Sixers' Draft Profiles: Derrick Favors
by Jordan Sams on May 2, 2010 11:29 AM PDT
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PrintThe first two were easy -- John Wall and Evan Turner are almost locks to go one and two. Now it gets dicey. Should Derrick Favors be the third pick, or should it be DeMarcus Cousins? Time to take a look at Mr. Favors, and why he's so awesome.
Number three, Derrick Favors:
College Stats
12.4 points, 8.4 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.9 steals, 2.1 blocks, 2.5 turnovers, 61% FG, 63% FT.
Scouting Reports
His mediocre college numbers shouldn't concern you ...
Before analyzing his strengths and weaknesses, it's very much necessary to take a look at the situation Favors has found himself in at Georgia Tech, a team that struggles badly in the half-court and relies extremely heavily on their defense and offensive rebounding ability to keep them in games. They have little in the ways of perimeter shooting, suffer from very poor spacing on the perimeter, and have given their opponents few reasons not to pack it in defensively and just try and control the paint.
With no playmakers on the roster to create easy looks for him or even consistently make a fundamentally sound post-entry pass, and clearly playing redundantly alongside a big man with almost the same exact strengths and weaknesses as him in Gani Lawal, Favors' weaknesses could not possibly be magnified or exposed any worse than they already have.
Strengths ...
He's incredibly gifted from a physical standpoint, showing a combination of length and athleticism that is simply unparalleled at the college level. He runs the floor like a deer, is outrageously explosive around the rim, and is a fantastic target for entry-passes thanks to his terrific hands and the amazing extension he gets around the basket.
Weaknesses ...
Offensively, Favors is fairly limited as a shot-creator in the half-court, showing raw footwork and little in the ways of a go-to move, struggling to finish with his left hand and being fairly turnover prone when forced to put the ball on the floor.
Jrue Holiday + Andre Iguodala + transition team = perfect fit for Favors.
Favors converts a super efficient 59% of his field goal attempts (ranking him 11th in our database), a testament to his terrific finishing ability. Unfortunately he takes only 7.5 shots per game, as his teammates are often unwilling or unable to get him the ball in a position to score. The more wide open style of the NBA game should benefit him in this regard, both in transition (where he truly excels) and as a pick and roll finisher in the half-court-especially with more talented shot-creating guards alongside him.
Defense.
Defensively, Favors has all the tools needed to become an elite player down the road, even if his lack of experience definitely shows at times, mainly in the form of cheap fouls. His terrific length and timing already make him an imposing shot-blocking threat at the college level, and his excellent lateral quickness allows him to step out onto the perimeter, hedge screens and stay in front of smaller players attacking the basket with the greatest of ease. As he gets stronger, he shouldn't have too much of an issue seeing minutes at the center position from time to time in smaller up-tempo lineups in today's NBA.
Raw, but full of the p-word ...
There are a certain amount of assumptions that are made in projecting the career trajectory of a prospect like Favors-he's a fairly raw player who is still a long ways away from being a finished product, and will have to improve considerably in certain areas. With that said, Favors' terrific intangibles make it quite a bit easier to see him reaching his incredibly high ceiling compared with the likes of a DeMarcus Cousins for example, and it wouldn't be surprising to see him improve rapidly over the next few years.
Whoever drafts him must be patient though, as it's unlikely that he'll be ready to compete for Rookie of the Year honors, and he surely isn't ready to play a major offensive role right away. Players with his natural tools are incredibly hard to come by, though, which is exactly why he won't have to wait very long before hearing his name called on draft night.
Future star?
Favors came into the season ranked as the second best prospect in the country. He still may be. However, his production didn't match his potential until late in the season. Some of that fault has to do with his point guards who rarely got him the ball. Some was a lack of aggressiveness on his part. Regardless, he still stands out as a terrific prospect. He's an Amare Stoudemire/Antonio McDyess type of power forward who, once he develops a more polished offensive game, should be a star. Look for him to go somewhere between 2 and 5.
What would've happened if Favors played with Wall?
Do us all a favor and get out of Georgia Tech. The way his guards have ignored him all year is criminal. After a solid first game, Favors didn't score until the second half against Ohio State. Is he raw? Sure. But if he had a point guard who could get him the ball, he would dominate.
The p-word again ...
Favors has Amare Stoudemire-meets-Al Horford potential. He has been terrific the past eight games of the season, averaging 17 points and nine rebounds per game. He has been much more aggressive on both ends of the floor and has begun to reclaim his place near the top of the draft.
