Hornets trade proposal
by jdpourciau on May 19, 2010 10:10 PM PDT
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Congrats on the lottery sixers fans. Here's my proposal. I believe that due to the lack of point guards in this draft, the Hornets can really sell high on Darren Collison. Assuming that we can trade him to the Pacers for the10th pick here is my proposal:
10, 11, Peja and MoPete for Iggy, Thad, and Dalembert. Hornets become a complete track team and the sixers cut long term cap space and get two lotto picks to build around holiday and turner. I think Paul George is a perfect fit with this team although the 11 may be a bit high for him. There should still be alot of young bigs available, and with the oncoming youth movement you guys buy some time for Udoh or Whiteside to bulk up. Thoughts?
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Darren Collison is an animal
But this just seems like a pipe dream. It seems completely unrealistic that anything like this could happen. Not sure who the Sixers would want with both the 10th and 11th picks, or why. You could argue that they have enough talent on the floor to match whatever they could get there, but that Turner would be a huge upgrade. He would be the star they thought they bought. You could also argue that to even think that that many strings could be pulled on a draft day trade is so difficult that no one has been able to pull it off (trading a current player for a pick, then packaging 2 picks for another pick). No that I know of anyway.
There are so many things wrong with this proposal. I don’t know where to start.
First of all, did you even check to see if this trade would work out mathematically?
Even if it does…
1. What I see out of this is New Orleans trying to unload Peja’s enormous contract. We don’t want him, no other team wants him, and Iguodala brings a lot more to the table than just packaging him away as a salary dump.
2.
Yes, Peja’s contract expires after this year, but so does dalembert’s. Our team still needs a center at the end of the day and re-signing him isn’t out of the question. Also, we are supposed to give up Iguodala in the process, without first seeing if he’ll work well with Turner and Holiday?
3. When we bring Turner here, he will be able to play immediately as opposed to two low-lottery prospects.
This team needs to see what it has with Turner at the helm alongside it’s current roster.
4. Jumping the gun and making some silly trade (not just the one you proposed) would be ludicrous.
I'm pretty sure
That wouldn’t work under the cap. Iggy + Daly + Thad make like 23+ million — Peja + MoPete make under 20 mill.
I wouldn’t, especially if we get Turner and he and Andre work well together. Thad basically becomes a bench player and he’s not gonna want to sign a new contract to be a 6th man when he could enter free agency and start fresh somewhere else.
That being said, he’s about to have his 4th coach in 4 years so he’s certainly been done a disservice in that respect. If he can bounce back this year, I think we’ll have a good problem on our hands.
by Michael Levin on May 20, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Thaddeus Youngs trade value probably has never been lower – trading him this off season is the ideal example of ‘selling low’ – you don’t trade him until you see if he improves under collins…but dont’ over react to play either – it’s contract year :)
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Jordan – please put this in the nomination bank
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 7:53 AM PDT reply actions
Hey Sixers fans
would you trade the #2 pick and Jrue Holiday for chris paul?
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:59 AM PDT reply actions
Doesn’t work out salary wise. Doesn’t improve the SG/SF situation, nor the PF situation (SG being Iggy being played out of position, Thad being blocked by Iggy with Turner coming – SF – and Brand/Speights at PF).
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on May 20, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think that would ever happen anyway.
Collison filled in really well for Paul when Paul was hurt, so the Hornets have a viable option at PG if CP3 leaves town. They wouldn’t be asking for Holliday in the first place. It would have to be some kind of 3 team trade for us to gain Paul and lose Holliday at the same time.
Where to begin...
First of all the trade really isn’t all that complicated, just 2 steps, trade a player for a pick and then package that pick with another one for some other players. Maybe including Thad was a little greedy, but I just wanted to see where people stood on him. Let’s assume that we just get Iggy and Dalembert in the trade.
If oyu are a lotto team like Indy, in need of a point guard, who do you draft? I like Avery Bradley alot but he’s a risk at the pg spot. Collison has proven he can play in the league.
Also this isn’t just a salary dump, you get two lotto picks. No one is pretending that Peja’s value is anything more than expiring contract.
As for Dalembert, if Sammy was a long-term answer for the sixers then he would be playing starter’s minutes and he isn’t. Do you think he will re-sign with the team when his main reason for griping was that he wasn’t getting enough minutes and there are teams out there willing to give him the playing time? I don’t think so.
Peja makes 14 next year and Mo makes six, so the contracts work.
As for Turner and Iggy working together, I just don’t see it. Both like the ball in their hands, neither can space the floor for the other. Having two wings that can’t shoot kills your floor spacing and prevents the kind of drives that both Iggy and Turner would want to make.
