Sixers Trade Thread
by Jordan Sams on Jun 4, 2010 7:18 AM PDT
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PrintPost all trade proposals, suggestions, rumors, etc. here.
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
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Can we edit this to say that trades in their own fan posts will be deleted?
(This is somethhing that was instituted on Realgm a long time ago – all fantasy trades get stuck in the same thread and original threads locked)
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 9:01 AM PDT reply actions
I’m going to kick of the silliness
Chris Paul and hornets first round pick for #2 and Jrue Holiday (salary cap considerations aside)
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 9:01 AM PDT reply actions
I really want to keep this pick.
I mean if NJ really really wants Turner then give us the #3 (pick Favors) and a nice player to go with it.
Whoever offers the most and is willing to take Brand’s contract. A lower pick that allows us to still be able to draft the best big man, plus a player to offset the loss of Brand would be ideal.
The whole point of building a team is to win a championship, and the best teams have huge front lines and scorers who can shoot from inside or midrange or outside. I think the Sixers are ok with their small forwards and guards. They could be better, but even if they were, it wouldn’t be enough to overcome the rebounding disadvantage they’d face with our current front line in terms or rebounding and inside scoring.
If Dalembert is still the starting Center next season, the Sixers need someone who can score to pair with him. If Speights is that player, we didn’t see it last season. It would have to be someone strong enough to guard Perkins or Big Baby. I realize this is a hard thing to do, but with the 2nd pick as leverage this is our best chance.
Crazy Trade Proposal #1
The Wolves trade Love, Jefferson, Ellington, Gomes, and #24 for Brand, Deng, Hinrich, James Johnson, and #2.
The Sixers trade Brand & #2 for Love, Ellington, #17 & #24
The Bulls trade Deng, Hinrich, Johnson, and #17 for Jefferson and Gomes.
It makes sense for Philly because it gets them out of Brand’s albatross contract. It wouldn’t force them to trade Iguodala for 60 cents on the dollar. It gives them a young rebuilding base of Holiday, Iggy, Love, #17 & #24 and allows them to be serious players in 2011 (when Dalembert comes off the books) where they could make a push for Carmelo. Ellington fits a need as a cheap young shooter at SG to compliment Iguodala. Replacing Brand with Love on rookie scale creating a big free agent year in 2011 is a ridiculous switch based on both talent and salary. This is the type of move that could transform the franchise. The remaining two draft picks is an extreme amount of value and two chances at getting a defensive big. They get the best player in this convoluted 3 way team transformation, shed the most money, and still get a mid and late first round draft pick pick. Jackpot. No player taken at #2 alone has the potential to transform their franchise like this deal would. I show their salary commitments not including next years draft pick being at $36.8 Million for 9 players after this deal. Trade Young for a future asset before free agency and you’re at $32.8 Million in commitments to 8 players. Could they attract Carmelo or another FA?
For the Bulls, this gives them a great chance to actually pull off the two superstar free agent model as they would have around $24 Million committed after cutting Gomes (Non Guaranteed Contract) to 4 valuable players in Jefferson, Rose, Noah and Gibson. Watch out NBA.
It makes sense for the Wolves because they would have a rock solid foundation of Rubio, Turner, Cousins, plus Flynn, Brewer, Johnson, Pekovic, Darko, and the #16 pick. They would kill their cap space for the next 3 seasons, but with Deng, Brand, and Hinrich they have a lineup able to sniff the playoffs and provide some winning habits/leadership for their young players.
WOw
A. That trade just sucks for the sixers
B. No way that ever happens in the NBA WAY too many parts and players
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Because we’d be trading a potential all-star (Turner) for role players and a salary dump.
Kevin Love is good, yes, but I’d rather have Turner and still be over the cap than Love and 3 players who basically have the same talent level that we already have.
The best thing the Sixers could do with Brand (and to a lesser extent Iguodala) is to ride out their contracts, keep stockpiling young talent, and trade Brand (and/or Iguodala) when their contracts are shorter and more valuable in a trade. The Sixers won’t be winning a title within the next few years. What would be the point in dumping salary?
Every team in the final 4 of the playoffs has a Two-Way big picked in the Top 5 of the draft except Phoenix. They got Amare when high schoolers would slip in the draft due to being an unknown. Good luck with that strategy. I hope you enjoy mediocrity.
So I’m presuming you think kevin love is going to be as good as the current ‘two way bigs’ picked in the top 5 of the draft – which makes you a crack addict
Face it – the timberwolves made a bad trade when they gave up mayo
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Face it – the timberwolves made a bad trade when they gave up mayo
If this is how you feel, I realize why you don’t like this trade.
I’m not a fan of over rated doughy white boys who wouldn’t be so hyped if they weren’t white
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He led the NBA in offensive rebounds his rookie season and is a Top 5 rebounder in the league. Synergy sports says he a seriously underrated possession defender similar to a guy like Chucky Hayes. He can start the break with his outlet passing and stretch the defense with his outside shot. He measures out well in PER at around 20 his sophomore season and in Wins Produced he’s a top 10 player in the NBA. My icon admittedly shows I’m a Kevin Love fan and I am. He does poorly on the eye test though because of that “doughy white boy” image he has, so I understand the type of fan that does not like him. It’s all good…People like different things in basketball players.
I don’t think Kevin Love is a role player, but then again, as my personal icon indicates I am a Love fan. Statistics love him even if fans don’t value him as highly. Also, this isn’t about being over or under the cap, this is about redoing the terrible Elton Brand Choice and having money next year in free agency to get a true #1 option.
If you think the chances that Carmelo Anthony or another #1 option signs with that roster are greater than the chances that Evan Turner ever becomes a #1 option, you’d have admit that this is an attractive deal. If you don’t think you have a chance in Free Agency to get this player, I could see why you could be hesitant, but disagree that it “sucks for the sixers.”
Luxury tax speculations
I think it is really hard to speculate what the Sixers might or might not do to avoid luxury tax. Unlike a standard team with a single rich guy owner who maybe overextended himself slightly to follow his dream of owning a franchise, the Sixers are owned by the gigantic Comcast corporation. The entire Spectacor division, which includes the Sixers, Flyers, and the arena they play in is something like 3% of Comcast’s business. It’s really hard as an outside to figure out what strategic or economic role the Sixers play in that picture, so its hard to predict what the team might do for purely financial reasons.
I mention all of the above because the trade proposal seemed premised on the idea that the Sixers would otherwise dump some salary to avoid the luxury tax and that premise might well be false to start with. So it’s better just to state it explicitly.
Luxury Tax
I don’t think the benefit is that the Sixers are avoiding the Luxury Tax, that could be accomplished quite easily by just drafting Turner and moving a smaller piece as the Sixers would be pretty close to the projected Tax line. This deal would allow the Sixers to be a player in Free Agency as soon as next summer, with the money to offer a max contract. I would think, barring an unlikely career renaissance, that this is the best chance the Sixers have to move Brand. If they don’t move Brand, they are capped out for the next 3 years with no possible help beyond draft picks to help. With Turner they also likely won’t sniff be in position to draft in the Top 10.
If you think you could be an attractive desitionation for Melo
This roster
Holliday/Williams
Iggy/Ellington
?
Love
?
With #17 and #23 to draft a wing and a defensive big man or two Big Men, that would be an attractive situation for Carmelo I would think. He and Iggy would be a great fit together on the wing, brings Carmelo closer to home on the East Coast, and Love is great fit for a team that what’s to run as he is a Top 5 NBA Rebounder, a great outlet passer, and can further help stretch the D with an outside shot.
That deal seems overly complicated and leaves the Sixers with much lower draft picks than is desirable. I think they should be able to do better than that, find someone to absorb Brands contract and the #2 pick in exchange for a pick around 4 or 5. I’m not even that concerned about getting a player to replace Brand- as long as the draft pick is high enough so we can get a good big man, and out from under his salary.
Good Luck with that Pipe Dream
Essentially your asking a team to pay over $50 MIllion dollars (amount remaining on Brand’s useless contract) to move up two or three spots in the draft.
There is a real downside to taking Turner at #2 and having no assets to improve your frontcourt for 3 years beyond mid round draft picks. That’s why guards have never been picked back to back to open a draft in the last 30 years. I like Turner, but shooting guard was not only the Sixers best position last year it was also Iguodala’s best position. Ignore team building history at your peril, as the best point guard in the NBA Chris Paul still can’t win without a frontcourt, and neither could Kobe Bryant before Gasol came.
If you don’t want to trade #2, I would love the Wolves to make a play for Iguodala, my thoughts on that subject and why I think Philly is doing us a favor by picking Turner are here.
Couple of fallacies...
(1) Iggy is a SF, not a SG: Just because his stats are good at SG doesn’t mean that he is a good SG. Sixers fans for years have known that he is being played out of his natural position. He isn’t a 2, he’s a 3 and he isn’t a “#1”, he’s a very good “#2.”
(2) Our best “win %s” came with Iggy at SF: We had win %s of 80, 85 and 85 (highest on your stat list) when he played SF.
(3) Just because two guards haven’t been drafted back to back doesn’t mean they can’t: They obviously were prior to 1980.
(4) #17 & #23 do no provide the talent that can plug holes/provide players with the ability to help the Sixers in the long run.
(5) This is worse than the Hornets’ trade proposal submitted here: http://www.libertyballers.com/2010/5/19/1480009/hornets-trade-proposal
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on May 20, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
As for point 2
go look at the 2008/2009 season and find the sixers best 5 some – and then open your mouth again
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I just was attacking his stats list. It doesn’t make it an automatic result that Iggy is our best option/best at SG just because his stats were good. It’s indicative of the situation he was in, aka our leading scorer/guy who continuously got the ball in his hands.
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on May 20, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
And yet – you’re still wrong about whether IGUODALA is a SG or not…but that’s ok, I get it, people follow the memes and don’t care about the facts.
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re really trying to make him out to be a SG? That’s laughable. If he was such a good SG we wouldn’t be discussing drafting a SG, instead of discussing drafting someone like Wes Johnson, Derrick Favors or Demarcus Cousins.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on May 21, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
No, he’s right. Iguodala often plays the 2 spot. He’s just not considered a perfect 2 because of his outside shooting. I think he could be better if his teamates were as well. A portion of his poor shooting is because the team would rely on him at the end of bad possessions. When he has the space and time to set up, he can make outside shots.
