Stefanski on trading the pick
by Derek Bodner on May 19, 2010 6:30 AM PDT
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PrintThe word circulating around the internet this morning is that Ed Stefanski may be entertaining the idea of trading the 2nd pick in the draft. This rumor isn't without merit, as Ed Stefanski did mention the possibility, but after going back and listening to the audio we captured from last night, I believe this may be a slight overreaction. I think Stefanski was trying to convey that they would do their due diligence and entertain all possibilities, not that they're intent on trading the pick.
First, Stefanski's quote to fuel the speculation:
"If the first pick, everyone's saying is John Wall, then we have the next we can take anybody we want. We can entertain offers from a lot of people, so this is important for us. And we needed something positive after the year we just went through."
A few additional quotes and my reaction after the jump.
On the surface, that quote is certainly capable of generating headlines. It's the quotes that followed just a few minutes after that one that ease my fear, at least a little.
"I'm looking up on that stage and I see that we have a 19 year old point guard in Jrue Holiday who can flat out play, and now we're going to match that up with a #2 pick in the draft and the other pieces we have with the 76ers, we feel confident that we'll turn this around quickly."
Then when asked just a few seconds later on what this meant to the franchise, Stefanski reiterated how important adding the second overall pick would be to the team.
"When you have a point guard like Jrue Holiday who's really coming on and is only 19 years old, now you add another young player with him, and the players we have like Iguodala and Brand, we're excited. We felt we were better than our record showed last year and now we have to prove it on the court."
That's the thing with the #2 pick, which should be Evan Turner. If you're sitting there at #6 and looking at Al-Farouq Aminu, the argument can be made that Stefanski needs to trade the pick for a veteran who can play immediately, and potentially save Stefanski's job. Now that you're in a position to draft Turner, there's no need to sacrifice the future for immediate dividends. Turner is likely the guy most ready to step in and player a major role, and he does so at a position of need.
Stefanski needs to step away and not over-think this. The Sixers are extremely lucky, and he's walked into a situation that very well may lead to a drastic increase in wins next year, just based off the addition of the #2 pick and a new coach. Don't try to make this decision hard.
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I will be extremely ticked off if we do not draft Turner.
I think the risk of Ed trading down and failing holds more weight than him staying at 2, picking Turner and failing.
People over reacting? I’m shocked…are you telling me all the made up t’wolves rumors by fans that people are taking seriously aren’t true either?
NO PICK is untradeable…if the lakers call the wiz and offer bynum and bryant for arenas and #1 (or whatever) do the wiz say ‘god no why would we do that?’. A GM’s job is to listen and decide what’s better.
Radio and fans will blow it out of proportion cause radio (and media) need an audience and too many fans think that if they suggest a really silly trade enough that it will be taken seriously by someone
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 6:44 AM PDT reply actions
You know why I love ESPN
Because they think more people would care about the Florida Marlins nonsense than the NBA draft lottery :)
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 6:52 AM PDT reply actions
I’m not saying we shouldn’t draft Turner. But I disagree with the notion that he is the most ready to step in and make a big impact for the Sixers. Turner makes his living putting the ball on the floor and creating offense. And he was just given the ball and allowed totally free reign to dribble around. With Jrue and Iggy on the team, Turner can’t do that all game long. He’s going to have to improve his off the ball scoring. Currently, multiple swing men in the draft look like they are more natural as off the ball scorers. We already know Iggy is not an off the ball scorer. There may not be enough ball to go around for the three of them.
Turner probably should be the draft pick simply because he might be the most likely guy to eventually be good enough to be a go-to guy down the road,. But initially, I think Cousins is going to have the easiest transition to the NBA of the top 4, and also would make the biggest initial impact for the Sixers(provided he has his head on reasonably straight)..
Another thought on the pick….will guys like Bosh suddenly want to come here in a sign and trade? If you can play with Iggy, Jrue, and the 2nd overall pick, that should make the Sixers one of the top 2 teams in the East with Bosh and a good coach…..top 4 with a mediocre one.
I said most likely to contribute, not most likely to score. I believe Turner will have a much larger impact on wins/losses next year than Cousins. Until Cousins gets the feel for passing out of the double teams (which he’ll see a lot of in the NBA) and defending the pick and roll (which they were able to hide him at in college), his impacting is going to be less than his numbers.
Iguodala was fairly efficient off the ball last year, actually. It’s Iguodala and Jrue who need to improve their off the ball scoring moreso than Turner, who IMO is the focal point of the team in the half-court from this day forward.
