Sixers Draft '10: The Case for Derrick Favors
Yesterday I posted five reasons why the Sixers should pick Evan Turner number two overall. Today I'll post a counter, making the case for Derrick Favors. By the way, I'm geeked just to be having this debate.
Follow the jump ...
More Potential
Evan Turner is clearly a better player than Derrick Favors at this stage in their careers, but who will be the better pro when all is said and done? I suppose the real question is, can the Sixers afford to gamble on an 18 year-old who may or may not live up to his superstar potential?
Turner has go-to scorer potential and projects to be an above average defender, but how much better can he get? He spent three years playing big minutes in the Big 10, and his game is as polished as any prospect. For better or worse, Turner probably is who he is at this point, with the potential for minimal-to-average improvement. Favors on the other hand played one year at Georgia Tech, and still has a lot of room to improve - especially offensively. Favors is also a full three years younger than Turner.
Turner's ceiling is a perennial all-star and go-to scorer, but Favors ceiling is Dwight Howard with Amare's offense. In my opinion, the likelihood of each reaching their ceiling is: Turner - 60%, Favors - 10%. Turner is clearly the safer choice, but there's a chance - if the Sixers take Turner over Favors - we could be looking back on this draft five years from now saying "I love Evan Turner and all, but we passed on that?!"
Note: If the NBA still allowed players to go straight from high school to the pros, Favors vs. Griffin would've been debated last year like Howard vs. Okafor was a few years back. Favors was the number one prospect coming out of high school.
Better Fit
As everyone has already pointed out, Turner might be an awkward fit for the Sixers. Favors is not only the better fit short-term, but also long-term.
Favors has the potential to be dominant defender who can anchor a championship defense - think Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett. He also has the potential to command a double-team every time he touches the ball, and be a go-to scorer in the half-court offense. Both fill significant needs for the Sixers - especially once Dalembert is gone - and neither interfere with Jrue or Andre.
As a matter of fact, Jrue and Favors would probably love playing with each other. One of Jrue's biggest strengths on offense is his pick and roll play. Unfortunately, he had to pass to guys like Dalembert, Brand, Speights, and Smith his rookie season - none of which possess both good hands and/or the ability to finish strong. Favors possesses both - they're his strongest offensive attributes at this stage in his development. Not only would Jrue/Favors be a sick combo on defense for years to come, they could turn into a to be a force to be reckoned with on offense - and Favors is only 18 years old.
Favors athleticism and ability to get out in transition also fit right in.
Conclusion
The major problems in drafting Favors over Turner are, he is much less marketable - the fans would probably riot, and there's chance he never lives up to his potential. I should also mention that Favors worst case scenario is somewhere in the Al Horford range. Stefanski would never survive passing on a perennial all-star who's dropping 20 points per game for the next Al Horford. I still say Turner is the pick, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super-intrigued by the prospect of two 19-year old studs running the team.
Assuming the Sixers keep the pick - which they better - the final decision will come down to interviews, workouts and physicals. If there is even the slightest problem with Turner's back I'd quickly jump on the Favors bandwagon.
Note: According to Draft Express, Turner had one of the best interviews at the draft combine, and Favors was underwhelming.
Note #2: Turner had disappointing pre-draft measurements, while Favors' were impressive.
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2 points of disagreement:
1) Speights is a very good PnR partner, because he can pick & pop, or roll and finish with power or finesse.
2) Turner is not that awkward of a fit. He is a fundamentally sound High IQ wing that will be playing next to two other high IQ guys on the outside who can finish plays and set him up for easy shots as well. He has a midrange game and is expanding his range outward as we speak.
IMO, if you pick Turner and he reaches his ceiling, your big man can be a Kendrick Perkins/Varejao type as a defensive anchor(I like Aldrich or Seraphin). Offense from that spot becomes a luxury; all that is needed is for the defensive big to finish plays inside. Turner gives you the closer you will need to succeed(Look at Orlando now, for instance).
I'm sorry what?
Speights cannot finish strong at the hoop, he can hardly jump with all those twinkies in his belly. I saw Speights try to dunk the ball from too far out multiple times last year, completely overestimating his athleticism, looking like a fool. And Andre Iguodala is not a high IQ basketball player, otherwise he’d get to the rim in game winning situations instead of shooting jumpshots.
Speights is an effective strong finisher around the basket(see the beginning of the year – pre-injury).
Iguodala does have a fairly high BBall IQ. It manifests most often in his playmaking and defense, but it shows in his offense.
by MojoPharoah on May 22, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Regarding “better fit” – I see Turner as the better fit for next year because he would start at the position the Sixers are weakest at, and he would have more impact right away, whereas Favors might split time with Brand and Speights in the absence of trades. Long term, the Sixers need more superstars to compete at the top level, so Favors is only a better fit in the sense of having more long term superstar potential.