A team that is desperate to get a player that will be available at 2 should be motivated enough. It’s not like Brand can’t play. He can still give a team close to 20 and 10, just not a team that can compete with the LA’s of the league.
Moving up a few positions can make a big difference if a team has a certain player targeted. The price is taking on Brand’s contract. If NJ was willing, I’d give them Brand and the #2 pick for Lopez. It’s not as much of a pipe dream as you seem to think.
He misunderstands a lot of things – but then again you over value the wolves players and undervalue everyone else
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
From Ytylerdurden
so word out of minny is they are in love with turner. i really like him to and would not want us to trade him. but what if minnesota came at us with an offer we couldn’t walk away from? which of these trades would you most like to see happen? The players and picks discussed in a possible trade.
Andre Iguodala- we all know Iggy by now, he would make a great #2 option on our team, never will be a #1 option. He would be a great compliment to Evan Turner, only problem is they have similar games. Turner is used to having the ball in his hands, something both AI and LouWill prefer as well. If we keep Dre, i would imagine turner would start at 2, Dre at 3, and Lou-Dawg would be our #1 guard off the bench. 20009/10 stats: 17.1 PPG, 5.8 APG, 6.5 RPG
Lou Williams- a streaky player, who at times looks like the best player on the court, at times the worst. his defense has gotten better, but he is still known for his offensive prowess. I like Lou, the problem is he’s a shooting guard in a pont guards body. 14.0 PPG
Evan Turner (#2 pick)- Was the best college basketball player in the world last year. Is compared most often to Brandon Roy. Can do a little of everything, though he is not a great (As of yet) outside shooter. His playmaking ability out of the pick-and-roll is fantastic, as is his willingness to include his teammates and make everyone around him better. He is always under control, always in the flow. He is aggressive defensively with quick feet and even quicker hands, hence his 1.7 steals per game. At 6-7 with a capable handle, apt passing ability and an improving stroke, Turner will be able to play both guard spots and even some small forward at the next level. Personally, can;t wait to see him play in Philly. 6’7’’, 210, 20.4 points | 9.2 rebounds | 6.0 assists | 1.7 steals
Al Jefferson- Apparently, can’t co-exist with Kevin Love in Minny. Took a step back last year, but is a good post player and rebounder. Is somewhat injury prone, but is a border-line big man. Contract is similar to A>I’s with one extra year. Has a huge and powerful frame with long arms and can dominate opponents under the basket at both ends: piles up points, rebounds, and blocks. Very quick around the hoop for a man his size, with great hands. Not a good passer or free throw shooter. 17.1 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 50% FG%, 32 MPG 6’10’’ 265 lbs. PF/C. 25y/o.
Kevin Love- Think Minnesota would be hesitant to trade Love, but for y money, I would only trade Turner if we were getting Love back. it looks like he will be a very solid basketball player for many years, though i’m not sure if an all-star. he has a very high basketball IQ, and is a good passer for a big. 6’9", 260. 14.0 PPG, 11.0 RPG. 21 y/o
Ramon Sessions- i think Sessions could be a quality backup PG for us to play behind Holiday. I like LouWill muich better but think Sessions could fit better with our roster. 8.2PPG, 2.6 RPG, 3.1 APG.
Of course the last question is who would we pick with our other first round picks? The #4 pick would most likely give us Favors, Johnson, or Cousins
With pick #16, we could get a eventual replacement for Sammy D, maybe Whiteside (who i like) or Alabi (a salembert clone). At #23 possible a good outside shooter either at 2 or 3. Minnesota also has pick #45 in the 2nd round. So our team could be any of the following next year:
Holiday, Turner, LWill, Iggy, Thad, Brand, Sammy D, Speights, Kapono, Meeks, and JSmith. OR
Holiday, Turner, Sessions, Meeks, Thad, Brand, Jefferson, SammyD, Kapono, Speights, JSmith. OR
Holiday, AI, LWill, Meeks, Thad, Brand, Sammy, Favors/Cousins, Love, Kapono, Speights, Whiteside or
some combination.
What do you think?
Me I like AI and Lou Will, and we could get lots of young prospects for turner, but i think our best team would be to keep turner and move AI and Lou for Ramon and AJ.
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 12:34 PM PDT reply actions
Louis Williams NEVER looks like he best player on the court because louis willliams NEVER plays defense
And those who know him would respect that he hates the nickname iggy
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
and i hate that he cant make an outside shot
and when louwill has the ball in his hands he sometimes looks like the best “scorer” ont thw court. is that better?
Yes – and it is a HUGE difference…because there’s more to basketball tha points – and that’s ALL lou does
and willie
and meeks
and speights
and thaddeus young
which is why the sixers bench is pathetic
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Defense is a team concept, not an individual one. It’s more their ability to play in a good system, than their relative talents. The Sixers defense last season was a joke and more than half of that is on the coach, from the moribund offense on.
I thought the problem was the offense Ricko?
by Michael Levin on May 21, 2010 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions
No, they’re deficient in both. I just thought that they couldn’t manage to score when they needed to, or even have a good possession. Anytime they had the ball and it turned into a fastbreak for the other team, I consider an offensive failure.
They could have done a lot better if they played smart basketball, something I hope Collins takes care of.
AS for defense, I thought that as long as Elton Brand was the PF that we would be in trouble, and that Sam wasn’t going to outscore his counterpart. The Sixers had no defensive presence other than Dalembert, and no one stayed in front of their man. I think this is where Eddie Jordan killed the team, never putting enough players on the floor to get the job done on both ends.
So Jrue and Iguodala never stayed in front of their man? Not to mention, now you’re confusing man defense with team defense. Eddie Jordan’s defensive system was ridiculous. Every player had to help, causing the rest of the players to rotate until there was either a mismatch that worked against the sixers or someone couldn’t rotate in time, leaving an opponent wide open.
But none of this actually matters. As we know the best way to win games is to score 25 points per quarter.
by jefu on May 31, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes you just say the dumbest shit in the world
MAN defense is a factor of THE MAN – and lous MAN DEFENSE sucks
Happy now"
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Trade question from a T-wolves fan
Hey guys, just seeing how this trade would fly from your perspective.
T-wolves trade: #4 pick, #23 pick and Ryan Gomes
76ers trade: #2 pick and Jason Kapono
This seems fair to me and seems to make sense. Gomes is a good 3 or 4 who can rebound and shoot the 3, and also could be released to save you 4 million on the cap.
Kapono seems to have a bad contract that we could relieve you of so you guys won’t be right against the lux tax. You pick up a later pick in a deep draft and still draft #4.
What do you think?
gets rid of no bad contracts and kapono is expiring anyway – no go
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 20, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions
dalembert also expiring so once again no bad contracts gone
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 20, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention the sixers get two crappier picks and ryan gomes
that kind of sucks too
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Sign and trade with the Suns for Amare Stoudemire with the Suns getting Iggy and someone else if you need the money to fit.
PG – Jrue
SG – Evan Turner
SF – Thad
PF – Amare ( or Brand)
C – Sam ( or Amare or Brand)
Go into the year and see how you do. If you suck trade Sam if not keep em’ since he’ll expire anyway.
Might as well trade Thad too since Turner and Thad can’t play together!
(Note: This reply was drenched in sarcasm)
why was it not drenched in poetry seany boy???
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 20, 2010 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions
This article talks some of the same trades
I think the Sixers would pull the trigger on the #4 + #16 + Love version if that’s a serious proposal.
This is the last time anybody links bleacher report on this site.
by Michael Levin on May 21, 2010 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
And I just skimmed the article. Holy crap that’s terrible writing and reporting. Never ceases to amaze me.
by Michael Levin on May 21, 2010 8:05 AM PDT up reply actions
How did the Wizards steal the first pick? How the hell do you earn a pick in the lottery? What a bad article.
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on May 21, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Can we make that law? I enjoy being an enforcer
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Bleacher report has less credibility than vescey, misanelli and eskin…than me for gods sake.
At what point will people stop over rating the wolves assets let alone their gm – he sucks
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t want ot start another fanpost about this – so I’m going to ask for it here.
The Wolves reportedly feel Evan Turner would be their #1 pick if they had won the lottery (which to me is stupid – but that’s a different story).
The Wziards aren’t stupid – no matter what people think – enough to say ‘oh god we have gilbert arenas who due to injury and stupidity has missed most of the last 3 seasons, who isn’t really a point guard, we can’t draft john wall’.
Let’s presume those things are true.
WHAT would it take for you as a sixer fan (not a wolves fan – it’s not relevant to my hypothesis) to be ok with the sixers trading the #2 pick to the wolves. I’m thinking something like
The fourth pick in the first round this year AND their second first round pick this year
The draft rights to ricky rubio
Taking Elton Brand off the sixers hands and balancing it with shorter deals…preferably with al jefferson / kevin love
And Yes i realize that’s an AWFULLY high pricee, but the wolves have made public that they feel that Evan Turner is the #1 pick best player on their board – you pay a high price to get that
The sixers are in what is called the ‘cat bird’ seat…they don’t have to make the trade but the wolves REALLY want the pick – so they can set a level and either minneosta matches it or doesn’t.
What’s your level? Is there one – or is there no deal you’d make with the wolves (straight up, no 3 team deals please, just silly) – to trade Evan Turner?
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 9:12 AM PDT reply actions
My last point for a while…the wolves will have 20-25 million dollars in cap room this off season (after the draft)
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
As a Wolves fan, I highly doubt Rubio would be included in any deal. I think the FO views him as a potential franchise player or possibly right below that level. Similar to what most view as Turner’s ceiling.
While this haul is a ton of talent, I think it would have been possible if the Wolves had drawn #5, but I think the consensus is their are 4 potentially great players in this draft in Wall, Turner, Cousins and Favors, so standing pat is just fine.
Personally, I would rather keep the picks as dealing Jefferson for a veteran wing and picking Cousins is a lot better value in my opinion that taking on Brand, giving up #16, and giving away Jefferson or Love for 1 player.
Again, I’m not the POBO so I can’t say now much they value Evan Turner but this seems a bit over the top. The historical precedent for such a deal is tough, I suppose Golden State gave up 3 future firsts to get Webber, but their was no value on those firsts at the time. Maybe these two deals are comparable, but I don’t think so. Love, Rubio, #4 and #16 while taking back an absolutely terrible contract in Brand is over the top IMO. In Love, Rubio and #4, that is three players with Top 5 pick value. Yikes.
