Looks like Andre Iguodala is staying put
"The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.
The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big men."
almost 2 years ago
Jordan Sams
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Interesting. Were there any other rumors out there? Maybe the Rockets are still in play…also I heard the Celtics have now expressed interest in Iguodala.
Rockets, Cavs, Blazers. I wouldn’t get your hopes up though. I’d put money on the Sixers not making a single move this season — and that includes keeping the coach and GM. A half-hearted playoff run and a draft pick in the low teens is all we have to look forward to.
by Jordan Sams on Feb 14, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Depending on what you read this deal is close to done or far from being done…I don’t understand why the cavs end amar’e – that already failed once in phoenix – are they going to shoot their title shot this year in the hopes lebron stays on when Shaq and Z are gone?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 11:19 AM PST reply actions
The Sixers need to do something- mostly to avoid being over the tax. I doubt it will be a “basketball decision.”
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
If someone was willing to take lou (or willie) off their hands for a 2nd round pick or something, that would probably be enough.
No one wants Sam, no on wants Brand and the sixers supposedly have pulled Iguodala off -
I don’t see what they CAN do
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Need to, and will are two different things.
by Jordan Sams on Feb 14, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
so the deal with us and the 3 way is..we want in…will take back jrich,danny green,wally or z, andmaybe delonte west but want hickson too and phoenix wants to keep hickson…so unless we find something suitable to replace hickson in the deal……we may not be involved.
So says what’s his name at realgm.com
I think I vomited a little (a lot) in my mouth
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 11:34 AM PST reply actions
This guy knows absolutely nothing. I gave him ample opportunities. He’s never been right.
by Jordan Sams on Feb 14, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
He has been right before, and he has as much legitimacy as most other people…I don’t care either way – you wanna be pissy about it – who cares.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
<blockquote
As for Speights for Hickson + Lopez… that probably is a fair swap. But IMO, Spights has more potential to be a near all-star starter than either of the two pieces you get in return
Sorry TK – hickson and lopez have a better shot of being all star starters in the future than speights.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:17 PM PST reply actions
I'm no expert on Hickson or Lopez...
But my impression is they are not huge upside players. Lopez could develop into a solid defensive center, but he’ll never be much above average at his position. Say a bigger Varejo or less imposing but more athletic Perkins.
Hickson is undersized.which likely limits his upside. He could be a star if a superstar teammate like Lebron makes him one. However, lots of people are sky high on Hickson, so I could be wrong.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
My impression of Speights is that while he has a smooth offensive game, he doesn’t care to learn to pass or play defense.
The other two have shown desires to get better.
Thus better chances at actually BECOMING all stars then just another wasted talent low motivation player
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
Agree, they probably have a better chnace of being assets to a good team
Just don’t see either as being above average starters on an elite team.
Speights has to have the light come on (which may never happen) but the talent is there.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
All these years with Sam Dalembert have taught you nothing have they?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
I simply discussing my initial post you quoted. I said that Speights has elite upside while Hickson and Lopez have much lower ceilings.
I never said Speights would reach his ceiling. Just don’t see Hickson or Lopez as high ceiling guys worth moving Speights/Igfuodala for.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Hickson and Lopez are more likely to improve and become more than they already are than Speights (in my opinion) and thus I’d rather have either of them on the sixers now than Speights because Speights just ends up getting Sam contract with Sams career arc…
Potential with no development is getting tiresome
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
I doubt many of the current Sixers will end up being part of the team when they contend.
I’d rather try and stockpile the most valuable pieces they can find. then either keep or trade those pieces after they have a superstar worth building around.
I’m of the opinion that Speighst will still be a valuable piece in 2 years. While after 2 years on the Sixers Hickson and Lopez might lose value (even if they turn out to be solid role players.)
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
I’m of the opinion that Speighst will still be a valuable piece in 2 years.