Keeping Iggy doesn’t make any sense. Any team capable of running a decent zone d will kill you in the half court. He isn’t a bad player, but he, like Turner needs floor space to operate.
Why would the sixers be in win now mode anyway? It makes no sense. Getting the high pick allows you to blow things up and start fresh with the considerable young talent that the team has. The only bad contract left would be brand. Keeping Iggy chains you to the same anemic half court offense that hasn’t been working for the kast 3 years.
Laslty, no way on the #2 and Jrue for CP. We already have a backup point and although I would never trade Paul, any realistic tade for him would have to include immediate cap savings, and young players at actual areas of need.
The only ludicrous option for the Sixers is to stand pat and hope that the addition of another wing who can’t shoot the three will fix their problems.
Jrue Holiday is not a back up point – and chris paul’s career is being wasted – and very soon he’ll demand being traded.
I don’t think it’s the complicatedness of your trade – i think it’s the fact that it’s horrible and offensive and over vlaues hornets players and unde values sixers players.
You just implied Jrue HOliday is back up but for some reason dareen collison is already a star even though they’ve both only played one nba season.
Fans of other teams without perspective are why i hate fantasy trades
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
The fact that the sixers are not in a win-now mode is precisely the reason why we have the luxury to at least see if Turner and Iguodala would work. What’s better is that Turner is able to start now, so this upcoming season the team will be able to evaluate the situation. If you package away Iguodala for two low-lottery picks, that doesn’t guarantee anything. It’s like when we packaged away our number two pick for Tim Thomas and three other scrubs.
You’re stating only opinion. As a fan it’s not your place to determine what will and what won’t work out, despite how much sense you claim it makes. As a hornets fan, I’m not sure how many sixers games you were able to see, but Iguodala does not have to play a ball-dominate style. He’s quite a versatile player and you could see that in his first few seasons of play.
As for Dalembert getting minutes, his minutes correlates with his attitude and motivation. The more effort he contributes to the team, the more he plays. With a level-headed coach in charge of the team, he will allow for that to happen. As far as his contract is concerned, no team in the league will offer him what he’s making now. He most likely aware he will have to settle for less. It’s still too early to say what is going to happen in regards to his future.
That's a fair argument
Iggy is very versatile and he doesn’t have to have the ball in his hands at all times. He’s a team player, and he has played well with high usage pg’s. But I just don’t see where you are going to get any floor spacing for either one of those guys.
Of course, it is just my opinion. As a fan it is my place to speculate. That’s the whole point of sports blogs right? :)
As for Sammy, it isn’t just money. I really think there are teams that would give him more minutes than the sixers, as they are currently contructed, ever will. That’s the reason why I don’t think he stays. I agree that he won’t get the same kind of money in his new contract.
It never seemed to me that the sixers were ever intent on keeping him long-term. If you think that Sammy, has a chance of becoming the sixers long term answer at center then it’s a different story.
Um wow...overreact much?
Backup point was a typo meant to say backup plan, not a reason for you to go all postal. I meant if we traded CP, then we already have a backup plan. We wouldn’t try and get a point guard in any trade that involved Paul. Holliday really started to shine last year, and I think he was a really solid pickup for you guys. I also think we would have been in high demand had you gotten the first pick instead of the second, and would have been worth a lottery pick.
My belief in Collison’s value has at least as much to do with the lack of point guards in this draft as it does with his play last year. If Dru was being drafted this year I think he is easily a top 10 pick for the exact same reason.
We might disagree over value, but do you really think getting 2 lotto picks and an expiring for Iggy and Dalembert is a horrible over value? Richard Jefferson got traded for expirings, as did VC, with the added bonus of Courtney Lee. What do you think Iggy’s value is?
Obviously I think Iggy and Dalembert are good players or I wouldn’t want to trade for them. Have I ever tried to pretend that there was any value in the contracts that you are getting back besides the fact that htey are expiring?
The reason you trade Iggy has nothing to do with his value and everything to do with his fit. I just don’t think he and Turner will fit together.
Look, I like Philly. They are my adopted team, since I live in the area now. I know I’m not the only person who follows the sixers who believes that they should blow it up and start fresh with their young talent.
Many people follow the sixers also have common sense – and the difference between plan and point isn’t just a typo when you’re actually talking about POINT GUARDS
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, it seems like you are intent on having your feelings hurt. I have reason to trash talk the sixers, but I’m also not going to waste time trying to make you feel better. I made a typo, you overreacted.
So I will just return to the actual point of this whole idea. Remind me again, what exactly sounds like a rip-off about Iggy and Dalembert for 2 lotto picks and expirings?