I’ll expand on the views I expressed earlier:
I would trade the #2 for the combo of #4, #16, and Love.
I wouldn’t give up much value to get rid of Brand unless either I was assuming that the Sixers are going to do that anyway through some other salary dumping mechanism or else if they are targeting a specific, relatively young FA that they think would come. If the Wolves cap space makes them see positive or neutral value in Brand’s inclusion that would be a different story, but that would be wrongheaded of them.
Crazy Trade Proposal #2
To Philladelphia: #7 + Tayshaun Prince + Nikola Pekovic
To Detroit: Al Jefferson + Ramon Sessions + #23
To Minnesota: #2 + Elton Brand
Notes: Pekovic has no buyout and is ready to come to the NBA this offseason. True Center, if you don’t know much about him I linked his DX profile to his name. Prince is productive and could be used in trade until the deadline or alternatively you let him expire and Brand’s contract is effectively eliminated.
I’d want #4 if we do that deal. Also possibly someone more valuable long-term than Prince.
by Michael Levin on May 21, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Taking on Brand is such a killer, if I was sitting in the GM chair, I don’t think I could give you both #4 and take back Brand. $50 Million over the next 3 years for very little production is a difficult pill to swallow.
Would you consent to any deal with the following parameters:
Choose 1 of (a) Kevin Love (b) #4 Pick or © Taking Back Brand
Any combination of (a) #16 (b) #23 or © Nikola Pekovic
If you don’t send Brand back, I’d be willing to take on any other contract or multiple contracts besides him.
Brand is still an okay PF (not considering his contract – c.f. http://www.82games.com/0910/0910PHI.HTM ) but the contract is a killer for a young rebuilding team like the Timberwolves. That’s why I believe Brand won’t be traded to Minnesota and it makes more sense to talk about other deals when just those two teams are involved.
Yeah, Minnesota is a bad destination for Brand. Especially when you consider that Brand Played 8 games in ‘07-’08 due to a torn Achilles. Played 29 games in ‘08=’09 due to a separated shoulder. Played 76 games last year and put up 16/7 per 36 minutes, down from his career averages of 19/9 per 36. Hasn’t been a decent player in three years, not even remotely worth 17m per. He also would matchup on defense with the same players that Love and Jefferson matchup with. Tough sell.
To me…everyone is making these trade proposals too complicated.
If Cousins can keep his head straight and work hard, you have to trade down for him at 4 plus the 16th pick, plus Brewer.
The Sixers might then be able to trade up to get Henry.
Or they may be able to draft George if his workout looks good and he’s still on the board.
Cousins has probably as much if not more potential than anyone in this draft as a go-to scorer. He is muti-talented on the break. He should be able to score out of both the high and low post. He should set excellent screens. He should be dangerous on the pick and role…maybe the pop too if he works on it. He is probably the best rebounder in the draft. He can play 2 positions. His post defense should excellent at PF, and solid at center.
Other than his emotional maturity, his only significant weakness is that he will not be feared on defensive rotations at the rim. But with Andre, Brewer, Jrue, whoever else they draft, and Brand they will have one of the more talented and versatile defensive teams in the league surrounding Cousins. So, he wouldn’t have to be a terror as a shot blocker.
There must be something I’m not seeing here…i just don’t get it.
Trade Proposal from a Wizards fan
Okay- im a wizards fan from Bulletsforever.com and I was wondering what you guys would think about a couple of trade ideas with the Wizards.
Wizards Trade:
Gilbert Arenas
Andray Blatche
Trade Exception (6 Million Dollars)
Number 35 Pick in 2010 Draft
Philly Trades:
Number Two pick in 2010 draft
Elton Brand
That’s the worst thing ever. Not the worst trade ever, the worst thing ever.
by Michael Levin on May 22, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Why not just trade Arenas for Brand! Both need a change of scenery and neither team will be able to trade away each contract.
Arenas is a cancer, a poison pill waiting to be swallowed. Brand is not by any stretch of the imagination. That alone is reason enough when talking about a young team. Unless you want Jrue to develop into a “floor general” (in the military sense of the word) and Turner to become a literal “Sniper” you’d best keep Gilbert far away from this team.
In all seriousness, Arenas not only is in my opinion overrated, he instantly competes with our young new PG for playing time. Think to yourself this. Would you want what occurred in the Wizards locker room to happen to us? Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Arenas’ contract worse than Brand’s?
I've actually been thinking the same thing.
The Wiz are way under the cap and the Sixers will go over the lux tax after they sign the #2 pick, assuming they keep it.
I’d do Brand for Arenas as long as the Wiz take on Kapono and Green as well.
New collective bargaining agreement is simple. Give small markets a larger share of the national tv revenue sharing pie, limit MLE's to teams under the lux tax threshold, allow owners to terminate one deal every other year provided players have played at least 3 years on it and limit raises to 5 and 10%
Iguodala and a future 1st to Minnesota for #4(Johnson), #16(big man), and #23.
Dalembert/Brand/Johnson/Turner/Holiday
wolves would never ever do that
and you can’t trade iguodala for just picks – must match salaries
so 0/2 on one proposal – nice
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 24, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
76ers trade #2 pick and Elton Brand to Hornets for David West, Songaila and #12 pick (probably not)
76ers trade #2 pick and Elton Brand to Jazz for Kirilenko and #10 pick
76ers trade #2 pick to Timberwolves for #4 and #17/#24 picks
76ers trade #2 pick and Elton Brand to Kings for Nocioni and #5 pick
76ers get: #5 pick, Michael Redd
Bucks get: Andres Nocioni, Spencer Hawes, #33 pick
Kings get: #2 pick, #16, #50 pick, Elton Brand
better idea!
why not just select Evan Turner with the #2 pick in the draft and then turn around and make this trade
76ers get: #9 pick (Greg Monroe), Kenyon Martin
Clippers get: Andre Igoudala
Nuggets get: Chris Kaman
Clippers could then just go after Brendan Haywood or Chris Bosh with that extra cap space (probably Brendan Haywood)
as everyone forgot about thaduess young? second best potential on our squad? he had a bad year cuz of a lack of consistancy cuz playing time….i love iggy to death but hes 26….the rest of our core speights (21), young (21), holiday (19) and even lou (23) are much younger….i think its time to completely start over…this year was proof enough we wanna trade iggy and now is the time….whats minnesota need most besides evan turner or our pick (:D)….a small forward….whats iggy? A SMALL FORWARD!!!…ok here myword…..minnesota needs a small forward and iguodala, a side from lebron is the best that is publicly availible. minnesota has cap room and we could offer them iggy for the 4th pick (hes much better than wesley johnson who they have to draft)….their line up would be /// C. al jerfferson, PF. kevin love, SF. andre iguodala, SG. corey brewer, PG, johhny flynn…..thats a team like okc that could surprise alota people cuz iggy wont be the main opption alot will be off his shoulders. even if they wanna keep the pick…take the right to ricky rubio cuz hes never playing there and we could shop arpund the right to him or keep him and try to work somethin out…..now say we get the 4th pick, we’ll draft whatever is left of cousins or favors…..our line up……C. Marrese Speights/Dereck Favors, PF. Marresse Speights/Demarcus Cousins, SF. Thaduess Young, SG, Evan Turner, PG, Jrue Holiday….it may not work but ur tellin me that aint worth tryin??? not at all that team will be alot like OKCgive them 2 years…..theyll be flexible now iggys contract is gone, Dalemberts will be next year(re sign him to a small contract cuz he’d be a great techer/backup center) and then when brands contract is up our team will have developed chemistry (like OKC),probably have had some success and we’ll have MONEY (some will be gone from resigning playerslike young or speights) but we’ll have alot left…..use that money to get a few goodplayers or build up a strong bench (like LA) learn from the brand experience and dont sign one giant name and let the pieces fall together and philly WILL BE BACK….argue with me i wanna talk to someone about this, i only have 2 sixers fans for freinds
bad trade for twolves
trading a top 4 pick for Iggy? Maybe #16. Who would you rather have (assuming he would be available. 21 yr old Paul George who makes $2-3 million a yr or 26 yr old Iggy who makes $12 million a year?
i don’t think anyone during the draft would trade a top 5 pick for anything less than a superstar. its also too risky to try and use one draft to try and re build your team. I don’t think we should give up on anyone till we see what Collins is going to do. we will actually be a defense first team and Collins believes he can have Dre in a position to be a first team defender and no one seems to remembers but Dre always said he’d rather win the defensive player of the year than win a scoring title or mvp. I’d stand pat til the season moves forward and if we are not competing then you start trading players.
by killacaravagio on May 23, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Crazy Trade Proposal #3
To Minnesota: Andre Iguodala
To Philadelphia: #7 + Tayshaun Prince
To Detroit: #23 + Al Jefferson
For Philadelphia it allows them to commit to the Evan Turner era immediately and get another Top Draft Pick to invest in the frontcourt that would be at the same age as their Holliday, Turner, Young, Speights core. They also get a high quality immediate replacement in Tayshaun Prince that could be valuable up until the trading deadline or can be used just to clear salary. Good value for Iguoadala.
For Detroit it gives them a player to log major minutes in the frontcourt immediately in Al Jefferson and gives them a player that will be a lot more productive than any likely #7. They also get #23 to add a cheap bench player.
For Minnesota it gives them a veteran shooting guard with at least 3 seasons of team control in his prime. His skillset is a great fit with Rubio and with Rambis’ hybrid triangle. Doing this gives the Wolves a ton of flexibility in the draft as Wes Johnson and Iguodala would compliment each other very nicely as wing players as Iguodala needs to be paired with a shooter. Clearing out Al Jefferson would make adding Favors or Cousins not redundant. Love as somebody capable of running the high post would fit better than Jefferson with both Favors or Cousins as they both operate closer to the basket like Big Al.
This trade is bad for Detroit and I can’t see giving up Iguodala without knowing if he will work well with Turner.
I disagree that this is a poor deal for Detroit, but I doubt you have the best perspective to answer that. I would much prefer Al Jefferson to any option at #7 to contribute major minutes in the frontcourt next year. Anyways, I am asking their fans whether they will do this trade.
Even if you can get passed your emotional attachment to Igguodala, is this fair value for him in trade?