And, if it doesn’t work out, I still take the best available player and build my team around that rather than taking a better fit now and trying to win 45 games.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on May 19, 2010 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions
You can’t contribute if you don’t score man – i mean come on – the game isn’t won or loss on rebounds – it’s who ever scores the most points that wins…DUH :)
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions
ever read this michael lewis article?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print
Yes, I read it long ago…and was making a joke to derek who got it :)
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
In the open court at least, Cousins should quickly be one of the better bigs in the NBA as a passer and ball handler.
He does need to improve his passing out of the post. But I think that will be easier for him in the NBA than in College. It’s a more wide open game with less zone. Cousins should average a double double for the Sixers in year one shooting strong percentages….and gives Iggy a finisher he needs to chuck the ball to.
I’m sorry, but I can’t imagine Iggy as an off the ball scorer. It’s just not possible……not in a remotely normal NBA offense. He had a bunch off wide open 3 pointers early in the games playing off the ball with Iverson. But that was because the defense chose to leave him open while AI dribbled around. You don’t want Iggy as a high volume catch and shoot 3 point shooter…..it’s not good for the w/l column.
And lastly it is unlikely that Turner takes over on day 1 when Iggy and Jrue are likely way ahead of him in the department of creating offense in the half court in the NBA. Jrue developed unusually rapidly, and Iggy is way ahead of Turner as a polished offensive player in the NBA at this point. Turner may take over eventually, but you may lose the locker room if he is given the ball with free reign on day one. There likely will be a few growing pains.
If Turner gets picked, I think the plan should be to let him be a suped up version of Willie Green in the 1st quarter. In the second quarter(when Iggy is on the bench) you then give Turner the ball (and tell Lou he is no longer a point guard) while Turner learns how to create offense in the NBA.
Who said anything about Iguodala being a high volume catch and shoot scorer? I just want him to be efficient enough to keep defenses somewhat honest. In my mind, iguodala’s now a role player in the half court offensively.
Derek Bodner
LibertyBallers || @derekbodner || derek.bodner@draftexpress.com
by Derek Bodner on May 19, 2010 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t see Iggy as a role player in the half court offense. If Iggy has a pure finisher he can get the ball to(especially on the perimeter but also in the paint) then Iggy should put up 18 to 20 and 6 shooting respectable overall percentages as the team’s second leading scorer.
That is Iggy’s ideal role. If he isn’t playing that role, then he is not nearly worth the contract and has to be traded before his value plummets.
not plain and simple.
Iggy is not pippen on the defensive end….not even close.
And while Iggy in some ways can put up more impressive numbers than pippen, he is not as easy as pippen to fit on a contender because Iggy isn’t the pure point forward that pippen was in the half court.
Iggy needs to free lance a lot with the ball in his hands. Yet he needs a true point in the half court to help him with the ball handling…yet he also needs someone else to lead the team in scoring.
Finding the right fit next to Iggy in order to build a contender is possible, but it isn’t as simple as finding someone else to lead the scoring. What matters most is how that player leads the team in scoring. If it is someone that has to have the ball in their hands to be effective then, Iggy has to go in a trade before it is too late.
If you draft Turner and trade for Bosh then it would work because
1)Bosh would lead the team in scoring while complementing Iggy’s half court game.
2)Iggy would be allowed to be himself offensively in the half court
3)Turner would do the little things that helped the team win and be the 3rd leading scorer.
If it turned out that Turner was head and shoulders above Iggy creating offense, then Iggy would still have to be traded even with Bosh on the team, so that Turner could play his natural role, and Iggy could do it somewhere else.
I agree with your points. I was just stating the fact that he needs a scorer to play off of. Best example in modern play I could think of was Jordan/Pippen.
The Bosh idea works. I personally like to pick Cousins if we were able to get Bosh, that paint duo would be amazing but Turner would play better.
If I find out before draft day that I can get Bosh, I probably draft Turner.
If I find out Bosh won’t come regardless, I either:
1) trade down with an overly eager team in a highly lopsided trade
or
2) draft Turner
or
3) maybe trade down for Cousins or Favors(plus something extra) if I fall in love with one of them in pre-draft workouts.
I probably wouldn’t trade Iggy the moment we draft Turner(unless there was a draft day trade too good to pass up), but I would expect Iggy might need to be traded down the line and plan accordingly so that we don’t look to move him while his value is at a low point.
Ed if you trade the pick to try to get someone else, thinking that it will somehow save your job we will all come with torches and pitchforks and take you our ourselves.
Now I want the draft to just happen so I don’t need to read this crap.
Yes, holding the #2 is difficult because of our needs. If Cousins wasn’t lazy I’d take him #2 in a heartbeat and no second thoughts needed, but we need to get the best value out of this and Turner is the one. No way hes going to be worst then our last #2 pick (Keith Van Horn)
The only way I would consider trading
Is if Minnesota were to come in hard after Turner and offer us the #4 and a player (Jefferson? They might want to get rid of him) or future picks for the #2. If you can improve your team like that and still end up with either Favors/Cousins or Johnson, I’d be ok with that.