If the issue is that you believe that Iggy and Turner can coexist.
As it relates to the CP trade, point guard is the only position at which we have solid depth, and if we trade Paul, we will really need to cut cap, because he is our biggest draw and ticket sales will take a hit.
Explain your argument
Or I guess you could just attack me or the hornets some more, your choice.
If the issue is that you believe that Iggy and Turner can coexist.
That’s a part of it. Why not see if it’s possible before we dump a player for less than he’s worth?
it doesn’t matter how many times that will be said in the coming weeks, we’ll still get plenty of ridiculous trade offers.
But at least now they’ll all be in one place or magically vanish
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure why my feelings are hurt because you used the wrojng word and then try to cover it up with a typo
your trade is asinine
Most people have said so
Guess what
You don’t know that evan turner and andre iguodala can’t coexist
No one does
Know why?
Cause it hasn’t been tried yet?
Now return to your franchise whose best move would be to trade chris paul as opposed to wasting the rest of his career
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re right, I don’t know that Turner and Iggy won’t work together. You never KNOW how any trade or move works until it is made. I don’t KNOW that playing Lou Will at the 5 won’t work, but I have a pretty good idea that it isn’t a good option.
“You don’t know” is a pretty crappy argument.
I can’t recall any decent offense that didn’t have at least one floor spacer on the wing. Dru’s improvement from there helps alot but still. When CP first got to L, we had some serious trouble on offense because teams could just sit in a zone and watch Desmond Mason and Devin Brown throw up crap shots from wide open passes. It wasn’t until Mo-pete and Peja were spreading the floor that we became any good on offense. As a general rule Ithink you need two 3 point shooters on the floor in order to ensure good spacing and ball movement.
Maybe this team just wins with defense, and running, maybe Dru is ready to become a fast break guard… weirder things have happened.
As far as who you would pick, I think Orton and Paul George would compliment Turner, Dru, and Thad well, although it would force Thad to play the 4. I think George is gonna be a gamer. He’s athletic and can shoot (although his off the dribble game is awful unlike Turner), and I think he’s the perfect compliment to Turner, although 11 might be a little hi.
As I’ve already said, with all of the new young talent that the sixers have, I just think it makes sense to start fresh ala OKC. According to Shamsports you’d only have 27 locked up in salary in 2011/2012 with that move.
Having said all of that, it seems like this move is unpopular, but I give up. Just for argument’s sake, what would it take for any team to get Iggy for fair value in your opinion?
I’m not going to respond to cp comments.
“You don’t know” isn’t a pretty crappy argument unless of course yo uare employed by the NBA and renowned for your knowledge of basketball (which I’m pretty sure you aren’t – or you wouldn’t be posting on a blog)
Your analogy to Louis Williams is invalid and silly at this time but if it’s what you want to use that’s fine.
But what you have demonstrated is you know nothing about Andre Iguodala and his game and the flexibility of his game and that asking him to be a primary scorer was one of the dumbest fucking things the sixers ever did – he never has been the #1 scoerer on a team until recently (go back, and look, college, high school, I’ll wait)
For some reason people seem to think Andre Iguodala is a selfish ball hog and has always been that – and it’s not true…so you’re analogy to louis williams is just like the original trade – it’s bs
If it doesn’t work, then you move Iguodala, fine, but you don’t trade him for pennies on the dollar because you are too scared to find out if it does work and you’re a desperate seller and everyone knows it.
But then again, what the hell do I know, I’ve only watched Andre Iguodala for his entire career
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes it’s obvious that I don’t know anything about Iggy’s game because I disagree with you. Again, speculation is the entire point of posting on a sports blog. The fact that my opinion doesn’t matter is entirely irrelevant to the validity of the opinion since none of our opinions matter. That’s why we are posting them on a blog as a means of recreation versus getting paid to give them. The concept of the whole I disagree with you therefore I am an idiot/ completely ignorant of the sixers makes you sound like a child.
Of course the Lou Will analagy is silly, that’s the point. Silly, like attributing other people’s comments to me in order to make a point. I called Iggy ball-dominant, not selfish or a ball-hog, and there’s a big difference between those terms. Yes Iggy could do well in a complimentary role on offense, but a substnatial part of his half-court offense is off the dribble.
But Iggy not fitting with Turner has nothing to do with him not being able to be a complimentary player, and everything to do with him not being able to shoot the ball. Iggy as a third option on a good team probably returns to being a high efficiency player. But that again would require floor spacing.