“I doubt you have the best perspective to answer that”
And you being a wolves fan gives you the best perspective to answer that? The pistons are a mess of a team. They need the best draft pick they can get. Trading down to the #23 pick and taking on another bad contract aren’t going to help them.
Exactly, I’m not the best perspective either, that’s why I asked Detroit fans if they would do the trade. Here is the current fanpost with Poll open for this 3 way on Detroit Bad Boys. So far after admittedly just 13 votes, 11 of the 13 support some version of this deal as you can read in the linked fanpost.
I think what you may not realize is that although yes, from a general point of view you shouldn’t trade draft picks, but they have only Maxiell, Wilcox and Villanueva in the post and Wallace looks to be retiring. They are capped out so they can’t use Free Agency beyond the mid-level, where the mid-level never has never produced great rotation bigs in that price range. Their core of Ben Gordon, Charlie V, Stuckey, is around the same age as Jefferson. Jefferson returned from injury this season, but was still productive. His PER was still 19.0 and he’s 25, entering his prime. Do you think you will get better value picking Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe at # 7 or do they get value out of Prince’s contract before it expires, package it for a risky draft pick and get Al Jefferson for 3 years. I don’t see a single other available big in the NBA as a better option for them. Charlie V on offense actually fits quite well next to Al. Yes Post defense is still a problem but 25 teams in the NBA have the same problem.
I understand that you might also want to get rid of Al to bring in Cousins or possibly Favors with your #4 pick. Afterall, it would be nice to bring in a big who can produce offensively, defensively, and under a rookie contract, right?
The problem with Detroit is they are a mess of a team. They are going nowhere fast with Charlie and Gordon. Bringing in Al and his 13 million/year contract isn’t going to help them win a championship. To me, Al is the type of guy you bring in as a final piece to your puzzle. I think the best they can do is to keep tanking and acquire the best picks available for the next few years.
I just don’t see him as the answer to their problem. At this stage, they are not in a win-now mode, they should be looking to develop players.
personlly i liked jefferson but i dont think hes worth that a this point in his career.
by killacaravagio on May 23, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I love this trade for everyone. If Philly could get another top 10 pick and salary cap relief for Iggy then I’m all for it. Build a young core and keep Brand who will have value as an expiring in 2 years.
Detroit needs a big man bad and Jefferson is a great option and a lot more developed than anyone they could take at 7.
Minny gets their wing and frees up PT for the bigs and can take Cousins.
I think this is a solid deal, that even if as jefu believes, that Detroit balks, Minnesota or Philly could offer the Pistons more value. This would have to be a pretty attractive offer for Philly I would think because in the short term you replace Iguodala with Prince, who can be held for production or with trade value to a contender and add # 7 giving you a chance to reload with Turner and another young player similar to what Oklahoma City did with Durant.
The OKC scenario is exactly what I was thinking. At this point we know we have a backcourt in Jrue and Turner and everything going forward should be geared around building around them. At 7 they could probably get Udoh who would be a good fit as the Green to Turner’s Durant. Also in a best case scenario Speights and Udoh could form a nice Offense Defense pair up front. I disagree with Jefu’s thinking Jefferson wouldnt be a better play than the 7 pick. Youre telling me Cole Aldrich will help more than big Al. No way. Detroit signed Gordon and Charlie V, give those guys a post player to play with and see what happens.
With Prince, Sammy D, Kapano, and Willie G all having expiring contracts and Thad and Speights as young guys with potential, Philly would have a lot of ammo to possibly add another big piece to the rebuild with or just let them all walk and clear about 35 mil of the payroll.
Who says cole will be drafted at 7? Do you know this for a fact? Do you know what a #7 pick will develop into? None of us actually know, and to pretend like you know is just asinine. The thing is, a top ten pick could develop into a great player both defensively and offensively. In my mind, that would be better than paying 13 million to an older, injury prone Al Jefferson.
Big Al can’t defend, and Detroit needs a post player who can defend. It’s safe to say that every team needs a big man who can defend. Why do you think Ebomb wants to unload him?
Detroit is going nowhere fast. Do you really perceive them winning a championship even in the next five years? The team is a mess. Why not get your hands on every early draft pick possible why you wait out the crappy contracts of Charlie V and Gordon.
I want to unload him because he and Kevin Love are a poor fit. I would also ship out Love for value as well. Either one would be better paired with Darko than with each other.
Detroit is going nowhere fast. Do you really perceive them winning a championship even in the next five years? The team is a mess. Why not get your hands on every early draft pick possible why you wait out the crappy contracts of Charlie V and Gordon.
I am so thankful you are not the GM of my favorite team. As a fan of a team who has been picking in the 6-15 range for the last several years, good luck building a team with guys who have a 80% failure rate.
You can keep arguing in favor of your bias, but that doesn’t mean it’s logical for the Pistons to consider such a horrible trade suggestion.
If you can explain to me how a “triple threat” of Charlie, Gordon and Jefferson allows them to contend for a championship, I will believe you. Until then, all you’re doing is pointing out bustability using an arbitrary range (6-15) and a made up percentage (80%).
Hey the Jerkstore called. Why won’t you drop this. I already linked the Post above the first time you mentioned the Pistons would balk. I did this at Detroit Bad Boys, the SBNation site filled with Detroit basketball fans. Here is the link.
Currently 82% of the 70 people that voted would make a variation of the above mentioned deal. Some would choose Ramon Sessions instead of the #23 pick, but that is a minor detail.
So even though YOU don’t see the logic for such a deal, a group of people that watch Pistons basketball all year long disagree with you. Excuse me if I tend to look to fans of the actual team to determine whether such a trade would be a PR disaster if Dumars consummates it. I don’t think it would as that albeit small scale Poll shows.
I applaud your effort to ask Detroit fans. But you have to consider that most people reading a poll will just hit a button without really reading into it.
If you would have stated, “Hey guys, do you really think a starting five of Will, an injury prone, 32/33 year old Rip Hamilton, Charlie V, Jerebko and Big Al will contend for a championship in the next two years before Rip’s contract ends and they are left with an overpriced and overrated Ben Gordon as their starting SG along with an accumulation of mediocre draft picks?”
I’m not so sure you would get the same result. The problem with polls is that your average fan doesn’t read into things before voting.
Asking such a poll would not be a very nice thing for me to do as a visitor to said site. I was hoping you’d politely say that you may be mistaken with your outlook on Detroit, but it looks like you are taking this strong contrary viewpoint to the grave. I admire your steadfast resolve.
It’s nothing against you personally. I just don’t like your trade proposal and I don’t think it’s good for Detroit, either.
The problem with suggesting trades is they tend to favor one team over the other. Whichever team is riding shotgun has the advantage to demand more. If you want our #2 pick, propose something worth taking.
I don’t view Turner as a clear cut #1 option, so I doubt I’d value the pick high enough to trade into it. I tried above already and my best offer would probably be #4 + #16 + Ryan Gomes for Louis Williams. Sixers dump a long term deal, get #16.
To me, I don’t want to overpay for Turner, so Philly either believes Turner is the clear cut best player available and takes him, or they see value in Cousins or Favors and trade down on draft day for a reasonable deal. If they value Turner as a franchise player, the price will be too high. I see this as a 4 player draft so trading up from #4 to #2 isn’t worth it for #4 + Love for instance.
Similar deals in the past were when Portland traded up to take LMA and when Utah traded up to snag Williams. Portland traded Victor Krhyapa + #4 to move up to #2. Utah gave up a future first to Portland to move up from # 6 to # 3 in 2005 to snag Williams. I am willing to make similar deals if Philly feels it wants the extra value and still get their guy, but if they love Evan Turner, I don’t trade the franchise for him.
Our team needs a shooting guard who can create his own shot. Turner fills this need. We can’t say anything about not working well with Jrue and Iguodala because we haven’t seen them play.
I think this is a great opportunity for Philly and I don’t match Turner with Favors/Cousins. Cousins has red flags and Favors is more of a project with higher bustability.
Who would you take if you had the #2 pick?
I see no huge separation between any of the Top 4 guys. Favors, Cousins, Wall and Turner are all good players with Turner having the lowest ceiling, but also the highest floor.
If I was starting a franchise from scratch, I would take Cousins because I think his ceiling is the highest. He measured out huge, is much more athletic than given credit for, and was the top producer in College Basketball as a freshman. The last big man who produced like he did in college and also had a 9’5" standing reach was Shaq. There are no other comparables for the production and size that Cousins has shown.
For a team like the Wolves with nobody on their roster that should start at either SG or SF, I would take Turner, because he is good value at a position of need.
If I was New Jersey I would take Favors because he is a great fit both offensively and defensively with Lopez. I would not take Turner because the roster is completely devoid of big men beyond Lopez and Yi. Failure to address this situation would be terrible for Lopez’ development. Favors will play the low post on offense and have the versatility to guard anybody. I’m nervous about Favors developing in Jersey with a scoring point like Harris not setting him up for easy baskets, but with Lee and Williams Favors makes the most sense. Cousins would be interesting because I think Brook is mobile enough to guard PF’s and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was picked.
If I was Philadelphia, I think all three should be in play. Dalembert is there for 1 more year, Brand is a shell of his favor self and even if he gets back to contributing, he’s not a franchise front court player. I think Holliday can be a great two way point and be an All-Star player. Iguodala is a great 2nd option. Putting me on the spot I would take Cousins because it balances the roster, gives you a chance for a ridiculously talented young PG-C core with veteran wings to help you start winning immediately. If I do take Turner, I trade Iguodala immediately before his trade value suffers via redundancy. I know that all too well with Love and Jefferson both good players in their own right but because off poor on the court fit, both have reduced value. I don’t think there is any way that a Holliday-Turner-Iguodala trio will work long term, but I admit to being wrong on occasion. If Turner comes in and produces immediately, Philadelphia runs the risk of being a better Detroit in that they will have strong production at positions 1-3 but not have the cap room, assets, or high enough draft picks to get help at PF and C. I’m a big believer of building from the inside out. If Philly goes with Turner, it will be interesting to see how they progress as they aren’t very many comparable teams that have built that way beyond the Cassell-Allen-Big Dog Bucks teams.