How's the form on his jumper?
As for his jump shot, Favors has a nice looking stroke out to 12 feet or so, but he has not been very good, hitting less than 30% of his jumpers this year. Fortunately, he does not take a lot of jump shots, but at the next level he will need to get better at hitting that shot. I don't see anything in his mechanics or release that looks wrong or broken. His shot looks consistent, with good form and a high release; but it is a bit flat and sometimes he looks rushed. I don't think there's anything there that cannot be fixed with practice and a good shooting coach.
He's Jrue Holiday young.
And, he's still only 18 years old.
Comparisons:
DX - Best case: Antonio McDyess In Prime
Worst case: Chris Wilcox
Chad Ford - Amare Stoudemire
NBADraft.net - Al Horford
YouTube:
My take:
I love Evan Turner, and I love John Wall. There is no doubt in my mind that they are the two best prospects, but D-Favors is probably my favorite prospect of this class. While Wall and Turner would both make the Sixers a ridiculous defensive team on the perimeter, Favors would give the Sixers a nice balance of perimeter defense and post defense. Jrue/Andre on the wings, and Favors/Dalembert in the middle would be tough to score on. Unlike Turner and Wall, Favors probably wouldn't make a huge impact offensively. I'd expect him to have the type of rookie season Jrue had -- terrific defense, insane potential, rookie struggles, but overall a player who the fans love, and could be something special. In case you haven't noticed, I like Favors better than Cousins -- which isn't a forgone conclusion with most people.
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Favors would give the Sixers a nice balance of perimeter defense and post defense. Jrue/Andre on the wings, and Favors/Dalembert in the middle would be tough to score on.
You would bench Brand in favor of Favors or Dalembert? I would consider it but I am not sure the new coach would. If we do draft Favors we need to try and find someway to trade Brand or get him to accept coming off the bench since there probably isn’t any chance of buying him out.
Yes, Brand’s finished, and I’d hope the new coach would realize that. He can provide a scoring punch off the bench, but his rebounding and defense are below average now, and Favors and Dalembert can both run the floor and catch oops much better than Brand.
I wouldn’t mind him coming off the bench, and who cares what he thinks.
Unfortunately, we’re stuck with him until at least the last year of his contract. No one’s trading for him.
A bench of Lou, Kapono, Thad, Brand, Speights could provide a nice complacent to the defensive-first starting lineup. They’d score enough to keep the team in the game while the starters rest. That said, even with Favors and new coach I think we’d be in the 37-42 win range.
Who’d be your other starter since right now the only four I know of is Sammy, Favors, AI9, Jrue. Given our options and not wanting to give up on him yet I say Thad should start and Meeks takes his place on the bench. I don’t think we have room to sign anybody this year unless it is for the minimum.
If you want your starters to be a defense first lineup it wouldn’t make sense to have Kapono in there, I didn’t get to see Meeks play last year so I can’t comment on his D. Another option that we haven’t talked about is Bill Green, yes it isn’t sexy but he would fit better into your plans for the starting lineup if you want Thad coming off the bench.
Jrue, Andre, Favors and Sam could easily cover up Kapono. It’s not that big of deal to have one bad defensive player if the other four are good.
From limited sample size, it appears that Meeks is at least willing to try to D up. I’m also not quite ready to give up on Thad. If we’re covering for one bad defender, I would love to see Thad to get consistent minutes at his natural position with a coach who will invest in teaching him defense and maybe put a boot in his ass to make him rebound.
Playing Brand and Favors in the same starting lineup would be interesting to say in the least
They could theoretically work together, but one is 6’8" and one is 6’9". It doesn’t matter how athletic they are; you just can’t get far with an undersized PF and a normal-sized rookie PF. Brand would work off the bench well, as jsams said though.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
You might hate me for saying this...
Favors is a great fit because, like Jrue, he will let them lose some now and win more later.
Jrue was great this year, but he made mistakes that cost them games. I expect the same out of Favors. While the other top 5 players in this draft all will give the Sixers more immediate production and help them make a playoff push next year.
It would be a bit painful, but ideally they struggle some next year as Jrue, Favors, Speights and Thad continue through growing pains. That way they can get another high pick next summer and be stockpiling talent that could be special in 2-3 years (once the Brand is gone.)
