. If they can be writers, why the hell not ?

by Derek Bodner on Jun 18, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ha

That’s pretty funny.

Grandmaster of the "Never let AnotherStupidSN forget what a Sham-Wow is" Order and Originator of the "Brock Ness Monster".

by Aykis16 on Jun 17, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Once we get as many visitors as you guys, we may be asked to get a bit more serious. But I doubt we’d listen. Tanner’s half-deaf, Jordan always wears headphones, John’s old, and I cut my ears off when I was 16 on a dare.

Derek’s pretty serious though, so there’s that.

by Michael Levin on Jun 17, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

His g-strings chafe

The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010

by jemagee on Jun 17, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t worry. Most of us members are idiots like 90% of the time anyways. Oh can I be a Beater btw?

"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain

by soman319 on Jun 17, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Will we be seeing an open letter to Mr.Dalembert in the days to come, similar to the Andre one?

by prideoux on Jun 17, 2010 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

The Open letter was actually mine to francisco elson. Jordan wrote this to Andre Iguodala earlier this year.

by Michael Levin on Jun 17, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whoops my mistake, in any case I hope someone writes it :)

by prideoux on Jun 17, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Honestly, this trades has pluses and minuses for both teams.

Positives:

Kings:
They get a center who can actually do what a center is supposed to do, rebound and protect the rim
They get rid of Nocioni’s contract, which is a year longer than Sam’s
They get a huge expiring contract for the summer of 2011
They rid themselves of a center who has clearly wore out his stay with the team
They accommodate Nocioni’s trade request

76ers:
They save money this year by dealing Sam’s big contract
They accommodate Sam’s trade request
They add two shooters to the team
They take a chance on a 22 year old center who was once thought to have potential, and if he doesn’t work out they can just let him go for the summer of 2011 as a free agent

Negatives:

Kings:
They take on a big contract and add payroll to the upcoming season
They lose offense from the center spot
They get a guy with little to no basketball IQ, no hands, and at least one goal tend per game
They basically admit defeat on a guy that they took 10th overall just 3 years ago

76ers:
They take on a contract that goes one year further than Sam’s(2 years with a team option, but that is sure to not be picked up)
They lose what little interior defense they had to begin with
They get worse at rebounding

All in all, I like it for both sides moderately, but the fallout of this trade won’t fully been known until a week from now. Hopefully, we still take Turner, but this trade may be setting it up for a Favors selection.

by Matt3511 on Jun 17, 2010 11:00 PM PDT reply actions  

i still dont see a big man with this pick. we are crowded at the 4 /5 now unless we are trading some of them.

by killacaravagio on Jun 20, 2010 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

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