Welcome to the wonderful world of Advanced Statistics!
A year ago I saw advanced statistics as nonsense, and no way to analyze a team sport like basketball. However; after a year of experimenting, researching, and learning, I realize advanced statistics can be extremely useful in the evaluation process.
Basketball's version of advanced stats aren't perfect, and still light years away from being as reliable, or as mainstream as baseball's. They can also be extremely misleading, and used incorrectly if not careful.
For most of the season, I've been using a combination of Basketball Value, Basketball Reference, Hoop Data, and 82games to gather information for my posts. Today I discovered another -- and in my opinion, the most accurate -- advanced stats site, Basketball Prospectus. (Technically I didn't just discover Basketball Prospectus, just their advanced stats section.) I don't know how I've gone this long without BP, considering the success of Baseball and Football Prospectus.
The cool thing about BP is the way they explain things. They don't just give you random categories and numbers, they tell you exactly what the categories mean, and how they crunched the numbers.
Here are some new stats I came across while surfing BP, along with some old ones -- explained a lot better. Italics are mine.
Offensive Rating (ORtg): Points scored per 100 possessions, with possessions defined as .96*(FGA + (.44*FTA) - OR + TO). For individuals, estimate of the Offensive Rating of a team made up of the player and four average teammates.
Defensive Rating (DRtg): Points allowed per 100 possessions, with possessions defined as .96*(FGA + (.44*FTA) - OR + TO). For individuals, estimate of the Defensive Rating of a team made up of the player and four average teammates.
Bias: Offensive/Defensive Bias. Measures whether a player is more valuable and by how much on offense (positive numbers) or defense (negative numbers). (I think this breaks down how balanced a player's game is. If the Bias is 0, or close to it, the player's impact on offense or defense is very similar. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Win%: Player winning percentage. The per-minute component of the WARP rating system, estimating the winning percentage of a team made up of the player and four average teammates.
WARP: Wins Above Replacement Player. Based on performance and playing time, the wins a player has created as compared to a replacement-level player seeing the same minutes.
WP: Wins Produced
WP82: Wins produced per 82 games
WP3K: Wins produced per 3000 minutes
([WP, WP82, and WP3K] reflect the meat of the NBAPET player rating system. The aggregate offensive and defensive points created, saved and lost are combined to calculate the number of wins a player is responsible for. The raw total is WP, or wins produced. WP82 is wins produced prorated for the full 82-game season. However a player's availability is reflected in this total. Thus if a player has missed 50% of his team's games, his WP82 figure will reflect this--it isn't "wins produced per 82 games." WP3K, however, removes all playing time and availability differences. It's simply wins produced per 3000 minutes.)
They have a couple more that I won't mention, because they seem confusing and unperfected. But you can read about them here, if you wish.
Since these stats are brand-spanking new to me, I'll save myself the criticism and avoid analyzing them, for now. I'll simply provide you with a table of the relevant Sixers' numbers, and let you do the analyzing.
| Player | ORtg | DRtg | Bias | Win% | WARP | WP | WP82 | WP3K |
| Iguodala | 106.6 | 104.7 | 0.2 | .562 | 9.4 | 12.8 | 12.8 | 11.8 |
| Brand | 104.7 | 105.3 | -1.1 | .483 | 3.1 | 2.7 | 2.7 | 7.6 |
| Carney | 103.7 | 105.7 | -1.6 | .435 | 0.3 | 0.4 | 0.4 | 8.1 |
| Dalembert | 105.1 | 102.5 | -3.4 | .588 | 7.4 | 2.6 | 2.6 | 8.1 |
| Green | 104.6 | 108.0 | 1.6 | .389 | -0.9 | 1.3 | 1.3 | 7.7 |
| Holiday | 104.7 | 106.4 | 0.0 | .445 | 1.0 | 1.2 | 1.2 | 6.6 |
| Meeks | 101.5 | 106.4 | -3.1 | .341 | -1.1 | 0.1 | 0.2 | 10.5 |
| Speights | 105.9 | 105.7 | 0.5 | .507 | 1.8 | 0.4 | 0.4 | 6.9 |
| Williams | 107.5 | 106.1 | 2.5 | .545 | 4.9 | 3.6 | 3.6 | 10.5 |
| Young | 104.1 | 106.2 | -0.8 | .428 | 0.5 | 1.1 | 1.1 | 5.1 |
I think based on those numbers, my favorite new (to me) advanced statistics are Win% and WARP, because they seem to pass the eye-test. Based on the Win% and WARP Andre Iguodala, Sam Dalembert, and Lou Williams were our best players, and Willie Green, Jodie Meeks, and Thaddeus Young were our worst players, this season. (Green and Meeks were below league average.)