So the target should be to win in 3 years. If Favors/Jrue etc are ready at that point you can turn Brand’s expiring contract into a stud vet. And really, is the playoffs in the next 2 years really that important? If they make it bused on rapid improvement of the young guys then that is great…. but I would be fine with another down season if the payoff is a brighter future.
If we end up in a position to draft Favors, that’s a tough call for me. He’s definitely going to be at least a good player……and maybe very good. With his wingspan and vertical, he might even eventually be equally effective at both PF and C, so I like his versatility. But I’m not as in love with his upside as some……not sure that a big man like Whiteside won’t end up better. I might choose to trade down for Whiteside plus extra value as opposed to drafting Favors if the extra value helps me re-shape the roster.
One other thing I’d like to point out is that Favors fits more what we need now….as he, Brand(assuming he has enough left in the tank to provide strong hustle plays 25 min/night), and Sammy would form a formidable 3 big defensive rotation.
The thing is, I don’t think we should be drafting for the now. I think we should be taking the highest upside players, and also try to grab extra picks in what I consider to be a decently deep draft. Whiteside plus an extra 1st rounder offers more upside to me than Favors. If we draft both Whiteside and say Larry Sanders, I think we might have a better chance of striking gold than just drafting Favors.
If the rumors are true then ‘being forced into the draft because there’s no way he’ll be academically eligible again’ is kind of a red flag, yes
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t understand exactly what the red flags are. And he probably has a poor academic history of some sort considering his age and what you guys are mentioning. But you can’t teach his combination of ability and size. I think he’s 21, which isn’t that bad. He also has a better handle than most NBA centers and has shown flashes that he could also become a decent shooter for a C. There isn’t a center in this draft with a higher ceiling. He’s got to add strength and learn how to play in the NBA, but those red flags better be pretty big ones to pass up on his potential if he falls to the 8-12 range.
per Draftexpress:
"Immature" is the word you hear most often associated with Whiteside both on and off the court, as there will certainly be a large degree of hand-holding and coddling that whichever team drafts him needs to do in order to help him reach his full potential. There are major questions about his work ethic and intensity level, which is a bit concerning considering how far off he currently is from being able to contribute to an NBA team. We also need to keep in mind that despite his freshman status, he’s the same age as many college juniors, turning 21 this upcoming June. This obviously limits his upside to a certain degree.
Despite the numerous red-flags and his clear-cut project status, Whiteside is an extremely interesting prospect thanks to his rare physical tools and super intriguing skill-level. At a certain point in the draft, the reward of picking him definitely outweighs the risk, as we’re obviously dealing with a special talent. NBA teams will need to do quite a bit of research into his background and psychological makeup, and figure out how much physical potential his frame has in terms of being able to add weight. Whiteside is clearly the type of guy that needs to go to the right organization, as he could easily get lost in the shuffle and find himself out of the NBA if he lands in the wrong place.
Because SBNation has a weird posting quirk…if you leave a space between blocks of information it will assume that you want to close your tags…so you either have to eliminate the space or set them both up as block quotes :)
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
It would be great is a line break didn’t close your tags
But i’ve seen sites that are a lot worse (and it would be great if i could alter font size)
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks for the info. I guess if he passes the evaluations, I’d still want him. I wouldn’t draft him 6th, but I maintain my opinion that trading down for extra value is possibly the wisest course in this draft if we pick 6th. There are a few guys in that 8 to 12 range that may be better than the guys who will be drafted 5-7.
For example: Whiteside(if he passes evaluations), Xavier Henry, and maybe even Paul George.
If we get one of them plus an additional first, or a nice young player from another team, then that’s pretty good value for the pick in my opinion.
choosing between Favors and Whiteside is likely a false choice anyway. Favors won’t be available at 6.
Choosing between Favors and Whiteside and favoring Whiteside doesn’t make ratoinal sense based on every most scouting reportsavailable.
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
“Trading down for ‘extra’ value”
This is a top heavy draft – trading down for extra value when you have as many holes as the sixers do is a fools errand unless by trading ‘down’ you get an unrptected lottery pick from a team that’s going to suck in the next year
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Aminu might be the only one left at 6 with nice upside. But I’m not in love with the idea of drafting another hybrid forward. Is he SF or PF? Right now, he may be neither.
Aminu might be the only one left at 6 with nice upside
Sure, in your opinion
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Aminu is like Thad Young in which he doesn't really have a position
Do you guys really want Aminu after already having Thaddeus?
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
It is a top heavy draft. Unfortunately, I see that top ending at 5 players, with a 6th I’m not completely sure of yet.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
better chance to do well at 6 than say 12 and 20 no?