BTW, there is no need to re-hash Cousins red flags, I am well aware of them all. I argue enough about them at Canishoopus, but I have been a staunch Cousins supporter even before the Lottery.
i think andre's best position is SF though, so i think jrue, AI, and tuner would work fine
by ytylerdurden on May 25, 2010 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions
granted if favors or cousins was more of a sure thing
a big man would be better, but i feel philly must get a go-to scorer with this pick, and turner is that guy right now
by ytylerdurden on May 25, 2010 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions
It has nothing to do with Positions and everything to do with skillsets. Positions are great for telling me whether a lineup will work on Defense, which Holliday-Turner-AI will most certainly work. I’m more concerned about offense as posted in other threads, teams will pack the lane against these three making live difficult for Dalembert and Brand inside and forcing that trio to shoot from the outside. Another year of declining shooting percentages for AI9 will only hurt his trade value. That’s a real risk IMO.
BTW
Arbitrary percentages?
Hollinger did a regression analysis of all picks passed for last years draft found here. In it shows the expected value for the #7 pick in the draft is someone like Jayson Williams, PG, drafted by the Kings.
Do you really believe that it’s a poor move trading out of the rights to select Jayson Williams for Al Jefferson + Ramon Sessions, at least one starter, potentially two? I wouldn’t.
BTW, since your so rosy on the draft, here are the last 10 #2 picks, Thabeet, Beasely, Durant, LMA, Marvin Williams, Okafor, Milicic, Jay Williams, Tyson Chandler, Stromile Swift. I may wait a few months before you sign up Evan Turner for 24-7-7 because the history of the NBA draft shows otherwise.
1. Now you are changing your trade proposal?
2. Where would Kobe Bryant (drafted #13) rank on this regression analysis? You never know what you’re getting with a pick, but trading #7 for #23 certainly reduces your chances.
3. The #2 draft picks over the last ten years consisted of a different group of players and different GM’s choosing them. I trust Dileo. He’s made good decisions in the past with the exception of Rodney Carney.
4. What exactly was the point of you listing the last ten years’ "2s?
1. As I stated above twice, I gave Detroit fans several options, they could either keep the #23 pick in the deal as proposed above, or replace the #23 with Ramon Sessions. They are in need of a distributing PG since Stuckey is more of a scorer, so someone like Sessions very much appeals to them. As a Wolves fan, both hold similar value.
2. Of Course trading from #7 to #23 reduces your chances, but it also hedges your bets so that your entire offseason progress isn’t tied to whether a successful 21 year old college player will have similar success in the NBA. In this case they get at least 1 known commdotiy and potentially 2 if they prefer Sessions to # 23.
3 + 4. Your GM has made some solid picks. I of course am not saying Turner or Favors or Cousins or whoever the Sixers get will bust, just that all these guys that are projected to be top flight contributors won’t be, which reinforces the point I was making about why Detroit may do this deal. You lower your risk in the draft by taking a known commodity. Choosing one strategy over the other in team building approaches isn’t right or wrong.
I can see why you want to unload Sessions given your influx of PGs in the future. Sessions is still developing and it’s uncertain whether he would be the answer to Detroit’s PG problems. He also makes 3.6 million a year. I’m not sure swapping #23 for Sessions would work out mathematically.
Of course if Detroit takes Al Jefferson they know what they’re getting. He’s a developed player. Unfortunately, what they’re getting wouldn’t lead to championship contention. Of course I can’t prove this, but float the idea around to some more basketball savvy people and they would probably scoff at the idea. With a lottery pick, you could get more. It’s a chance and that’s about the best I think Detroit can do at this point in time.
Yes, you have to choose a strategy to build a team. You can’t really argue one approach over another. I agree with this. Unfortunately, last year Dumars chose to build a team via free agency and it flopped. You don’t try to patch holes with more expensive contracts if it’s not going to lead to your ultimate goal. At some point, you have to admit when you’ve made a mistake and try to move on. If not, you are showing desperation. Desperate GM’s/Presidents never make sound decisions. If that’s the case, maybe you’re right, maybe Dumars will do a deal like this. In which case they will be stuck in mediocrity. As a sixers fan, I know how much that sucks.
I’m not sure swapping #23 for Sessions would work out mathematically.
That’s why in the Poll to Detroit the Deal was #7 + Tayshaun Prince + Chris Wilcox for Al Jefferson + Ramon Sessions. Admit it, you didn’t read the Post at all.
Of course I can’t prove this, but float the idea around to some more basketball savvy people and they would probably scoff at the idea.
Is this suppose to be an insult, because it reads like one. It also sets up a straw men because these unnamed basketball people can’t be argued with.
With a lottery pick, you could get more.
As I’ve been arguing, that’s a debatable premise. Clearly you value Lottery Picks more than contributing veterans. I can’t say you are right or wrong.
Yes, you have to choose a strategy to build a team. You can’t really argue one approach over another. I agree with this. Unfortunately, last year Dumars chose to build a team via free agency and it flopped. You don’t try to patch holes with more expensive contracts if it’s not going to lead to your ultimate goal.
So what should they do. They are committed to Rip, Gordon, and Charlie for the forseeable future and none of those contracts are going to be easy to move. Do they waste 3 years trying to hit the lottery and surround those 3 with young or non-existent production in the post.
These struggling teams with no post presence will still cost a lot of money, win little games, and give little revenue. If adding someone like Al takes them from 27 Wins to 40 Wins and makes them a fringe playoff team in the East, that is extra income for Detroit it won’t get without a veteran post presence. Al Jefferson is a risk. Standing pat and taking Cole Aldrich is a risk. You are certain Al Jefferson won’t bring them a championship. I am certain the #7 pick won’t bring them a championship. You are certain you are correct today, time as always will tell.
“Admit it, you didn’t read the Post at all.”
I admit, I didn’t read the post. I also admit you didn’t propose it on this site.
“Is this suppose to be an insult, because it reads like one. It also sets up a straw men because these unnamed basketball people can’t be argued with.”
Let’s not get fussy here. This is an open blog. Anyone with more basketball knowledge than you or I is more than welcome to comment. You’re still not addressing how adding Al is supposed to make Detroit a championship contender.
“Al takes them from 27 Wins to 40 Wins and makes them a fringe playoff team in the East, that is extra income for Detroit "
Since this is a sixers blog, I’ll use the sixers as a reference to disprove that point.
In 07-08 and 08-09 the sixers ranked 23rd in attendance. We went to the playoffs both years. Last year, coming off a playoff appearance we ranked 26th with almost the same average attendance (plus/minus 500-1,000).
So your logic is that Detroit takes on Al’s 13 million/year, possibly gets to 40 wins with this addition and that’s supposed to increase revenue in a city that’s already struggling with economic problems?
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance
“taking Cole Aldrich is a risk”
And what’s this with Cole Aldrich at #7? Why do you keep bringing up Aldrich? If anything, Aldrich has the least amount of “risk” when compared to the other players projected to go around the 7th pick. If Detroit wants to settle for someone like Aldrich and play it safe, that’s on them. They also have the opportunity to draft a player with high up-side/bustability. It’s a chance, and when you’re struggling, you might as well take the chance.
I keep bringing up Aldrich, because that was the comparable Big that their fans said would be available at #7 and would make them assess the value of this deal. Do they want Aldrich on the cheap for 5 years or 3 years of Jefferson and 3 years of Sessions. The trade for Detroit is salary neutral for next season, they aren’t taking on Al’s $13 Million for all three seasons. They would be taking on $14 Million and $15 Million in the last two years of Al’s deal. They also wouldn’t be paying years 2 and 3 of the #7 pick which would be $7 Million in total for those two years. So this trade costs them $7 Million a year for 3 seasons to add Al Jefferson and a rotation player. I don’t know what Detroit’s books are know whether this is reasonable for them.
Ok, but I think we can agree on this:
We both think adding Al to Detroit could put them in the 40 win range.
I think this is the upside to adding Al and isn’t the long-term answer to being a contender and increasing ticket sales. This is mainly because Detroit has already taken on too much salary with their free-agent signings this past off-season. Upon this, as a team they have too many holes ranging anywhere from a PG who’s more of a shooter to their best players aging with chronic injuries. Thus, I think it’s a bad trade for Detroit (which was my original point).
You are getting my point. They have taken on too much salary so your prescription is to lose more until that’s salary is gone. My prescription is to add as many wins as possible this offseason, then do the same again next offseason. Two different strategies.
id rather have jefferson than aldrich,
thus this trade would not be bad for detroit, imho
by ytylerdurden on May 25, 2010 6:43 AM PDT up reply actions
BTW, since your so rosy on the draft, here are the last 10 #2 picks, Thabeet, Beasely, Durant, LMA, Marvin Williams, Okafor, Milicic, Jay Williams, Tyson Chandler, Stromile Swift. I may wait a few months before you sign up Evan Turner for 24-7-7 because the history of the NBA draft shows otherwise.
I don’t see how this is relevant but, since I am bored, let’s look at these picks one-by-one.
Thabeet was a surprise pick at #2. Most people expected Ricky Rubio, Tyreke Evans, or James Harden to go there. The Grizzlies preferred to go with the high bustability bigman instead. The jury is still out on Thabeet though. No one expected him to contribute in his first couple of seasons.
Beasley was the consensus #2 pick but there were a lot of questions about his size, defense, and attitude. Tons of red flags with a ton of talent.
Don’t think I have to mention Durant.
2006 was a weak draft. There were 4 or 5 people that could have been the #1 pick. Toronto went with Bargnani. Blazers decided to go big. Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay slipped further than expected. Aldridge wasn’t a horrible pick especially considering the 3 players picked directly after him.
Marvin Williams was a surprise pick. Most thought Chris Paul would go #2 but the Hawks seemed to value a big with upside over a guard with a good track record. It was seen as a bad pick at the time and, in hindsight, it certainly was.
2004 was fairly weak as well after Dwight Howard. Okafor isn’t bad when healthy. The players picked directly after him were Ben Gordon and Shaun Livingston.
Darko was another pick that was highly questioned at the time. Again, the pick was a big with high upside instead of wings/guards who had track records in college.
2002 draft sucked. Yao was the unquestioned #1 pick. After that, Amare (relatively unknown coming out of high school) and Caron Butler were the only lottery picks that amounted to anything.
Tyson Chandler wasn’t too bad of a pick. Obviously Gasol would have been much better. That was that weird draft where none of the top 4 picks were college players. Chandler ended up being the best of the high schoolers.
2000 may have been the worst draft in history. Stromile Swift may have been a bust but the best players to come out of this lottery were Kenyon Martin, Mike Miller, and Jamal Crawford.