I’m not as high on Jefferson as most. But Cousins plus an extra unprotected pick from Minnesota(should be a good pick) would make me think hard about it.
Ya, Wolves were already saying if they got #1 they were picking Turner. What about Brewer and #4 for our #2?
Then the wolves are stupid
Did the wolves say that or did the FANS say that – cause that’s a huge difference
Brewer and #4 for #2?
Good god – i just vomited again
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
ESPN reported last night that out of their camp if they ended with #1 because of their Rubio/Flynn situation that they were going to pick Turner if they got the pick. They really like him and it was even stated that Turner knew the case already.
Why
must you bring up that pain again?! Getting Adrian at 7 was karma for that.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Just wait until Favre retires and you have no QB cause your gm was so afraid of ‘offending’ FAVRE he passed on a clausen in the past draft
Dumbest move of the draft in my opinion
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Wolves fan here
Most of the Wolves fans are high on Wall AND Turner simply because we need a lead dog. How would you guys feel about this trade – Big Al and #4 for Brand and #2? Al’s signed to a pretty reasonable contract and his numbers were limited a bit last year from his recovery from knee surgery. He’s still a horse down low, though, and will be a 20-10 guy again next year.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I think so
Al is actually better as a PF, and I think Cousins is athletic enough and has a high enough bball IQ to play C next to him. Rambis’ whatever you want to call it offense was tough on Al last year, but it should benefit him going forward because he’s gotten better at moving without the ball, passing, etc. Also, what better low post tutor could you find for a young Cousins?
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
And Wall and Holiday wouldn’t work tobether either right? Who cares if you try it first.
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wall and Holiday are a much better combo than Cousins and Jefferson. It’s obvious.
Jefferson has the same strengths and weaknesses as Cousins in the half court offense, except he is not as good as Cousins.
I don’t see how they make each other better on either end of the floor.
Even though Wall and Holiday might not be a perfect fit, they should at least be able to play off of each other effectively on both ends for at least a portion of each game. Wall and Holiday have different strengths and weaknesses on both ends.
Cousins is a more talented version of Jefferson that can run and contribute in the open court.
Wall and Holiday are a much better combo than Cousins and Jefferson. It’s obvious.
Whether or not it’s true, it’s not ‘obvious’ until you try it and see how they work together…
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions
not true. Any GM worth a grain of salt should be able to see that certain combinations are not ideal.
I don’t have to see them together to know it is a foolish pairing.
One is a half court player
One is a full court player
Neither are ideal help defenders
They are both most impressive with the ball in their hands in the low post with a back to the basket.
They don’t fit.
That’s never going to happen. Kahn has too much invested in the kid at this point.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Aside from ‘saving face’ he has nothing invested in him – hasn’t paid him a god damn dime – sure his career is tied up in him – but the fact that they would pass on wall at #1 because of rubio (and flynn) shows that he’s probably over matched anyway…
Ricky Rubio may play in the NBA but i’m betting he’s delaying it as long as possible cause he doesn’t want to go to minnesota – cause i’ve spent winters in the midwest – it’s witch’s tit cold for six months
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I like love better than Jefferson.
But no. Still no. Must do better……like Brewer plus the 4 plus 2 future picks with the next one unprotected. Then I would at least think about it.
Must do better
so you take the love out and put in the worse player and ‘future picks’?
Jeez – your idea of better smells a whole lot like – let’s make the trad worse.
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking that Minny’s picks could possibly both be lottery picks. And we get Cousins plus an inexpensive guy in Brewer who might become a strong role player that offers versatility to our lineups.
That’s decent value for turner.
But I guess we’re screwed if we do that trade and Minny signs someone to play alongside Love and Turner and start making the playoffs.
So instead of future picks, I’d prob change it to Brewer plus 4th, 16th, and 21st picks.
We don’t need players who ‘might be strong role players’ (Brewer), we need a star player. Draft Turner @ 2.
If we’re gonna trade back to the 4th pick, I’d do Al & 4th pick plus Brand & the 2nd (a pipe dream IMO). Then I’d draft Cousins. It’s A LOT easier to build around a front court talent.
by guitarmouse35 on May 19, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
that wouldn’t be enough for me to do it. I admire Jefferson’s skill with his back to the basket…but he strikes me as a 20 and 10 guy for a bad team type of player.
I think a lot of philly fans would do it….maybe a third or more.
but you’d have to sweeten that deal if I were to consider it.