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d take 12 and 20 in this draft instead of number 6. Especially if 12 gets you Henry or Whiteside. I think they are just as nice as NBA prospects based on their talents as anyone else who gets picked 5 thru 10. The 1st 4 to 5 picks are locks in this draft.
After the 5th pick I think there isn’t a big drop off from 6 to 15…no superstars….but a lot of guys that can make a strong contribution on a winner. I think the 5 thru 15 slots are deeper than usual with solid players. Wall, Turner, Favors, and Cousins are near mortal locks to go in the top 5. The 5th guy will probably either be Wesley Johnson or Aminu. I don’t think there is a high liklihood that whoever goes at 6 is either a franchise player or even much better than Xavier Henry….who might drop to 10-12
I’m not debating there’s a talent drop off
I’m debating the constant argument that you can ‘do better’ if you draft later.
The later you draft, the less options there are…and you can’t depend on any player being available if it’s such a weak draft…it’s a fools thought process to me
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Who are the 5 players? Do you think they all have a high chance to be better than average NBA starters? I’m only counting about 2 in that category?
Guys like Whiteside and even Lance Stephenson seem to have an upside chance but a below average probability due to “what’s between the ears issues”. Also regarding Whiteside, it seems to me that he has no chance to become a real C on his first NBA contract, so it would probably make more sense to evaluate him as a PF with some chance of playing C later in his NBA career, should it last that long.
I think Wall, Turner, Cousins, and Favors all have a high chance of being better than average NBA starters. I’m not sold on any of them as star players, though.
I think Xavier Henry has the skills and enough physical gifts that he should be a very nice complementary player on a contender as an NBA swingman.
I think Aminu has some nice upside, and is likely to impress with his athleticism, but you have to project some into the future to decide whether he is a SF or PF….I think he is an eventual PF, but not a real safe pick in the top 5.
Wesley Johnson is in some respects an impressive shooter and a decent athlete at NBA SF….but I think he’ll have more trouble shooting over people’s heads off the dribble in the NBA, and there are better catch and shoot guys later in the draft like Henry or George.
I think i’d pass on Wesley high in the draft, but might live to regret it. His shooting off the dribble in College was pretty impressive….I just think if that’s the best part of his game, then that doesn’t translate that great to the NBA for him. He isn’t 6’9’’. It won’t be as easy to shoot over NBA swing men.
Could you stop answering your own posts EVERY time…it’s kind of irritating.
As for your obsession with Henry – (we get it you think he’s going to be good) – other people with more credibility than you disagree
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Personally...
Xavier Henry reminds me of J.R. Smith without the off-court trouble. A relatively big 2-guard that may be inconsistent, but when he’s “on,” he can shoot his team out of a deficit (on the other hand, when he’s not on, he can shoot them into a deficit). Henry is a better defender than J.R., but so are most NBA players.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
My 2 count was Wall and Favors. Everyone says Turner is the consensus number 2, but I don’t see enough athleticism to claim that he will probably be a better than average NBA starter at any particular position. He’s a bit like Iguodala with better ball handling and intangibles but less overall athleticism.
This draft is a bit deeper than you think
Sure, there’s only two franchise players, but there’s a good deal of role players. Cole Aldrich, for all his Greg Ostertag comparisons, will be a decent starting center in this league for 10+ years. Xavier Henry would work out great as the 3rd option on a playoff team. James Anderson will be a solid defender in the pros for sure. Donatas Montiejunas is a skinnier Andrea Bargnani (or Lafrentz in his prime), and before you laugh, you gotta realize that that’s decent value for a late lottery pick.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
"He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"Keep your head up and don't let anything get to you." - Dante Bichette Jr.
#3 + #6 + #15 + #1 = QPU #25, and no, it's not because of Anthony Carter
Doesn’t Cousins have similar red flags?
And the whole “he has no upside because he’s 21” is dumb, in my opinion.
?
he’s the same age as many college juniors, turning 21 this upcoming June. This obviously limits his upside to a certain degree.
A guy who is completely raw and not NBA ready at 21 is a bigger concern than someone like that at age 19. What was he doing these past 2 years?
While Cousins is a poor comparison IMO because he is 19 and immensely talented and will be a front runner for ROY. Cousins has skill to go with his size and strength. While Whiteside is 21 and has athletic gifts but no skills.
Whietside is sort of like Sam, but without the excuse of coming from Haiti to explain how raw he is.