If anything, this exercise made me feel better about Turner over Favors. It seems most of these bad picks at #2 are on high upside bigmen who were taken over guards who had better careers.
It really is startling how bad #2 picks have been in the last 10 years. As you breakdown, a lot of that can be attributed to poor decision making by GM’s with Thabeet last year being a prime example, but still, there have been some bad drafts and draftpicks. I am hoping that this draft turns out to be deep like that 2008 draft so the 3 first round picks the Wolves have turn up some value.
also, your thought process is all over the place. First you say a tandem of Turner and a #7 pick could be like the Thunder (let’s ignore all the other things wrong with that statement), then you say a #7 pick couldn’t help Detroit as much as Jefferson could.
If you’re comparing any old #7 pick to Green on the Thunder, that tells me you are certainly undervaluing Green and overvaluing Jefferson…
If this is really what you think, why not just straight up trade Iguodala for Jefferson?
1. Durant Green and Turner and the 7 pick arent exact parallels, just similar in getting a franchise scorer and having another top ten pick that could be used to complement him. No more no less.
2. In a way I agree with you about Detroit going not getting a ring in the next couple years. In fact, youre probably right. The only thing is after giving all that money to Charlie V and Gordon, the org isnt in a position to just eat their salaries and tank. They would just bleed money. Adding Jefferson to the mix would give them a decent amount of talent that could make things interesting. If Minny throws in the 16 instead of 23, to move back 9 spots and add a big guy like Jefferson is a pretty good haul.
3. I would trade Iguodala straight up for Jefferson. And try to get more if I could.
In regards to your third statement: you couldn’t get more unless you packaged more players with iguodala and took some of their bad contracts in return. there is no point in doing that. Iguodala and Jefferson are making almost the same amount this year, so by the rules, a direct trade is about the only thing that works.
In general, I disagree with getting rid of Iguodala simply because we are in no position to contend and it’s more important to at least see if Iguodala will work alongside Turner. To just assume he won’t work is, again, asinine.
In regards to your second statement, again, I have to disagree. I don’t see them contending with or without Jefferson. I don’t see Jefferson on any team that can contend unless you have another big that can make up for his defensive deficiencies. Most teams can’t contend unless they have solid defense in their lineup. To “make things interesting” sounds more like making things mediocre, which would lead to mid-round draft picks and not help Detroit’s situation.
In regards to your first comment, you said the sixers should take Detroit’s pick and we would be better with the #7 pick. You also said Detroit would be better with jefferson. The difference is, with a #7 pick, Detroit could draft a player who could develop into a more well-rounded player. It’s possible, why not take the chance? The worst that could happen is they keep tanking and get the opportunity to draft better players.
Getting Al Jefferson to move down 9 spots is not a bad move. I understand you pov but its not unreasonable either. You could very possibly get a player at 16 who can contribute long term just as much as the 7 pick. And Al is still young. I do agree with a lot of your points on them but I think its unrealistic to expect that franchise to openly tank for 4 years. Maybe it would be for the best but thats not going to happen with all the money they spent.
I also am not saying that Iggy and Turner cant work together but Turner and Jefferson would probably be a better fit. Honestly I would rather trade Iguodala for something else but Jefferson isnt a terrible option either.
“its unrealistic to expect that franchise to openly tank for 4 years.”
You’re right, it’s unrealistic, but what else do you expect when Dumars ruined Detroit with all of the dumb free-agent signings this past off-season? In fact, if you follow his logic, I would completely expect him to do something stupid like sign Jefferson in exchange for draft picks.
“You could very possibly get a player at 16 who can contribute long term just as much as the 7 pick.”
It’s possible, but a difference of 9 picks inbetween tells me it’s a lot less likely. I would go so far as to say drafting a player with long-term significance at 16 has more luck than expectation. And also, the deal ebomb proposed would have Detroit giving up their #7 pick for the #23 pick (plus Jefferson). This isn’t a deep draft this year, and I wouldn’t settle for 23, or even 16 if it meant I had to give up #7 while taking on another huge contract with virtually no hope of contending any time soon.
Trading the #2 pick to get rid of Brand would be stupid
The guy may not be the same 20-10 guy he was in LA, but I still think he can still be a serviceable 16-8 guy. Anyway trading away a potential franchise player just to get rid of a bad contract would be stupid. There wouldn’t be any major players in free agency in 2011 and Brand’s contract would expire in 3 years anyway- a time when Turner and Jrue will be in their primes.
It’s going to be an interesting season, we have 23 mill in expiring contracts, and young players such as Young, Speights, Williams, and Smith that we can trade away for franchise players.
AI to Warriors proposal
Hi Sixers fans, this trade proposal is from Golden State of Mind:
- draft pick + Corey Maggette + Reggie Williams for Andre Iguodala
Maggette is an efficient scorer, one of the best in the league. Will become your best scorer right away.
+Williams has a lot of upside, and has put up some impressive numbers in his short Warriors tenure
-neither play defense, although Williams is a rookie
-Maggs is 31 and is owed 10 mil per year through the 12-13 season
P.S., I didn’t even get a warning about my previous post and I wasted a bit of time writing that up (of course I didn’t save it either). Plus I saw that Hornets post was still around. Sorry, that’s the end of my rant.
how about b.wright
instead of williams? then i’d do it
by ytylerdurden on May 25, 2010 6:46 AM PDT up reply actions
BWright, huh? I thought only Warrior fans were high on him seeing as he’s only been healthy enough to play in less than 70 games the last 2 years. I like him a lot, but I’m wondering what you were thinking about him.
No love for Williams? Want to see some stats? He’s been really fantastic for us this year. No doubt we would have lost even more games without him.
well i think he's still got potential
seems very similair to randolph, so figure you’d move him for cheap, but yes im not too familair with williams
by ytylerdurden on May 26, 2010 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions
1.
To Indiana: Mareese Speights, Jason Smith
To Philly: Roy Hibbert, Solomon Jones
2.
To Memphis: Willie Green, Jason Smith
To Philly: Hasheem Thabeet, Hamid Haddadi
3.
To Golden State: Thaddeus Young, Jason Smith
To Philly: Anthony Randolph, C.J Watson
4.
To Toronto: Elton Brand
To Philly: Hedo Turkuglu, Marcus Banks
none of these trades make any sense. You’re basically just matching up salaries without giving any thought to stock and need.
pretty much but if someone wants to take willie green they can have him
by killacaravagio on May 25, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
i hoped for the 2nd pick and we got it
by killacaravagio on May 26, 2010 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions
no to #1, (i like speighs and smith- not too big on solomon)
yes to #2- though i dont think memphis would part with hasheem just yet
not sure on #3, id hate to lose thad but randolph might be werth it (was hoping for randolph in the draft)
yes to #4- only cause we’d move brand and turkuglu hopefully can still shoot from the outside, opening up the lane for turner and AI9
just checked #4 on trade machine and it works
this would be good for both teams. brand could at least be a hope for toronto to replace bosh, and hedo could hopefully make some 3s for us. it would be both of us getting rid of dead weight and not sure if banks can still play at all, but would be a better passing backup point for us. great idea rajav
can i paint his yoo-hoo goooooooolllllddddd?
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 26, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
this trade works too,
any hopes of us sending elton and smith to detroit, minnesota getting prince and maxiell, and us getting jefferson and sessions. i think this would be great for us and i could see detroit POSSIBLY taking brand but not sure about everyything else
interesting trade idea posted on nameless sight (not sure if i like it, but see what you think)
Warriors receive: Elton Brand, Andre Iguodala, Sam Dalembert (expiring), No. 2 pick (2010 – from Philly)
76ers receive: Corey Maggette, O.J. Mayo, Andris Biedrins, Zach Randolph (expiring), Ronny Turiaf, No. 12 pick (2010 – from Memphis), No. 25 or No. 28 pick (2010 -from Memphis), future first-round pick (from Golden State – top-three protected for a few years)
Grizzlies receive: Monta Ellis, Brandon Wright, No. 6 pick (2010 – from Golden State), Kelenna Azubuike or Anthony Morrow (sign-and-trade)
yes i know a trade this complicated would never happen, just something to talk about
Wow, that pretty much guts the team. :) I’m not sure Dalambert is better than a healthy Biedrins, and he’s cheaper too.
Could be interesting:
1-Curry
2-Azubuike
3-Iguodala
4-Randolph w/ Brand as mentor
5-Cousins(IMO)/Dalembert
I don’t see a trade like this happening because the Warriors owner is selling the team soon. Definitely worth thinking about though.
please admit that you’ve never actually seen a trade transpire in the NBA and that you are just plugging random names into the trade machine.
as said, was listed on that sight that shall remain nameless,
and as said i know it would never happen was curious what everyone thought
i thought is was interesting enough to at least post and get reactions
and nope, i’ve never seen a trade before and just closed my eyes and clicked on names
by ytylerdurden on May 26, 2010 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
“and nope, i’ve never seen a trade before and just closed my eyes and clicked on names”
If you would have been serious in making this comment, I would have believed you just as easily – that’s how ridiculous the trade suggestion was.
again, not my suggestion
something i read that could be debated.
no more crazy then, as suggested earlier, we get someone who can play basketball at all, in a trade for willie green
by ytylerdurden on May 27, 2010 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions
than/then - what's the difference?
The difference is, the Willie comment was intended for humor. The other trade suggestion was meant for serious discussion, but happened to be humorous.
trade
Suns, if they blow it with the lakers, sign stoudamire. Then a trade to philly, stoudemaire and richardson, for iggy, dalembert, and lou. Pick up turner and go from there. Hows that sounds.
Pg Holiday
Sg Turner
SF Richardson
PF Young or Brand
C Stoudemire.
dalmebert
I cant watch dalembert for another season. He’s terrible. Sure he can block shots and rebound. But damn, no other game to him. Sixers imo, should try and unload him. I get the center part. I dont know, just thinkin man.
they probably will keep dalembert. Which stinks. Brand, that contract is too huge as we all know. I think i read a while back, not sure, the suns wanted iggy? Anways, we all will have to see.
here's the 07-08 celtics plan
first trade: lou williams, mo speights, thad young, kapono 4 joe johnson in a sign-and-trade with hawks.
second trade: elton brand and #2 pick in a sign-and-trade for bosh.
new starting 5:
holiday
joe johnson
iguodala
bosh
dalembert
fill the bench with mid-level, bi-annual, veteran’s minimum. bam, you got a poor man’s 07-08 celtics.
book it baby
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 26, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
no heart on that team...
the criticisms of both Bosh and Joe Johnson are similar to the criticism of the 76ers (at least the Eddie Jordan version)…no leadership/heart nor the willingness or ability to be THE guy but we’d have a lot more talent…
Id actually predict an ATL-like season. 50-32 and out in the 1st round.
favors
Since the blog about favors came up, why not this. SIxers need a good shooter. How about trading the 2 pick to the wolves for al jefferson and their pick to get wesley johnson? This is assuming they dont unload iggy.