Whether with Brand or with Jefferson, the team would still be in a similar cap predicament, and Brand is a much better defender and support player if that is his role(and it should be).
Oh i forgot, you think some points are meaningless
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
The only thing about Jefferson that is impressive is his ability to score with his back to the basket in a wide variety of moves. But if you come up against a contender, he just isn’t good enough at it to consistently draw a double.
And Jefferson is not good defensivley. Throw in that he is coming off a knee injury and is locked up long term……..trading for him is not a great move. The wolves fans know this, otherwise their first offer wouldn’t be Jefferson plus the 4.
Mmmm...sort of
The motivation to trade Big Al is more because he doesn’t fit our system anymore more than anything else. And I’m sorry, but Al is every bit as good of a low post scorer to consistently draw a double team in the playoffs. There’s hardly anyone out there who can shut him down, and that’s just the flat out truth. I think Wolves fans would be pretty psyched if we had Al surrounded by guys like Iggy, Jrue, and Dalembert. That’s a team that could do some damage.
The other thing for us is that if you guys do draft Turner, we’ll happily poach Iggy from you. No need, as has been pointed out in the Al/Cousins duo, in having two guys at the same position doing the same thing and both needing the ball in their hands, right? Especially when one is making as much as Iggy.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
Turner can at least defend, handle, and pass. Even if I’m right that he and Iggy are not an ideal fit, he can at least make a contribution.
What does Jefferson have to offer if it turns out that he’s not much better a scorer in the post than Cousins?
Post Defense. Not impressive.
Deep Perimeter play off the ball No.
Help Defense. No.
Impressive in open court. No.
Pick and pop. Not really his game.
He’s a less talented yet harder working version of Zach Randolph.
No thanks.
You are then almost as saddled financially as you were with Brand, but with less defense. I’ll pass. I’m not interested in the 1st round of the NBA playoffs….I’m interested in title contention.
I just think
and I’ll preface by saying that I understand the reasons for choosing Turner, but I do think that if Turner is taken you’ll have to deal either him or Iggy within a year. We’ve tried the two similar players together (Love and Al), and it doesn’t work. It just doesn’t.
Let’s say you do draft and keep Turner. Dalembert leaves after next year, and that opens up your finances a bit. But then what are you going to do when Speights and Young are due extensions? By my understanding you’ll be committing (at minimum) $32 million a year in order to have Brand and two guys who play the same position (Turner and Iggy). And honestly, if Chicago can’t trade Deng is Iggy going to be that much easier?
I don’t know, I admit that I don’t know your roster all that well, nor whether Brand is ever going to be the kind of player you thought he was. But the Atlantic division is ripe for the taking in a year or two. Boston’s going to age real quick real fast, Toronto’s going to lose Bosh and receive lesser talent in return, New York is a joke and is going to get stuck with overpaying Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay, and Jersey is still a ways away from being a playoff contender.
In my opinion your best opportunity to get out from under Brand’s contract is right now. Obviously we have the cap space to absorb a lopsided salary deal, so a Love + #4 for #2 and Brand would work. You’d have Jrue, Iggy, Thad, Love, and Cousins in a division where the biggest star is Rondo and ….? Plus you’d have ample cap space in the years to come, especially with Dalembert coming off the books.
So for giving up Turner you’d get Love, Cousins, and freedom from Brand. That’s the best deal I think you’ll get.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 19, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
but I do think that if Turner is taken you’ll have to deal either him or Iggy within a year.
People keep saying this – people said if you get wall you have to trade Holiday – people are not psychic – people are often wrong – people presuming that Andre Iguodala can’t adjust his game for the players he plays with mostly don’t pay attention to him or assume he’s a selfish bastard (there’s no evidence for that)
I know the sixers finances quite well thank you (they’re not mine – they belong to the sixers – i am not part of the franchise). I know how much cap room they will or won’t have and how many contracts expire this year…
Speights and young have to EARN extensions before they get them – and neither has earned squat yet
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I hear you
People keep saying this – people said if you get wall you have to trade Holiday – people are not psychic – people are often wrong – people presuming that Andre Iguodala can’t adjust his game for the players he plays with mostly don’t pay attention to him or assume he’s a selfish bastard (there’s no evidence for that).
Perhaps I’m just a little disillusioned about it actually working, though. We had Al and drafted Love and it’s clear one of them must go. We also have Sessions, Flynn, and Rubio, and it’s also clear that one of them must go as well. Hell, if we draft Cousins and bring in Pek it’s just more of the same duplication! I hope it does work out, but in my team’s experience (so far) it doesn’t.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
by biggity2bit on May 19, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Or maybe deciding ‘triangle’ before knowing your personnel is a coaching mistake?