What do you guys think of the numbers? Accurate representation? Useless? Useful sometimes? Useful as long as you factor in the Lou Williams bias, because there's no way he was our third best player?
Fire away.
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Comments
Useful sometimes. It’s so much more difficult in basketball than baseball to calculate how a player is on both sides of the court because there’s infinitely more variables. I don’t submit to it yet, but there is definitely value in using advanced stats as a reference point.
Advanced stats are more useful than basic boxscore stats. But they’re nowhere near as good at isolating cause/effect as baseball, and therefore can be misused much easier.
Derek Bodner
by Derek Bodner on Apr 18, 2010 7:13 AM PDT up reply actions
I also like the bias stat.
No idea how it’s calculated, which could obviously affect what I think of it, but it also passes the eye test quite well: Iguodala’s balanced, Dalembert is much more valuable on D, and Lou Williams much more valuable on offense.
In general, I think stats are useful things – as long as the people using them understand their limitations. Jordan, you’re in the middle of a stats class: you know all the problems with sample size, variance, etc., etc. But overall, they can definitely help us understand better what’s going on, and give a lot more depth to player analysis.
Jrue
So based on these stats are we over rating Jrue, or is it just two small of a sample size combined with the growing pains of his first NBA Season?
by Derek Bodner on Apr 18, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
As Derek pointed out a few months ago, stats fail to tell the whole story. Were Jrue’s numbers slightly worse because he was guarding the best guard? Where Jrue’s numbers slightly worse because he wasn’t on the ball as much? Where Jrue’s numbers slightly worse because he was playing without Dalembert behind him protecting the rim?
DRtg is still a really flawed stat. I think they need to add to the equation variables that show who was playing behind guards (a shot-blocking big like Dalembert or a softie like Smith), and whether or not they had the harder assignment. If I were a genius I’d attempt to do it myself.
And as TK pointed out a couple comments below, guards’ defense is harder to evaluate than forwards.
These stats can’t be the end all be all. You have to use your own judgement. I think if all the guards numbers were adjusted the way I suggested, Jrue would probably have the third best DRtg, behind Dalembert and Iguodala. Therefore his ‘win’ numbers would be a little higher.
So no, I don’t think we’re overrating him. He’s going to be a great defender, an above average passer, a good rebounder, and a solid scorer. I don’t think he’ll be a star, and I don’t think you can win a ship with him as your 1 or 2. But he’s still a really good player, and a flat-out steal with 17.
by Jordan Sams on Apr 18, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Quality defensive starts for backcourt players do not exist.
For bigs you can look at things like rebounding rate. But for backcourt players things like steals and opponent PER are not fair measures, since it depends on how many risks you take and who you are asked to guard.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Agree with defensive assignment, but disagree with risks. If you take too many risks, that’s your fault.
by Jordan Sams on Apr 18, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably because his rebounding is a lot better than people give him credit for.
by Jordan Sams on Apr 18, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Defensive rebounding 5% better when he’s off the floor
Offensive reboudning 4% better when he’s off the floor
So maybe it’s not good
by jemagee on Apr 18, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Dalembert is a league average center and Speights can’t rebound like a league average center.
by jemagee on Apr 18, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
League average center.