With him and Turner on the same team, other teams will are just going to use lots of zone defenses and most teams will sag a bit off of the wings inviting them to shoot the 3. That’s going to clog the lanes for Turner or Iggy to either drive or cut to the basket and it will end in low percentage contested j’s.
Lastly, I really don’t see how two lottery picks and an expiring is pennies on the dollar. You might believe that it is two low a price, but it isn’t highway robbery. We can agree that Iggy isn’t a first option guy. He’s a premier wing defender with good ball handling and passing skills for his size, who can score in the open court and off of the dribble when given the room to operate.
Off of the top of my head, the best available examples of similar players who were traded are Richard Jefferson, Caron Butler, Stephen Jackson and Vince Carter. The Nets, Milwakee, Warriors, and the Wizards were all in a different kind of situation, but this trade is alot better than anything that those teams received in return.
Also I think some of the best value picks at the 10, and 11 spot are kids who might need some time to develop (Henry, Orton, Whiteside, George) and blowing things up affords them some time to develop without the pressure of having to win now.
Again, I think this team would do well to follow the OKC/ Portland route. We disagree, but that doesn’t make me a moron.
trade proposal
Yes,, Yes,, and yes,, gimmy,, gimmy, gimmy,, With the 10th +11th picks we could really begin to rebuild this mess. Peja for his shootin touch, Mo pete for the same. Both would add SOME leadership to this rudderless ship. Plus now that you have taken Thad out of the equation I can’t wait to do it. Give me Ekpe Udoh and Hassan Whiteside with those picks and lets play ball. Plus we just hired Doug Collins the serious teacher and would have the basis for a young team into the foreseeable future. Lets see, Holiday, Turner,
Peja, Brand and Udoh/Whiteside. Bench: Willie G, Lou Will, Mo Pete, Thad, Marress, Udoh/Whiteside, J Smith ,J Kapono. I would go to war with that anyday.
Trade Proposal
well ??? What do you guys think ?
bourn
Have you watched the sixers lately ??? These guys left the battlefield with their tails between their legs. They deserted and would be shot if this was actually war.
And how long must I endure the sight of Iggie hoisting up bricks.
2 young big men to replace “Dalembum” and Thad and Peja to replace "brickadala.
How could this be worse than what we have spent the last year watching?
What’s funny is how easy it is to tell when philly.com posters wander over to this site. They don’t know how to hit the “reply” when responding to someone else’s comment.
they also use those dumb ass nicknames for dre and sam
by killacaravagio on May 22, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
They just keep coming out of the wood work don’t they
If you have ever agreed with Howard Eskin inyour life – go away
by jemagee on May 21, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Was that an answer.
WAS that an answer to my question ?
Deal will never happen but if it could I would do it in an instant
also "pet" names are for couples
Plus "pet names are used between people in relationships.
this is a mans website, let the women sleep. Bet that you got that from watching the women’s channel.
So not only are you frequently incorrect and deluded, you’re also sexist and ignorant. Needless to say, first impressions aren’t your strong suit.
by Michael Levin on May 20, 2010 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
sticks and stones
Ok, Internet tough guy,, incorrect about what ?? Ignorant ? You have yet to discuss anything factual,, just offended because I used descriptive terms. There is nothing sexist about saying that “pet” names are what couples use. It is simply not a term that I would use in discussing anything having to do with men. If you must know, I have nothing against guys (?) like you who enjoy watching the womens channel. How is Rue Paul doing ?
“this is a mans website, let the women sleep. Bet that you got that from watching the women’s channel.”
That isn’t a sexist comment?
Speaking along the lines of discussing things that are factual, you made those comments; that is a fact. Those comments are ignorant and sexist. Most people who possess a functioning cerebral cortex would agree with what I said.
I'm not sure I'd trade Collison for the #10.
The first problem with the trade offer is that the #10 and #11 picks in this draft aren’t that strong. I doubt Paul George will be as good as Iggy and who knows about the project bigs available at that spot. In fact, I’m not sure those guys are as good as Collison.
Having the Sixers then also throw in Thad Young and Sam Dalembert just makes matters worse. The Sixers would be dumping two of their best trade assets (Iggy and Sam’s expiring deal) and a talent young player for two question marks (and would still be stuck with Brand’s contract.)
The deal that I think would be more interesting is something starting with Iggy/#2 for CP3/#11. Not sure what else it would take (the Sixers could be the ones to deal for Indiana’s #10 since Jrue would be the best PG available there in this draft.)
Even if that’s all NO got, they’d have: Collison, Thornton, Iggy, Favors/Cousins, Okafor.
The Sixers have CP3, Xavier Henry, Thad, Brand, Speights.
Splice - Not recommended @ www.soulhonky.com
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