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
It helps to have a good team on both ends of the court to contend.
Love and Cousins make up a not so great defensive pairing. Good rebounding, but not the defense we would need in order to contend,
I’d rather have that 16th pick plus Brewer than love if we are going to draft Cousins. Then you have a chance at a more complete team on both ends.
That 12 mil or so a year in cap space would be nice(Brand minud Love). But not sure that cap money would get that squad much closer to contention since most of the best FA’s will be gone after 2010. Also not sure Minny would add that much to their cap on Brand.
Really, what do your wonderful sources say about Jefferson’s defense? Or Love’s defense?
What was Minny’s defensive rankings the last couple years?
Please, enlighten me.
Actually – you’re the one expressing opinions – if you want them respect – prove them – it’s not my job to provide you with evidence in either direction – if you want to be taken seriously you will find your own evidence – it exists
I dind’t say you were right or wrong – all I said is all you have is opinion – support your opinion or don’t be surprised when no one supports it
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
As I suspected, your sources would agree on that one….got ya!
Are you trying to tell me that you are incapable of googling the Timberwolves defensive stats. I have to do that for you?
Why don’t you also check 82games and see his opponents per and points against rank? It’s mot my job to spoon feed the ignorant.
As I suspected, your sources would agree on that one….got ya!
Yeah, that’s what I said.
Now you’re just being foolish. I refuse to do your work for you so I didn’t even look at ‘my sources’ – they aren’t my sources – they’re available to everyone – you’re too lazy to look them up so you make a foolish statement that since i didn’t do it they must support your argument.
It’s a weak ass move and just more evidence that you don’t care about healthy debate or proving your point – you just want everyone to believe you and how smart you are.
I already told you what I’m telling you – but you’re too lazy to read (or just can’t copmrehend)
YOU MADE THE HYPOTHESIS – it’s YOUR JOB to prove it – not mine to disprove it.
It’s like a court case (i know this will be over your head) – it’s not the defenses job to disprove the case – it’s the prosecutors job to PROVE the case.
You are making an assertion and you refuse to prove it – and instead of admitting that you try to use nonsense and tom foolery and changing the topic to avoid that you wont’ support your arguments.
Don’t try and figure out what I’m thinking, it’s beyond you….but that’s ok – so’s my 9 year old niece
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
PS – until you use one fact to back up your opinions, I’m done…you’re not fun any more
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
At least he has something impressive to offer…
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Then they’re very svery stupid – that’s all I’m saying
Wall is better than flynn right now – and rubio might never play.
Trade Rubios rights to the knicks who will over pay for them
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions
This is from Chad Ford – and people need to start putting Chad Fords ‘thoughts’ into the same category as SAS – that’s where they belong.
Minny may move up
Look for the Minnesota Timberwolves to make a strong play to trade up to No. 2. The Wolves are very, very high on Evan Turner. They feel his versatility, scoring ability and court presence is the perfect fit for their young club.
The Sixers, on the other hand, aren’t a perfect fit for Turner. Both Andre Iguodala and rookie Jrue Holiday are versatile guards who can defend multiple positions and handle the ball. And like Turner, neither is a lights-out shooter.
With Minnesota pining hard for Turner, don’t be surprised to see the Wolves offer up the No. 4 and either the No. 16 or the No. 23 pick to Philly to move up two spots.That would allow the Wolves to get the guy they’ve coveted all along in the draft and give Philly an extra pick and a shot at another guy they’re high on — Kentucky’s DeMarcus Cousins or Syracuse’s Wesley Johnson.
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 10:14 AM PDT reply actions
John Hollinger said that the second pick will put is over the luxery tax, and it may lead to a AI9 trade so we could get under since it would be hard to trade anybody else.
Yawn…
Willie Green Expires next year
Louis Williams is an inexpensive solid sixth man
The 2nd pick doesn’t put them THAT over the cap that it has to be iguodala – there are more creative ways
It’s just hollinger being lazy
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
If you consider Brand as a lost assett
Phili has a good young core in Jrue Holliday, Speights, Evan Turner (assuming he’s picked) and Thaddues Young (depending how you rate him). Wouldn’t trading Iguodala for perhaps an expiring and more young talent be a smart move?
Maybe……not sure it;s the way I go, but I can’t flat out say that would be a bad idea. It might mean they get to the lottery again next year if they are lucky.
But it seems pretty risky to me. I doubt the young talent we get in return is anything too special. And I’m not sure what that cap room would get us that would be worth it.
As a Warriors fan I have three questions?
1) Would you prefer to trade Iguodala or the #2 pick? I think it’s pretty obvious the duo of Turner and Iggy aren’t the best fit. No need to rush a trade of course, but idea of entertainer offers for either isn’t a poor idea
2) Does Monta Ellis + Anthony Randolph intrigue you into trading Iguodala?