Well above league average rebounder.
Sam’s offensive deficiencies don’t really have a bearing on this argument.
Derek Bodner
by Derek Bodner on Apr 18, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you agree that Speights rebounding is ‘better than people give him credit for’?
by jemagee on Apr 18, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes.
(Not that I think it’s great. But it’s just not god awful, which most people label it as)
Derek Bodner
by Derek Bodner on Apr 18, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Where is it compared to where you think his ability should put it?
by jemagee on Apr 18, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
If Speights rebounds at the same rate through the rest of his career it would be fine. he bumps up to 22% and he’ll be getting 10+ reb/game with starters minutes.
But his overall defense still stinks.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Speights’ dreb% is 20%, which is slightly above average for a PF/C, but not all that impressive. Good rebounders tend to be 22-25%. For comparison, Pau Gasol, Clarence Weatherspoon and Oden Polynice were about 20% for their careers- and were solid rebounders.
Sam is at 30%, which puts him top 3 in the NBA and was the #22 season in NBA history. In fact no one has ever averaged for a career better than Sam was this season.
As a comparison, Shaq for his career is 23.7, which is extremely good. Sam’s career number is 25.4%, which will put him top 15 all time in NBA history (stat goes back 30+ years.)
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Speights is 60th in the NBA in def reb rate (excluded players <10 min/game.)
Amongst bigs, Brand is next (14.7) which ranks #145 in the NBA. Horrible.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Where’s Reginald Evans? I know his defensive rebounding always got more pub that it deserved, but his o-rebs were dope.
he did not play enough games to make my cut. Last year was 24%, which is excelent (Shaq level) Career 26.7.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Age-old question, but where do you stand on where this team would be if Cheeks or DiLeo coached for the entire season? The more I think about it, the more I realize how much we lost last season.
We lost our 2nd or 3rd best player (Miller, who’s better than Jrue right now). We lost a good rebounder off the bench in Evans (which we didn’t have this year). We lost a guy who single-handedly won us 3-4 games in Donny Ice (I guess Kapono kinda filled this role late in the season?). We lost a backup center who could come in occasionally without the team suffering a huge drop-off in rebounding/defense (Definitely didn’t have this).
I can’t believe I predicted 45+ wins, despite knowing this.
I still contend he had a high offensive rebound rate cause he missed all those 2 foot bunnies and got his own board
by jemagee on Apr 18, 2010 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions
What happened to Thad?
He seemed to be well on his way up and up, then had a huge nose-dive this season. He also seems to be kind of the goat around here.
Now math and stats (they lie) have never been my forte. So the above table doesn’t make too much sense to me. So throwing all the stats away, does anyone like Jodie Meeks on the small amount of games we got to see of him?
I don’t think he’s necessarily the answer at shooting guard, but I’d like to think he could replace Willie Green in the line up. NBA politics will probably dictate that Green and his salary get more minutes than Meeks. But I’d like to think that between Meeks and Jason Kapono both coming off the bench we don’t ever have to see Green get off the end of the 76’ers bench.
Louis williams could replace willie green in the line up
Jodie Meeks brings nothing really that Lou or Willie don’t bring – it’s nice to have three redundant players
by jemagee on Apr 19, 2010 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions
His defense is only mediocre and he’s got a better shot from distance (when he doesn’t rush it). Different forms of undersized two guards with no point guard skills.
Derek Bodner
by Derek Bodner on Apr 19, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Per Dileo, Meeks has toughness and strength that help him play larger than his size.
he is definitely worth his 750K/yr spot.
He should be able to grow into being a decent replacement for WG and fill an 8th man role.
Beyond those examples of faint prise, there is not much else to say.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Does anyone doubt that somehow Willie Green will get a contract extension?
by jemagee on Apr 19, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions

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