Thad & Jason Smith for Ryan Gomes and #16 from Minnesota
Yay or Nay or Am I dumb???
Na
Thad had a bad season and regressed, but who didnt under eddie jordans stupid system. if he can return to the year before or better, he’s a gem. Jason smith, we could unload. I still like the up side of thad thou.
Replace thad with lou
and take away smith? The slaries probly work, if not then the wolves throw some1 else in.
if we re-sign Thad
How much would it be worth? 6mill/season?
Also does he have a future at the 3?, because if he doesn’t I don’t want him.
Anyway, unless the Sixers can acquire a superstar, they shouldn’t make any trade until the trade deadline next season when they have a better idea of how good their players are.
Trade idea with Dallas
PHI gets;
Caron Butler
Erick Dampier
Jason Kidd
DAL gets:
Iguodala
Dalembert
Lou Williams
I am pretty sure Dallas was high on AI9 and disapointed with Dampier last year. I also know they want out of Kidd’s contract. Seems to me a win win for everyone.
Dallas side;
- AI9 and Williams will get to the basket and the line which Dallas needs.
- IA9 will make them better on D.
- Dalambert will run the floor better for them and block shots.
For Philly
- Collins gets a PG that he can use for 2 years to show Holiday how to run the floor
- Dampier may not be a big upgrade but his body would help us match up against the C in the East.
- Butler gets a chance to earn a contract or be let go at the end of the season. Maybe even moved before the yea is up for something of value to the Sixers.
id rather give holiday the playing time than have kidd and this seems more like a trade to dump dre
by killacaravagio on May 28, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets face it, the fan base will not get better till the team gets better. With lower revenue coming in the sixers as a business should cut salaries. Well AI9 and Lou Williams will be easier to package together than any deal including Brand.
Worst case senerio with this trade is the sixers clear 23 million off the books for 20011/2012; 31.5 million for 2012/2013. (This only counts this trade not the sixers already expiring contracts)
Best case senerio Butler and/or Dampier prove to fit in with this team and are resigned for still lesser money than AI9 and Dalembert. (Plus you get rid of the bad Lou Williams contract)
neither has a bad contract only bad contract we have is brand. each is making about what they should and damps done caron might be use full but this trads only good for dallas.
by killacaravagio on May 29, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Well
this is terrible for the sixers…
by guitarmouse35 on May 29, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
backwards
to me, i c that trade leading us backwards. Id rather keep iggy. Again, if the suns lose to the lakers, a sign and trade with them for amare and jrich. They get iggy, who they are high on, dalembert and lou. They sign amare to a deal and ship him and jrich to us for those three players. Anotther one i mentioned, is with the wolves. Al Jefferson and thier top five pick, for iggy and our top 2 pick, which they want turner. We could get jefferson and wes johnson? Those are stil my trade thoughts.
not bad idea
and wesley would fit nicely with jefferson coming. however i like favors or turner still much better.
but i would certainly consider both trades
And I agree with you on the Holiday get more minutes. However when he is not getting it done you need a guy that could spark the offense. Kidd can distribute the ball as well as anyone and could give us a pick and roll game with Brand.
I just think that Lou Williams is not the answer a the 1 and if they draft Turner to be the 2 we will have 9.5 million sitting the bench in Willie and Lou. And Lou’s contract runs to 2013. Rather clear that money with a vet I know can do the job and has a shorter contract.
i agree that Lou should’nt be the one setting up the offense but i think his scoring punch will prove it self this coming season. and yes we need a solid back up not j kidd he’d push jrue out of the line up with just his name and it kills development. you need a solid veteran gaurd not a fading allstar.
by killacaravagio on May 29, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
lou has sparks of great offensive and used to love him. But he’s way too inconsistent. In a trade please.
by mothergoose on May 30, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
you cant count last year as inconsistent cause nothing was consistent. playing time role and the fact that he was left in games when he was abused defensively. i say stay pat til the coach sees what he has and if he can make it work
by killacaravagio on May 30, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
At the beginning of the year, before he was injured Lou was putting up all-star numbers at the point. I think Holiiday has the tools and size to be a better point than Lou but Lou is an excellent backup point and he can light it up more than any other Sixer, (except maybe Speights)
where are you getting this speights stuff he was ok lou scored better
by killacaravagio on May 31, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Good followup point on Kidd. I went back and compared Dan Gibson and Lou Williams contracts. Guess your right there is only a 2M difference over the next 3 years. (Guess I might be a little nit picky over 1 to 2 Mill)
Wait two years to trade Elton’s 18 million expiring contract. Favors, Holliday, Iguodala, Young and Speights will be in their primes and we can go after Lebron when he demands out of of NY.
suns trade
Now is the time folks. Now is the time. Now is the time to trade Iggy, Dalembert, and Lou, to the suns. Its prime. Its raw. Amare signs with the suns, and is traded with Jrich and possibly barbosa for the three sixers I mentioned. They have been high on iggy and their roster is at the end. Our starting five next year.
Holiday
Turner
Richardson
Brand
Stoudemire.
Bench: Young, Speights, Meeks, Kapono, Green. The bench can add some vets.
Call me crazy, but i see this team as a good squad.
once again, folks, if Amare is going to sign with the Suns again, it wouldn’t be for a sign and trade. That idea is just ridiculous.
Amare
All Amare does is the pick and roll game with nash. Personally, I do not think he can do that nearly as well with Lou or Jrue. nash who is a hall of fame caliber PG makes him look as good as he is. Also, Amare in some games gets less than about 5 Boards a game. That is terrible for a Center. So no it is never a good idea to get Amare.
Yeah
he would not fit with our team at all. Not to mention the jam we’d have at the 4 (Brand, Thad, Speights, Amare) with no SF or Center (if andre and sammy were in the trade).
If we did a trade I would want a true center to replace Sammy.
by guitarmouse35 on May 31, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Like say if Cousins falls to late first round, I’d try to work something out so we’d get Turner and Cousins.
by guitarmouse35 on May 31, 2010 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions
No way Nets take him. They’ll take Favors. I think he slips to 6 or 7.
by guitarmouse35 on May 31, 2010 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
favors
favors is a mistake. No more projects. Turner is the dude. If you cant shoot and be good coming out of college, to me, you got no buisness sigingn multimillion dollar contracts. Its just laziness. Get on the court and work on your shot. No projects. Number two pick, its insane. So many great athletes but no game on the block and shooting. Do we want another one? Na.
you're right
because Shaquille O’Neil and Dwight Howard were not effective because of their lack of shooting.
howard
only reason howard gets good numbers is cause he wrecks other people with his elbows and throws his body around like its the world wresteling fed or UFC. Cant shoot a free throw to save his life.
every dominate big man had an elbow issue its just part of the position
by killacaravagio on May 31, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Favors is a monster inside. A dominant big man at the age of 18 in College scoring on the the other ACC big men with ease. Good ups and shot-blocking ability. He’s not a project, he’s exactly what the Sixers need, a big man who can stand toe-to toe with Kendrik Perkins and score on him, better than Dwight Howard managed to do.
Look at his out-takes from the season, no way Favors is a mistake. He’s a 20 and 10 guy.
Favors wasn’t even close to a dominant big man. The knock on him was that he was almost completely invisible at Georgia Tech. The excuses were that GT’s guards sucked and he basically played the same position as an NBA caliber uperclassman on his team (Gani Lawal)
Favors was 19th in the ACC in ppg, 5th in rpg (behind two other lottery picks and Lawal), and 3rd in blocked shots (behind Ed Davis and Soloman Alabi). If Favors was dominant than Ed Davis was MVP caliber.
Favors is a huge project offensively. He has no post moves, no jump shot, and can’t hit FTs. Whoever drafts him has to completely start from scratch on his offensive game. He’s certainly not scoring on KG or Perkins in his rookie season.
i was going to comment on his post but realized he didn’t watch college basket ball from his other posts and the fact he called favors a dominant big-man
by killacaravagio on May 31, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
his reasoning is making me really not like picking favors
by killacaravagio on May 31, 2010 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions
thank you
finally someone who gets it, project.
make a trade that doesnt involve #2 and i'll listen
Miami was able to get Shaq in his prime without giving up Dwayne Wade
Same goes for Garnett and Gasol
how about...
Bosh does a sign and trade then…
Sixers get bosh and #13 pick
Raptors get: Brand, Young, Lou
With the #13 pick the sixers then trade it along with IG to the kings for Jason Thompson and the #5 pick.
Sixers then take Wes Johnson.
Your starting 5 then is this assuming Evan Turner is a sixer:
PG: Jrue
SG:Turner
SF: Wes Johnson
PF: Bosh
C:Jason Thompson.
Yes it is a young and inexperience starting 5 minus bosh but Doug Collins will work a lot better with young players a lot more than Brace Face ever did. And they will have some more cap space with just getting bosh and unloading sammy D and Ig.
you said Brand not sammy we’re getting rid of.
by guitarmouse35 on May 31, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah sorry brand instead of Sammy. And I guess worse comes to worse Sammy D just comes off the bench because I honestly do not think any other team is going to take him. I hate having that $ on the bench though. Only problem with that, despite him being a good player coming off the bench
Do the salaries match up?
I kind of like that, but we’d still have Sammy starting over Jason Thompson.
I mean if the other teams would do that I probably would, but it’s a long shot for sure.
by guitarmouse35 on May 31, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
why exactly do raptors do this at all?
"I'm a beast ready to be unleashed." -- Paul George
by Tanner Steidel on May 31, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Bosh yes, Amare no. There is no PG on the sixers that can work the pick and roll like Amare and Steve Nash do. Which is the only reason why Amare gets as much hype as he does because nash makes him look so good. Bosh also has many more moves and plays a lot better defense than Amare as well. Bosh is also a 20-10 guy unlike Amare.