3) What would you need to trade the #2 pick to the Warriors assuming Curry is off the table?
Another options that hasn’t been discussed for you would be drafting Favors. The idea of him next to Speights long term is a great vision for a team. Of course that’s ballsy to pass on Turner.
1. Neither
2. GOD NO – Monta Ellis is one of the worst most over paid players IN THE NBA
3. Randolph, Morrow’s rights, and for the warriors to take brand without giving the sixers maggette back (and the warriors pick this year and in 2012)
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me start out by saying I respect your opinions jemagee, and notice your comments all over LB. With that said, can you help me understand how Holliday, Turner and Iggy would work together. If I was an opposing coach, my strategy would be to crowd the lane with all my defenders, making it difficult for Holliday, Turner and Iggy to drive, while also having the benefit of disrupting your post offense. How do you counter that when your three foundation perimeter players all would likely struggle as outside volume shooters, which you’d need to do effectively to avoid such a collapsing defense. I understand that all three of these players are great players, and your always hesitant to give up the best player in a deal, but I’m just not sure how it would work. You seem to think it would work just fine so I would love to here why.
I think that people under estimate Iguodalas over all skill set and his ability to adjust.
I don’ tknow that it will work together, I think dismissing it out of hand without giving it a shot is a bad idea. If it doesn’t work – then decide – but don’t trade him without deciding.
Also – check out Jrue Holidays late season 3 point numbers after he worked with Aaron Mckie….
Skilled basketball players can ADJUST their games (athletic ones not as much because of the way their game is based) i belive Iguodala and holiday have both athleticism AND skill to adjust – I don’t guarantee it’ll work – but people guaranteeing it won’t are to me jumping the gun before trying it
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you that if the Sixers think Turner is the Best Player Available and they draft him there isn’t a strong need to rush to judgment. But I also think there is a real risk that if the three have incompatible games, and Iggy’s statistical footprint continues on its downward projection in terms of PER and WP48 due to his lack of playing around compatible guys, it may hurt his trade value. Their are risks no matter which strategy you follow.
Ultimately though I think Turner or Iggy would be best paired with another wing who is long and athletic and can defend but with a strength of outside shooting versus ball-handling, driving, and passing. I would never suggest taking Wes Johnson #2 overall because that is horrible value, but I could see a Wes Johnson-Iggy-Holliday trio as having complimentary skills.
Anyone who uses PER alone to evaluate a player I dismiss imeediately since it’s mostly offensive slanted and ignores defense.
I don’t believe six months of ‘bad’ fit will hurt andre iguodalas trade value any more than another injury hurt kevin martins trade value (and andre iguodala should be worth hella more than that one dimensional mr glass)
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone who uses PER alone to evaluate a player I dismiss imeediately since it’s mostly offensive slanted and ignores defense.
I know it’s chique to bash PER, but I also mentioned Win Shares which does factor in defense, but your right, there is not a great statistical indicator of defense unless you’re a big believer of the possession oriented stats Synergy Sports puts out. PER definitely overvalues Volume Shooters but stats like Wins Produced highly undervalues volume shooters. All stats should be a used to effectively gauge what a player brings.
I don’t consider the Carl Landry poo-poo platter as great trade value for Kevin Martin, but I suppose reasonable minds could disagree. To me that trade was essentially a salary dump, but then again for the exact reasons you state you don’t like PER is why I don’t like Landry, he is an absolutely brutal defender.
It was a salary dump – but my point is that kevin martin is a one dimensional player and Andre Iguodala should have much more value around the league…you think cleveland regrets not figuring out how to get iguodala so maybe somone on that team could defend?
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Clarifying
A Holliday-Turner-Johnson pairing would be just as effective if you could flip Iggy for a pick that turned out to be Johnson.
Let’s say Wes Johnson is fourth/fifth and I buy into your premise.
What trade do the sixers make in your mind that convinces either of these teams to take on Iguodala – matching the salaries – without getting the #2 pick back?
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
The Wolves reportedly want Turner. Reports also indicate they’re not huge fans of Cousins. Iguodala is like Turner. Would they trade #4 for Iguodala? Probably not.
by Jordan Sams on May 19, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
No :)
REports are that the wolves would pick turner #1 over wall – if true it just makes the wolvs ripe for the picking – but i don’t think you get #4 without giving them #2 :)
I think IF there is a deal to make – a good one – it’s with the wolves – it guarantees favors/wes/cousins 2 of 3 available and maybe helps out the sixers more as well…i don’t advocate it per se but i’d be interested to see how much the wolves would pay to get who they consider the #1 pickin the draft
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Here’s a trade that works:
Sixers get: Kevin Love, #4 (Wes Johnson) and #16
Wolves get: #2 (Evan Turner) and Thaddeus Young
That’s real intriguing, especially because I love the players who’d be available at 16.
by Jordan Sams on May 19, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Thad has the potential to be a bad contract after next year.
by Jordan Sams on May 19, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
I think it would work best after the draft so the Wolves could trade their cap space for Iggy, as prior to the draft Philly would need to take back salary.