The comparison between Favors and Dwight Howard is interesting. When I look at films of the players at similar age, Favors seems more athletic, but Howard was a little taller and a lot stronger in his upper body. Favors has a notable ability to palm the ball and control it with one hand.
Agreed that Turner was one of the best interviewers there (although a notch below Wesley Johnson in that regard), but i’m not sure Favors was one of the worst. He just didn’t really say much, if anything. Very concise, seemed uncomfortable with the process, and very laid back. Led to a lot of one word answers.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
I kind of liked Favors’ interview. He’s not the most charismatic guy, but he seems like he’s willing to put the work in and just play his game. Just because a guy isn’t McNabb with the media doesn’t mean he’s got a low bball IQ
by Michael Levin on May 22, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Only way I take Favors is like you mentioned is if Turner’s back is jacked up.
This is a little off topic but on nbadraft.net it says that we should be getting a 2nd rounder from Utah for the Kyrylo Fesenko trade do you guys know if that is true?
I’ve been waiting for that pick forever. It was noted as “future considerations” but I’ve heard nothing about when we can cash in on it.
by Michael Levin on May 22, 2010 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions
One criticism of Favors I’ve heard in the past is that he’s too laid back. Interviewing him the past few days, I can see that. Worse, after talking to a few nba people, there are some that share the concern. Obviously, there are worse things to be accused of, but there does exist a worry that he won’t be assertive enough on the court to live up to his potential offensively.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
Favors did seem to work hard at both ends of the court at Georgia Tech, but definitely didn’t act like he was “the man” as a Freshman. Maybe it was a bit analogous to Jrue at UCLA in the sense that Collison and Gawal both considered going pro the year earlier and then opted to stay as upperclassmen.
Favors shows good court awareness with stuff like help defense. The interview stuff I see as a negative only as far as the marketing dept. is concerned, but not as far as player projections. The combine along with some other Favors interviews are on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXRzGRAEKyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75U1dnfZD7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2m_jMg6eps&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTy3Lp3emI&feature=related
It’s true that we don’t know how his offense will develop at the NBA level. He could turn to be only a Buck Williams – sometimes NBA all star who didn’t talk much either.
The combine along with some other Favors interviews are on YouTube:
Heh. You do realize that I was at the combine (and still am in Chicago, actually), right?
The interview stuff I see as a negative only as far as the marketing dept. is concerned, but not as far as player projections.
Except I’ve talked to more than one nba rep who said they notice it on the court and in the locker room, too. If it were just in interviews, I’d agree it’s not a concern. i’m not sure that’s the case.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
Yep, you are doing a great job at the combine (and I mentioned that in your combine thread). I posted the links for other people’s benefit, because both you and jsams were discussing the interviews.
My comments about Favors play at Georgia Tech were meant to partially address the concern about Favor’s assertiveness there. I see the situation as analogous to Jrue at UCLA. Also my comparison to Buck Williams as the downside was on this same topic – another similar player with a similar demeanor and possibly similar cultural background, who never developed into a goto offensive star but was still an NBA all star because of his other strong attributes, especially rebounding. I see this concern as a valid consideration, but just a consideration I’m trying to put into context.
Gotcha. Seemed directly at me, just wanted to clear it up.
Agreed that circumstances may have played a part in his assertiveness at Tech, but I’m also not willing to say it’s not a concern at all, either. Overall, he’s still #3 on my big board.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on May 22, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I just don’t understand why people think Favors is the better talent than Cousins. Sometimes, people fall too much in love with hang time, and forget to look at how quickly a big man gets off the floor. Cousins is quicker making cuts to the hoop. He’s quicker getting off the floor. He’s quicker making moves to the hoop. He far stronger in the post. He’s far more skilled. He’s better on the break.
People say Favors has an upside ceiling similar to Amare, but Amare at that age had Favors’ type of hangtime, and still to this day despite multiple surgeries is more explosively quick than Favors.
While Favors is a nice prospect and should be a good defender, don’t forget that quickness is important for bigs on the defensive end too. I’m not sure his defensive promise is as high as people think.
Cousins is the better overall basketball talent. For him to drop past Favors, it has to do with what is between the ears…..or the Nets are afraid that Cousins will get in the way of their young big center in the post. Favors might be the better complement for that team….but you don’t draft for need at number 3…..awefully stupid.
If Cousins is on the board and you think there is a chance he will have the work ethic, you have to trade with Minnesota for him plus the 16th and 21st picks. Those three picks just offer more upside for this franchise than drafting Turner alone. There’s got to be something I’m not seeing here.
Basically, I don’t agree with your descriptions of Cousins. He is definitely not quicker – I don’t think he is quick enough to play defensive PF at the NBA level, whereas I think PF will be Favors’ main position. And I would definitely not describe Cousins as explosive in the context of NBA level athletes. What I do find intriguing about Cousins is that he seems to have a great natural instinct for where the ball is going next. I call that anticipation rather than quickness.