Assuming his career trajectory continues – I disagree – if he’s the same player he is now in 2 years – all that potential is kaput – right now he has more value because of his youth being able to ‘fix’ his work ethic – 4 years into his career the work ethic issues become much much louder.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:07 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
He always puts up the same per-minute 20/9/1.5 production. He does not get minutes because the Sixers want to win.
Give him 30+ min a game on a “developing” team that does not want to make the playoffs and he will be a near 20/10 guy. Regardless of defense there are teams that will give you value for him in 2 years (at age 24.)
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
He does not get minutes because he does not play defense.
The more he plays the more people will see he doesn’t play defense and is nothing more than a bench guy to bring points on a good team.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
On really bad team (like the Sixers without Miller or Iguodala) that type of thing becomes less apparent. Put Speights on a lousy lottery team and it will be harder to know if his defense is the culprit, or is the team just bad.
The last 2 years the Sixers have been trying to make the playoffs, and have been unwilling to let Speights take his lumps…
but I agree that most likely Speights is never a good defender or a winning player.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
but I agree that most likely Speights is never a good defender or a winning player.
And if we as fans who have limited access can see it, why do you think GM’s won’t see it?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
GM’s all want to unearth the superstar that is rotting on someones bench.
Speights fits that mold. If a GM thinks that in their superior organization Speights can tap into his potential they will give you value for him. I doubt anyone thinks the same about Lopez.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Speights on the other hand...
Has the total package in terms of talent and physical tools to be an elite PF. If he ever figured out that he needs to rebound and defend up to his capabilities he could develop into a star based on his skill-set.
However, from day one the question has been his make-up, and in the end it probably will be his undoing. He’s like the reverse version of Sam.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Work ethic matters more once you get to the NBA and there’s just too many sources, including two IMG sources who worked with Speights in the past that indicate he has none…
He has more offensive game than Sam Dalembert, but he’s the ‘offensive’ Sam Dalembert…he’s naturally good at something but show no interest in improving his weaknesses
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
That was what I was saying. Sam could have developed a useful offense to go with elite defense. Similarly, Speights could develop solid defense to go with elite offense, but likely will waste his talent by becoming a scorer on a bad team.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
And what I’m saying is that the preponderance of available evidence indicates that Speights ain’t getting better :) Once you get to the NBA – there’s tons of ‘talent’ – work ethic is what separates the stars.
Speights hasn’t shown any…JJ Hickson could average a double double for a season.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Youo may know more about Hickson then me. I just see him as another in a long line of high energy, aggressive undersized PF’s. Sort of reminds me of when the Sixers traded away a #1 pick for a young, agressive but undersized Kenny Thomas- although I admit that’s probably unfair.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Well yeah, it’s unfair to compare anyone to Kenny THomas who has stolen money for years.
I know a bit more, but look at it this way – if he wasn’t seen in a good light in the NBA – why would he be the hold up on all sides in a trade…these guys see more film, know guys so much better than we do, and was there ever ‘all this love’ for Kenny Thomas? I don’t even remember anyone wanting him as a free agent but the sixers.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
KT must have had value if he was flipped for a #1 pick and inked to a big contract. BK was stupid, but he was not completely acting in a vacumn. Same thing for Roy Hinson.
I just have a hunch that away from Lebron Hickson becomes a solid bench energy guy. While Lopez becomes a serviceable center. Both ultimately could be valuable on a winner, but neither will become valuable assets.
Speights, we’ll have to see. But given heavy minutes these next 2 years will put up great numbers. And in 2 years if the light has not come one (which likely it won’t) some team will still be willing to give back value for a young, legit sized PF who can put up big numbers.
And long term the Sixers need to look at the value of their pieces as opposed to whether they fit well together or ultimately will be on the team..
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Billy King signed Kenny Thomas to a conteract before he was ever allowed to hit the open market…he bid against him self, as he used to do with all his restricted free agents…it was one of his giant flaws.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Agree. BK was an idiot with his extensions. Does not mean KT or Sam lacked perceived value at the time they were signed.