TWolves draft Johnson for the Sixers at 4 and then after July 1 trade Johnson and Hollins for Iggy. I would think it’s in the realm of possibility if Kahn doesn’t like Cousins.
In a vacum, I don’t think Iggy alone is worth a Top 5 pick. Top 10 pick probably. That being said, I think it’s no guarantee that Wes goes Top 5. DX has Wes going #6 for instance.
The Warriors would be interested I would think. Iggy would be a good fit next to Curry. Igoudala for Maggette + #6?
I would say yes in a second.
Warriors are young. Iggy is pretty much perfect partner for Curry, which is why i asked. It’s also why Warriors fans in general wanted Turner (as he is kind of like Iggy)
Not Maggette please lord not Maggette.
by Michael Levin on May 20, 2010 7:08 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you that if the Sixers think Turner is the Best Player Available and they draft him there isn’t a strong need to rush to judgment.
This is a fair point and the smart move instead of a rush trade….
. But until 1 of those 2 + Holliday show CONSISTENT outside jumper (I know Holiday shot well second half of year, still need to see more) and possibly your 4 or 5, you have real problems. It’s way too easy to guard a team
WHo cares?
This team isn’t going to win anything relevant now – next season isn’t about wins and losses it’s about player development and who works together and who doesn’t…the record is irrelevant
Hoefully Doug Collins understands that
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Here’s the summary
I don’t know basketball strategy as well as other people, but I know people better than most people, for various reasons in my life I have become an excellent judge of a who a person is from brief interactions and more often than not – i’m right.
I believe it will work not for any specific strategic reason but because guys like Iguodala, Holiday and Turner will ADJUST their games to make it work…and whatver turner is or isn’t i believe iguodala can adjust his game to compliment turner (and holiday)
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
WHY THE HELL IS EVERYTHING ITALIXCZED ALL OF A SUDDEN?
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:13 AM PDT reply actions
Missed who were doing the mock draft just now on ESPN but they said they think if we were smart we pick Wesley Johnson #2 overall.
Jordan – tell sbanation to stop screwing around with LOOK and to work on functionality – all this italicized crap is pissing me off
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you guys think some team in the low teens or twenties would be stupid enough to take Lou and somebody else for their first rounder so we could get Avery Bradley or Eric Bledsoe to backup Jrue assuming one of them is still there?
not sure bledsoe is any better than lou, and as much as i like bradley, i’m not sure i’d give up lou and someone else for him. i’d rather buy a pick.
by Jordan Sams on May 19, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d trade lou for a sack of dortios and a ham sandwich if it avoided a l uxury tax avoiding dump of andre iguodala for spare parts
by jemagee on May 19, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions
please enlighten me ...
why do I continue to hear that Iguodala and Turner’s games are so similiar? why do I continue to hear that they “play the same position”? Turner is a 2 guard. We all know Iguodala is NOT a 2 guard and belongs at the 3.
outside of a similar build and lacking perimeter threat, I don’t see these 2 as similiar. Turner’s offensive ability is so much more polished than Iguodala. He can create his own shot for god’s sake!
trust me, I’m not an Iguodala basher at all, but I wanted to check and see if I’m crazy. I can see these 2 working together well … Iguodala needs to be the #2 option, where he can thrive. And Turner has good form on his J, just needs to perfect it (sounds similar to Jrue when he was drafted no??)
How many high scoring or efficient offenses have non-shooters at both the 2 and 3? If your wings can’t stretch the defense, the defense will take away the driving lanes for both Turner and Iguodala. I watched a ton of Turner this year, his dribble drive hesitation move is filthy, he plays at great pace and always seems to be in control. But Turner doesn’t operate in a Vacuum and neither does Igoudala. Just look at the template at OSU that made him so great, he had 1 center in lauderdale and three shooters in Lighty, Diebler and Buford. Those 5 played nearly the entire game every game. That enivornment cleared the lane and allowed Turner to penetrate. You take the ability to penetrate the lane from both Turner and Iguodala’s game due to it being clogged with defenders, they both become less effective.
I don’t think Turner will be a liability on the outside for very long. He has solid mechanics and a good work ethic. I expect him to be league-average at least from beyond by the end of his 2nd year.