He’s a couple years behind, but that doesn’t affect his upside IMO. He’ll just reach it a little late.
I wasn’t trying to compare the two, just asking if Cousins has similar attitude, work ethic red flags — which I think he does, but maybe not to the same degree.
Whiteside has some skills my man. Ask D-Bod.
I don’t think I question Cousins work ethic, or his intensity. Both have red flags, but I think they’re different. I’ll side towards a guy with questionable maturity/trouble handling his emotions over a guy with work ethic/intensity concerns with an over-inflated sense of self.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
DOesn’t cousins just ‘know’ more basketball than whiteside – like fundamental type stuff?
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you honestly believe that Whiteside and Cousins have equal talent levels and skill sets?
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe, but I think it’s a stretch to be able to say that definitively. Playing at that small of a school may have fueled Whiteside’s ego a bit.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
From what I saw of the highlights he is no where near as raw a player as Sammy was at that age. His major weakness is his lack of strength in the post. But he already has more individual skills in every facet of the game than Sammy. And he has a frame that looks like it can still add some strength.
From what I saw of the highlights
You don’t think Sammy had some great college highlights given his amazing athleticism?
Highlights are just that. While Cousins had one of the most productive freshman seasons for a center in recent college basketball history- especially when you factor in his per minute productivity.
Again, I’m much more comfortable talking about a highly talented and productive player with red flags then a raw athlete who is not NBA ready and has red flags.
Red flags mean you may not tap into your potential. This is less of a concern if you are already good enough to be an impact player in the NBA.
One guy is ready to be a starting center in the NBA right now. the other is a few years away- and who knows if he has the make-up to get there.
I wouldn’t take Whiteside over Cousins…..or even Favors for some of the reasons you mentioned. But the Sammy comparison is a bit harsh. This guy has way more upside than Sammy every dreamed of….he’s so much more coordinated on both ends of the floor. I mentioned the highlights because some of them show him doing more than just dunking….for instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl6q49ruwS4
Oh – you’re right – a youtbue highlight – strong scouting tool.
by jemagee on May 4, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’ve watched his highlights. But Sam makes some highlight passes and hits jumpers.
Its not the ability to do something, but whether he does these things at the right time and consistently. That is what highlights don’t show you, and what the red flags worry me. Red flags about character and dedication imply he may lack good judgment on the floor,
Sam with a better makeup would be a perennial All Star. His highlight reel probably is a match for just about anyone. But he displays poor judgment, so you don’t want him trying highlight passes, complicated moves or jumpers. And I’m afraid Whiteside could have the same issues (for not exactly the same reasons.)
Of course, I don’t know the guy. It could be it all clicks for him and he reaches his ceiling. But to imply his ceiling was any higher than Sam’s is incorrect IMO.
here’s why I say Whiteside has more upside than Sammy, and this is mostly on a physical basis, not mental for either of them on this comparison:
Whiteside has an advantage over Sammy physically in these areas IMO:
1)better lateral agility, quickness
2)better coordination on both ends
3)better timing on shot blocking
4)quicker leap….prob not higher though…..doesn’t have to gather himself much to get off floor quickly…..and quicker on the second leap/putbacks
5)has a better frame than Sammy for adding strength….Sammy is kind of like gumby
All that being said, Whiteside could be a bust, but I’d be shocked if he lasted as late in the draft as Sammy did largely for the reasons I mentioned.
Cousins has some red flags. But he might be too good(and did it for Kentucky) to drop outside of the top 5 picks unless he eats babies or is actually doctor evil in disguise.
One can argue that Whiteside has more upside(especially as a shot blocker). But Cousins already is too good to pass up. He doesn’t need to add much strength/size to bang in the post. He already has it.
It’s not close. Cousins >>>> Whiteside.
by Michael Levin on May 3, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
this wannabe disagrees with you
does the gm stand for george michael?
by jemagee on May 3, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
little funny, but you’ve been putting words in my mouth because you disagree. I would not take Whiteside ahead of Cousins. I do think that Whiteside has more upside defensively at center than Cousins. Offensively I give the nod to Cousins. And in terms of who is more ready to make an impact as a rookie(which will make him tantalizing in trade scenarios) Cousins is the clear winner because he does not have to add much strength. He can already bang in the post pretty well.
For Sixers, it should be:
Monroe
Whiteside
Aldrich
Udoh
by Michael Levin on May 4, 2010 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions
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