Just a smarter GM would have flipped that value in a trade for a better long term asset.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
. Does not mean KT or Sam lacked perceived value at the time they were signed.
A. We’ll never know – cause BK was an idiot
B. Has either player played at a level for the lenght of their contract that shows they deserved it?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
B. Not relevant to the point I made.
Guys like Sam and Zach Randolph get paid big contracts by someone. It is a bad decision by bad GM’s.
My point is that guys who can put up big numbers- no matter how empty- have value in the NBA. That is worst case how I see Speights.
And right now the team needs to stockpile guys with value. either for them or for future trades.
Undersized or under-talented players lose value as they hit 25 faster than guys who can put up big numbers but are not winners.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Perceptions change, GM’s get smarter, and CBA’s revise….all these things seem to be happening right now.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
“GM’s get smarter”
The Clippers have shown interst in Isiah… need I say more?
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Well yes you do since
A. The Clippers flatly denied it
B. NUMEROUS reports make it ISIAHS freinds who reached out to the clippers and then want public
c. ITS THE FRACKING CLIPPERS
Using the clippers as an ‘example’ nba franchise is like using nate robinson as an example point guard
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
There will always be stupid GM’s in all major sports. Guys who think they are smarter than everyone and make bone-headed decisions to show how they are brilliant and can win against conventional wisdom.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
For example, Stefanski contending he would build a contender around Brad and Iguodala using the “Piston’s Model.”
Sure 95% of Finals teams get there with superstars, but why not go it the 5% route…
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
And would you look at this
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913834
Look who chris broussard says is the suns top choice.
I guess he’s useless too and never right?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:53 PM PST reply actions
Indirect shot at me. Chris Broussard works for ESPN and uses an actual name, instead of sixerfan76. And unlike the wizard on a real gm (?) message board Broussard doesn’t make up random Sixers trades every week.
No one is ever right around the trade deadline. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a rumor come true, regardless of who it comes from, but I’d rather take my chances with someone from ESPN or Yahoo than some random on real gm who’s never gotten anything remotely correct since I’ve been paying attention.
Actually, it was a pretty direct shot at you
You’re right Broussard doesn’t make up random sixer trades ever week, he makes crap up for every team that is never proven to be accurate….you lend him crednece because he’s paid.
You say SF is never right – which is blatantly false
The people who TALK to Chris Broussard are hardly EVER named, ‘un named sources’, ‘insiders’, you lend him credence because he’s paid – but he’s still a twat who knows next to nothing about the NBA I’ve found.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 2:03 PM PST up reply actions
PS – it seems you missed this
Broussards report LENDS CREDENCE to SF1976 post which came a couple hours before Broussards article.
Or course, you are determined to think he knows nothing so you ignore the implications of ‘believing’ Broussards report that the Suns primary target is Iguodala.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
The sixers claim they don’t want ‘just expiring’ for Iguodala.
Amare is more than ‘just expirings’ if he opts in but reportedly the fear is that he’ll opt in and that’s why the sixers don’t make the deal.
So publicly they say ‘we don’t want expirings’ but then don’t want Amare cause he won’t opt out (and expire)
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:54 PM PST reply actions
BTW, would not mind adding Hickson or Lopez to this team. Just don’t want to deal away a #1 pick or Speights to get them.
Heck, I don’t want to deal away Iguodala.
The only thing I would trade away current young players (including Iguodala) for is a chance to trade away Brand.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
We get it – you don’t like Brand ;)
But seriously – the only real shot to get rid of Brand was probably dallas and they made the other deal, which I think wasn’t the best they could do but they stil have the magic ‘dust’ chip
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
No, I like Brand a whole lot more than Speights or Thad
Just don’t like his contract given where this team is headed.