Yeah, I’d rather have Bosh. More dimensions to his game.
by guitarmouse35 on Jun 1, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Ain't no way the Kings are giving up the 5th pick in this scenario.
The only likelihood the Kings give up the 5th pick is to trade up with Philly (seems the most reasonable trading partner) and take (I’m guessing) Favors.
Question is: What would it take for Stefanski to trade down? A lot, and I’m not sure Stefanski will do it. I’m not sure of anything at this point.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985......
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
how about we just dump our crappiest/most overpaid players to another team for some of their best players. That’s how trades work in the real world, afterall.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
but it works in video games when you have the trade overide on… cause that’s what most of these trades look like to me. something people can pull of on cheat mode in a video game.
by killacaravagio on Jun 1, 2010 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions
all you do is slam every trade listed. you really think rip is that much better than brand?
you seem to be on here only to make fun of everyone who posts anything jefu, what’s up with that? this is an open trade thread for people to discuss and trades they want, realistic or not. Obviously if salaries wouldn’t work, it can be dismissed but anything else, should be open for debate. if you don’t like the trade, simply say you think it is too one-sided, stop being a dick about it
You’re right, this trade thread is open for discussion, and I’m discussing how stupid the proposals are. Maybe you should do a little research into past trades to see how they actually work. Beyond matching salaries – why would teams want these players? What are the long-term/short-term goals by acquiring these players? Which team is desperate and which team has the upper-hand, and why? Are they going after a missing piece or dumping salary? Etc.
Here, let me break down the one you suggested above:
Rip has two years left on his contract.
Brand has three years left.
Rip is arguably Detroit’s best player, but even if he wasn’t/isn’t, he can be an E.C. after next year.
NO ONE WILL TAKE BRAND’S CONTRACT. Other teams wouldn’t even take Brand’s contract when coupled with Iguodala. Why in the hell would Detroit take Brand’s contract when coupled with Jason Smith???
Maxiell is a somewhat competent bench player who has even started in the past. He’s also durable.
Jason Smith will, at best, be fighting to stay in the NBA next season. He has short arms. He can’t rebound. He can’t guard other centers. He’s a fouling machine. At best, he’s not even a rotation player. If Detroit would be interested in him for some reason, they certainly wouldn’t be willing to take on Brand’s contract as part of the deal.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
why so cranky?
thanks though, that is a better explanation. you expanded on your answer on why YOU THINK it is a bad trade for detroit. personally i don’t really think rip has much left. he’s lost a step and has trouble guarding most SG in the league. I do not agree at all that rip is the best player on detroit, but i guess that is opion. I’ve read that detroit would like to move rip and his contract (although brand’s is certainly worse) and let gordon start at the 2. I do agree though that rip still is a good shooter if somewhat inconsistent (he shot a little over 40% last year). do you think detroit would rather move prince or rip? I think i would rather have smith and his possible potential for 1.4 mil than maxiell at 5 mil and extra year. I think brand could actually play well for the right team and i think detroit has the style of offense he could succeed. maybe the pick and roll with stuckey or prince. I do however after reading your well written explanation for this trade, have to agree detroit would probably not do this trade (only due to brands HUGE contract) but i don’t think it is as ridiculous as you suggest.
Why would we trade kapono back to toronto for reggie evans? are you a communist?
by guitarmouse35 on Jun 1, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love jumping to that conclusion. Well done, mouse.
by Michael Levin on Jun 1, 2010 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions
woops
forgot to logout of my friends’ account. sixer83 is not Jason, that would be me.
by guitarmouse35 on Jun 1, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah really, why would you want Reggie Evans? he is a joke and well I will take the high road and not say what I have said in the past about Evans.
evans
id take evans back for smith or someone like him. Evans is someone they could use offf the bench again. Scrappy, aggressive.
joke my ass brother, he’s a good role player who throws his bodt around, gets rebounds, scores of that, something the sixers need, balls right now. Remember him when he was with us with cheeks?
No – he’s really not – he’s a god awful rebounder
The proudest word in baseball is gamer - Tim McCarver 6/12/2010
by jemagee on Jun 14, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Brand's value is going to go up after this year
He average 13 and 6 despite having EJ as his coach. I expect him to bring his numbers up to 16 and 8 with Collins.
Forgive me father for I am bored
1.
To Miami: Speights, Meeks, Smith
To Philly: Beasley
2.
To Indiana: Willams, Kapono
To Philly: Troy Murphy
3.
To Seattle: Jason Smith, Jodie Meeks, Thaddeus Young, Rodney Carney
To Philly: Cliff Lee
4.
To Golden State: Thaddeus Young, Jodie Meeks,
To Philly: Kelenna Azubuike and C.J Watson
5.
To Golden State: Elton Brand
To Philly: Andris Biedrins and Ronny Turiaf
6.
To Dallas: Elton Brand, Jason Smith, Jodie Meeks
To Philly: Eric Dampier, Matt Carroll, Eduardo Najera
PHI receives: Kevin Durant, SF, OKC
Russell Westbrook, PG, OKC
OKC receives: Elton Brand, PF, Philadelphia
Jrue Holiday, PG, Philadelphia
2nd Overall 2010 Draft Pick, N/A, Philadelphia
ESPN says they’d win one less game and we’d win the same. Nobody wins!
This is the new/current account of RyanGiggs11
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Jun 6, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
To Philadelphia: Mayo, Thabeet, pick #28, Morrow (S&T)
To Memphis: Ellis
To Golden State: Igoudala
Why Philly does it?
-A change of scenery is needed, even if Igoudala is the team’s best player. Philly would attain cap flexibility but also two former lottery picks. A “big name” backcourt of Holiday/Mayo/Turner backcourt would bring much needed hype to a dormant franchise.
Why Memphis?
- Ellis is a player that Memphis has been targeting for a couple years now. Memphis is the closest big city to his hometown of Jackson, MS, so he has many fans there: when the Warriors played at FedEx, many fans were wearing his jersey. The rumored trade proposal (rejected by Golden State) before the trading deadline, was Mayo, Thabeet, and supposedly a late 1st rounder for Ellis.
Why Golden State?
-Igoudala would be a clear upgrade over the inefficient Ellis. He would be able to guard the bigger 2’s and 3’s in the league (which Ellis has struggled to do).
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
This is the most balanced and realistic trade proposal in this thread by leaps and bounds. Memphis clearly had/has an interest in Ellis, and Golden State upgrades w/ Andre. As far as 76ers are concerned, I think we get a fabulous deal. In this scenario, we keep our draft pick and select Evan Turner to play the 3 and replace Andre. I’ve been a big Mayo fan, and he would start at the 2 obviously. Thabeet is a physical specimen and we can groom him to be Sam’s replacement down the road. Morrow would back up Mayo at the 2 and be a strong option off the bench. The #28 pick is gravy to be honest.
1. Jrue, Lou
2. Mayo, Morrow, Meeks
3. Turner, Thad
4. Brand, Speights
5. Sammy, Thabeet
I don’t really see why Memphis does this. Especially giving up both of their last two first rounders for a tweener. Maybe if they got something else to sweeten the pot (i.e. Thad) and didn’t have to trade Thabeet, I could see it working.
by Michael Levin on Jun 6, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I like how it works out for Philly, but I agree that Memphis gets the shaft end. I cant see it happening.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
Whether the trade is fair or not, Memphis is enamored by Monta: so much that they would give up their past two lottery picks for him. They will most likely strike out this off-season (losing Gay and not attracting FA’s), giving them another incentive to acquire Ellis.
"It's like Will Smith, remember the Fresh Prince? Get the ball don't let nobody else shoot? That's kinda what the offense can be sometimes, and they're just standing around waiting for Monta to make a play"
-MT2
by golden_solitude on Jun 6, 2010 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Philadelphia: + #16, Krstic, Collison, Hollins; – #2, Brand
Minnesota: + 2#, Green, DJ White; – 4#, #16, Love, Hollins
OKC: + Brand, 4#, Love; – Green, Krstic, Collison, DJ White
If Philadelphia want to get rid of Brand contract big price need to be paid. To get almost only expiring contracts back for Brand and still to get pick back in the middle of 1st round looks like reasonable offer. That means lot of cap flexibility for Philadelphia in following years.
OKC made their big/final move for PF/C to complete their rotation. Brand contract is huge, but they have several players on rookie contract for 3+ more years (Harden, Ibaka, Maynor, and Cousins) so they could live with it without luxury tax. Also Love instead of Green help them to better balance their team.
Minnesota – it is high price to pay to move up 2 spots, but if they believe that Cousins is too big risk and Turner is future star it is worth of doing it for them. Love is better player than Green and have 1 more year on rookie contract, but Green could be better on his natural SF position than playing undersized PF and it helps them to better balance their roster. Plus they get rid of Hollins and get cheap backup PF in DJ White.
Moving down 14 spots seems like an awful big price to pay to dump a contract. I don’t see how it’s any more enticing than holding onto Brand’s contract and having the #2 pick.
I think Collison might be more overhyped than Thaddeus Young was after his first year
How’s that turned out so far.
I’ll stick with Holiday thank you
by jemagee on Jun 12, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
To keep #2 and Brand is more exciting from fan point of view, but is it the best long term decision? Cap space has big value and its value could be even more valuable after next year. Number of teams that are in position to give assets for nothing just to avoid paying luxury cap could increase.
For example New Orleans this summer: will they give 11# or Collison or Thonrton just to get rid of Mo Pete or Posey contact? I say they will. For example Minnesota could profit from having cap space (instead of having Brand contract, if they want to accept it in direct deal with Philadelphia) in a deal with new Orleans, like: #11 + Mo Pete for #23.
Do you remember Maynor deal? Number of assets Philadelphia could get with Brand contract out of the picture is big.
Of course question is is any of assets teams are ready to give for cap space is close to #2 pick in draft. Probably not. But Brand is due to 35+M in the last 2 years of his contract (and his real value is less then MLE), and some money could be saved next year too. This is lot of money. If you want to save it, big price need to be paid.
It’s a better decision than making crappy ass trades poposed by fans of other teams who think that the sixers are dumb enough to be anally raped by a broom stick just to rid themselves of one bad contract
Guess what – the hornets are cheaper than the sixers
by jemagee on Jun 12, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
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