Iguodala is also much better as a catch & shoot spot up guy then off the bounce. When his feet are set, his percentages go up.
Lighty’s not a shooter. But if you’re going to talk about his shooters in college, you have to take into account that Turner also had zero low post help or any decent point guard play at OSU. He’s used to running the point and creating, so with Jrue and Andre splitting that with him, it will keep everybody as a threat and hopefully allow Turner to knock down shots at a consistent rate.
by Michael Levin on May 20, 2010 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree that Turner had zero help at the point. That’s why his turnovers don’t bother me as a prospect because in the NBA who won’t have sole ball-handling responsibility. But if you want to forgive his Turnovers, you also have to lower his assist potential as that is a direct result of having the ball in his hands every possession.
Your wrong though about Lighty not being a shooter. All three of Lighty, Buford and Diebler shot over 38% from Three with a minimum of 100 attempts. Diebler was the best at 42% but Buford and Lighty both shot quite well and were shooting threats defenses needed to account for. Lighty was the most versatile of those wings though because he could also shot fake and drive after receiving a pass on the perimeter.
hey im a twolves fan living in mpls and to be honest the wolves are just looking for the face of the franchise to build around.. its quite obvious that we would be giving up more talent to move up to 2 but what do you philly fans think?
wesley johnson is a stud and quite honestly i think he has potential to be every bit as good as evan turner imean the stats and youtube vids speak for themselves.. problem is minny fans wont get excited about him and buy tickets to see the games…
so what does it take to make philly fans okay with trading down.. is the #4 and #16 work? (xavier henry , james anderson and damion james may be available)..
im a twolves fan and here is how i break down the scouting of wes johnson and evan turner as i watched both players plenty this year…
wes johnson has a far superior jumpshot and 3pt shot.. 1.8 bpg and 1.8 steal per game means he has hustle and plays great defense.. he can jump out of the gym… i think he has every bit of a chance to be better than evan turner..
evan turner is soo crafty with the ball and is great off the dribble. its hard to stop him once his body is in motion.. not the best shooter from the perimeter but his agility more than makes up for it…
to be blunt the wolves want turner because they need a face of the franchise.. turner excites people and fans will pay to see him play.. wesley johnson doesnt excite people as much.. on the other hand minnesota has a rich history of making bad trades.. lets take a look…
ray allen traded for stephon marbury?
brandon roy traded for randy foye?
as i said the organization has a history of making dumb trades on draft day, that being said as a fan i want to see evan turner in a wolves jersey next year..
so to philly fans what is a trade you guys would actually move on? the #4 and #16 for the #2? (one or two of the following should be available at 16 xavier henry, james anderson, damion james)
no offense, Mr. Wolf, but I believe the best thing for the sixers’ organization is to draft the best player available regardless of fit (speculation). I’m not so worried about fit now because our team is in no position to contend in the next couple of seasons. You take the best player available and if they don’t succeed, you use one of them as a trade chip to acquire a good player who will fit in your system.
Enjoy Wesley and Xavier.
any interest in big al? in 08-09 he averaged 23pts 11rebs 1.7bpg and was a stud until mr. coach rambis installed the triangle offense which takes the ball out of als hand and makes the wing the primary player on offense which is why corey brewer had a pretty good year..
This is going to be a rather interesting (and very very irritating) lead up to the draft on this blog.
Could we have a pinned fan post with a polite title (I guess) that says something like
“hey, fans of other teams, please limit your silly idiotic trade suggestions that violate the sixers anally to this fan post, all others will be deleted”?
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 8:02 AM PDT reply actions
Fair enough
I apologize if we’re being pain in the asses. Last year someone suggested that Love was better than LaMarcus Aldridge and the BlazersEdge people rained havoc on Canis Hoopus for awhile. It was terrible. I think all of us Wolves fans posting here aren’t intending to be annoying, aggravating, or whatever. We’re just trying to rekindle hope.
"Styx might be the mullet of bands."
I think the way to go is to trade Brand and the high pick. Provided we can get a quality big man to replace him. It is important to look ahead and realize that Dalembert’s contract will be expiring as well. Even if Speights and Smith turn out to be decent players, we obviously need more size to be able to compete with Boston or LA. Brand isn’t that player and his salary makes him difficult to move.
If there is anyway the Sixers could improve their size and inside play, that should be their priority, since that is the formula to win a championship. Getting out from under Brand’s contract and adding another young big man now would be the best outcome to the Sixers situation, and would be much better than adding Evan Turner.
by RickoT on May 20, 2010 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Guess who’s back
back again
ricko’s back
tell the feds
by jemagee on May 20, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
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