If I was Cleveland, I’d trade for Brand if the owneer cared little about the tax. Brand could be a game-changer for a winner. he just can’t carry a bad team like the Sixers anywhere.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Well Lebron has say in ever cavs move (bad idea) so if Lebron doesn’t want Brand, neither do the cavs, and he seems to think they need a stretch 4 – so the cavs think they need a stretch 4 ;)
I think Iguodala Brand is a better duo than what the Mavs got and whatever the cavs will get
but no one listens to me :)_
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
Even Cuban balances money versus talent. Iguodala/Sam are guaranteed about 50M more in salary than Butler/Haywood. That counteracts a lot.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
I don’t think he balances money versus championships…and I think the reason a dallas deal didn’t happen is because the sixers (so far) are sticking to their ‘not just expirings’ for Andre deal.
I think Dallas would jump at a Sam/Andre deal for Dampier/Howard personally
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not so sure
Cuban has long vs short term goals. Not sure he sees Iguodala as a long term building block.
But then again, Iguodala is talented and in his prime. He could probably be traded for positive value at any time during his current contract- even though he is overpaid on the back end.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
He probably doesn’t – but he’s still got Dirk – he’s got beaubois who is probably going to turn into a very solid point guard and he’s got the willingness to spend when other teams don’t.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
Beaubois tested off the charts at the combine. Was really interested in him. And he has all 5 vowels…
Dirk will be 32 this summer and his contract expires next summer befoer the 2011 lock-out. kid is signed for only 1 more year than that.
Do you think Cuban really wants to build around Dirk long term?
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
I think Cuban is a smarter businessman with more willingness to spend than comcast…let’s put it this way
If Cuban was the sixers owner – would you have more faith that they’d find a way to try and build a winner – luxury tax be damned?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Absolutely. Although Cuban has a little Jerry Jones in him in that he could end up screwing himself .
If he makes a major miscalculation (like taking on Brand’s salary) he could get himself i trouble beyond just the tax.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
I’m pretty sure Marc Cuban never hired himself as GM.
He’s a showman, he makes a lot of noise, and is a texas blowhard…but I feel he lets the people who run his franchise make the decisions and he signs off on them – i don’t think he feels he can build a winning nba team (and thus why i have faith the cowboys will inevitably collapse again – the owner doesn’t get out of the way)
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
My only priorities for this team are:
- Find a superstar
- Accumulate good young players and short contracts
-Have good management/coaching/ownership.
Then once you have the superstar and good management you have the chance to remake the roster to maximize you superstar. That is how you win.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Look at when the SIxers drafted AI
The completely turned over the roster and management in 2 years and had them headed towards success 9and then screwed up…)
Would have been much harder to shuffle the deck if they had players with huge long term contacts.
Again, I basically want to move Brand’s contract, but would be fine keeping the rest of the roster. Especially since a lot of players come off the books next year, and Iguodala will always have value.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Then just give up now
Comcast ain’t selling anytime soon
Until they do there will not be good ownership
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
Although I would prefer to keep Iguodala I am not sure he is staying put From Adrian Wojnarowski:
Suns waiting on Philly to tell them whether Andre Igoudala will be included with Sam Dalembert for Stoudemire-Barbosa package, sources say.
To be clear, there’s no deal for Suns with Philly unless Iguodala is involved. So far, Philly hasn’t been willing to include him.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Chad Fords
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq
Maybe just making stuff up to reinforce Broussards original article…
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 10:48 PM PST reply actions
Haven’t seen anything, but what happened to the Sixers/McGrady talk?
Chase Utley is so good that on one pitch he stole second, third and the shortstop's hat.
Sixers want more than expirings supposedly.
by Jordan Sams on Feb 15, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
The sixers/mcgrady talk was brief and died quickly when the rockets weren’t willing to include anything.
Now it seems like they’re about to rip off the knicks so they can have more cap space and give david lee a max contract this off season
by jemagee on Feb 15, 2010 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
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