Let’s recall that Tractor Traylor was very successful in the NCAA and largely an NBA bust. The point of the comparison is not to say that Cousins is like Traylor overall, but rather that a lot of Traylor’s success at the NCAA level came from just being that much bigger and stronger than other people he was matched against that he could basically push them out of the way or intimidate them, and the same could be said of much of Cousins’ NBA and HS success. It’s a matter of judgment to look at Cousins’ performances and decide which scenarios translate to him playing C at the NBA level.
Another example is John “Hot Plate” Williams, who actually had a higher level of skill and versatility than Cousins, but didn’t last as an NBA PF in part because of discipline and conditioning problems.
This is a good response. I’m a big Cousins supporter, but I’m pretty sure dude was just making things up about him to prove a rather non-existent point.
by Michael Levin on May 22, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure that’s a fair response.
There are different types of quickness. And I don’t consider Cousins among the NBA’s elite as an explosive finisher. I also think his lack of lateral quickness defensively will at times be a problem for him. But I do believe he has the types of quickness a true basketball player needs offensively. If he tends to find himself in position to do something with the ball, then that isn’t just smarts….that takes a type of quickness to get to the spot too.
In a tight space(like in the post for example), Favors is more of a long strider than Cousins.
Cousins’ doesn’t finish over people in traffic the way Favors can for the occasional highlight play. But he tends to get into position and get off the floor quicker than Favors. Combine that with his strength in the post, and he should be a better finisher and rebounder, and should get more garbage buckets in the half court offense than Favors.
Add that to his post game with his back to the basket, and he looks a far superior offensive player to Favors….and a likely better rebounder.
There are some real risks with Cousins
But Traylor and Hot Plate did not have a 9’5" Standing Reach and prototypical Center size. This is a huge difference. In college their horizontal size created matchup opportunities but in the Pro’s, it didn’t trasnlate. Cousins would immediately have the same length as Lopez, Thabeet, and Shaq. He is not undersized. That being said, Favors measured out quite long as well. This has to be the longest draft class in memory, everybodies wingspan was huge. Are they testing for HGH at the combine?
eerily….I had the same thought about performance enhancing substances….but I never thought that had anything to do with things like arm length….is that possible?
The wingspans and arm length of these guys this year just seems nuts. Larry Sanders….Whiteside…and several others. I was even surprised by Wesley Johnson’s wingspan….sheesh.
And I agree about Taylor and John Williams. Traylor was baskically a football player in sneakers who I never rated as high as Cousins. And John Williams is not as physical as cousins.
Also neither of them have his talent in the full court either. I’m not referring to just the ability to run in a straight line and dunk. Cousins sometimes looks like an NBA small forward on the break with the ball in his hands.
I brought up Traylor and Hot Plate for specific reasons that I gave above.
Traylor had a good inside NCAA game because he was heavier and stronger – not taller – than his competition. And Traylor he was basically useless at the pro level. Cousins was heavier, stronger, and taller than his NCAA competition. I’m not predicting Cousins will be an NBA bust, but I am predicting that he will not be the same kind of dominant inside player at the NBA level.
Hot Plate Williams really was incredibly skilled and basketball smart, and very good in the open floor, but that was all beside the point when he was huffing and puffing and sweating to make it up and down the floor in any kind of extended minutes. I’m not predicting Cousins will eat himself out of the league, but it’s just a fact that his future career success in on the line right now and he is noticeably not in top physical condition so that’s a red flag that just becomes a bigger and bigger issue as a player ages. Similar stuff could have been said about Oliver Miller (though he was always too fat to do anything in the open floor).
It sounds like Favors has the perfect skill set for the Sixers, but is perceived to be a an inferior choice to Turner and Wall for reasons that have less to do with playing basketball and more to do with being a marketable star.
If the Sixers can trade their pick and get rid of Brand, and still get a high enough pick in return to get Favors, that would be an ideal option, unless there is another man of the same size in the draft.
Is Favors the apparent #3 picK? Who is the best big man available and where do you expect him to go?
Yes, Favors will be the number three pick unless someone reaches on Cousins or Wes Johnson, which is unlikely.
by Jordan Sams on May 23, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade Iggy
I agree with some of the comments that playing Turner next to Andre Iggy would be difficult. We should trade A.I. for the highest draft choice or best young prospect we can get.
Getting rid of Brand would be nice but I’d rather get real value for Iggy, not just cap space.
by NBAdraftRoom.com on May 23, 2010 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
i rather see what collins can do with them defensively before we make any moves
by killacaravagio on May 23, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Not in my mind.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on May 23, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think there’s a case for him at number 2, so probably not
by Michael Levin on May 24, 2010 5:09 AM PDT up reply actions
There is no case for Favors at 2.
He may have more potential but that doesn’t mean anything if he can’t reach it. Right now he is much worse off than Turner.
Same thing with saying he’s a better fit. Sure there’s some reasoning to it, but it could fail just the same as Turner possibly could.

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