The 76ers direction of building needs to be that of the New Orleans Hornets
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 24, 2010 10:16 AM PST
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PrintSomeone's looking at the Hornets and are wondering why they are 11-1? Is it simply because of Chris Paul? But to be fair, Darren Collison had a great rookie year last year, so while Collison ain't a CP3 he certainly held his own. So, what is it?
'The Hornets built a team. Marco Belineli is a guy that can shoot and play within a team system. Trevor Ariza plugs that hole at the SF they had for so long. Emeka Okafor is finally becoming the player the Bobcats envisioned when they picked him to be their franchise big. Dell Demps knew he didn't have a whole lot of cap-space, he didn't have alot of trade assets. But he knew there were guys out there, with a chip on their shoulder that wanted to win. Guys that were underlooked.
Building a team, something so epically simple is lost among the scouts and the fans of today. People predicted the big 3 of Miami to win 70+ games and run away with the NBA. But people forget something: It's a team game. Dell Demps and Monty Williams didn't forget, infact it was their primary message. A team led by their star PG has a chance to win every game, take a look at the Utah Jazz who just a couple of weeks ago pulled off a string of OMFG games that were amazing, even if you just read the box score.
Over the past few years, we've picked players with "upside". Thaddeus Young still has untapped potential and is a much better pick than Al Thonrton or any other scrub they could've picked. But Rodney Carney? Athletic, 6'6 and can defend. That seems like what you need to do to be drafted by the 76ers. Never mind position.
Continuing on, Mo Speights? This ain't the time to go deep into that, he had a great game and he's always shown these flashes. But he's not big enough or strong enough to be a 5. More like a finese 4.
The Jrue and ET picks were obvious, but if we were going to buy/trade for a first(even though we technically didn't) why Craig Brackins? Why Mo's clone? A 4, maybe(or a tall '3'?) Can't defend, can't really rebound but is a jump shooting big. Is that really what we needed out of the draft after Turner?
Or maybe it was Dongaila!? The Hornets stole a roleplaying guard and a jump shooting big on expiring contracts for what amounts(most of the time) to a bust in the NBA. A jumpshooting big.
What the 76ers needed, was a shotblocking 5 after Daly left. Not another jump shooting 6'10 non-defense softie. Hassan Whiteside may have had his character issues, but at the 2nd round what's there to lose?
As far as trades? We can't shoot so let me trade the one shooter I have(Korver) for cap-space because Miller's too valuable! So valuable we let him go for nothing 3 years later. In response to this trade, I have to trade a rebounder off the bench(an area in which the 76ers struggled/struggle to this day) for a guy who can't even get off the bench because all he does is shoot!
How about signings? The Phillymax is still the one move I'll actually defend. Brand averaged 20/10 in the last 6 games of that season and was/is a 6'8 big man that can rebound, block shots and score. If we actually kept Dalembert, this season could have an entirely different tone to it. Also, the freak injury in the Milwaukee game wasn't really his fault. Oh and EJ will go down as one of the top-5 worst coaches in franchise history.
As a matter of fact, Elton Brand is really the one and only move I can say we made and realistically think: We got better.
The One and ONLY move! Sad to say but only one move that actually makes your roster better doesn't build a roster. Dell Demps just completed a trade to get Jarrett Jack, David Anderson. Not exactly the biggest of moves but it allowed the Hornets to dump a chemistry killer(Jerryd Bayless was reportedly complaining. Showing how much of a loser he is. Enjoy Craptortown) and acquire a true back-up PG to Paul and a jump shooting big who can actually play in David Anderson. Little moves like these go a long way when you got a roster and a system in place.
Even now, in the draft we're talking about Harrison Barnes and Perry Jones. No doubt great players, but we can't afford to do another one and done in the draft. Simply because Barnes/Jones aren't going to transform the franchise overnight. And looking/hoping for players to do that is like Miami's big 3, I'd rather be Boston's big 3, where the players actually fit together.
I don't mind if we draft a Barnes/Jones, but it simply can't just be that. We're not one player away(nor should we try to really compete. I don't want to be the Atlanta Hawks either. ).
I want us to come outta the draft with 2 or more players. And I want these players to fill a need. We do need a wing that can play 30+ MPG a night and shoot the ball(and do more than that obviously). We also need a player who can play off the ball and allow Turner to become the player we know he can be. Which is why I'm leaning towards Barnes over Jones. Yes, less talented but more of a better fit and will help us win ball games.
I want to hear we acquired a top-10 or so pick. I want to pick a Sullinger/Kanter or the likes. Since we'll be a lottery team, our 2nd rounder will be a pretty high pick. Let's turn that into a solid roleplayer(pretty much all you can hope for in the 2nd unless some stud falls. I don't care what the issue is, pick him).
I want us to come out of the draft, eventually free agency and signings and what not and say universally:
We're a better team. We haven't been able to say that since Elton Brand, and we really weren't able to say that because of the aforementioned epic gaffes our front office made.
Let's try to not acquire the most talent AKA Miami. Let's try to acquire the most talent that actually fits. Not like this roster of misfits right now.
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“Athletic, 6’6 and can defend. That seems like what you need to do to be drafted by the 76ers.”
Which explains why they drafted, Young, Speights, Lou Will, and Willie Green – all sub-par defenders at best.
Most players are drafted because they have upside. That doesn’t mean they are going to reach their full potential, or even a decent fraction of it. It’s a gamble. Some teams luck out, others don’t. Of course, there are many other factors involved with creating a successful team.
"I admire his competitiveness. As much as I admire it, I thought that he was trying too hard."- Eddie Jordan
I think the Hornets will sneak into the playoffs
No way they keep winning, especially considering their last three games.
Teams like the (current) Clippers, Thunder, and Blazers are much better models for this team going forward.
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The Clippers are NEVER a model to build off of. All they’ve got is an explosive big man, a decent SG and a bunch of nothing else.
We’ve been there and done that with the Clippers and their constant #1 overall selections.
I don’t wanna be the Blazers either. Tying up massive amounts of money in LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy and Marcus Camby. Good playoff team, it might go far…Might.
About the only team I wanna be out of that list is the OKC Thunder. And they might become the next Blazers by wasting their money on an Andre Miller-level FA.
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 24, 2010 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
Someone’s looking at the Hornets and are wondering why they are 11-1? Is it simply because of Chris Paul?
You got one thing partially right in this whole fanpost. The Hornets are good because they built a team. But it’s because they had a star to build around. The Hornets lucked out when they had a high pick in a good draft and didn’t make a mistake. That is the reason for the success of about 90% of the good teams in the NBA. If the Hawks didn’t stupidly pass on Paul we’d be talking about how good Atlanta is and the Hornets would likely be in the cellar. The acquisition of players who can play a role is not the main reason they are willing. The Hornets won 56 and 49 games in the last two seasons that Paul was healthy, They won 37 last season in the season that “Collison held his own.” Clearly Paul is the difference.
As far as trades? We can’t shoot so let me trade the one shooter I have(Korver) for cap-space because Miller’s too valuable! So valuable we let him go for nothing 3 years later.
Miller WAS too valuable for a team that had dreams of competing. They had to get rid of Korver so that they had enough money for the Elton Brand signing that you loved. Signing Brand at the expense of Miller would have been silly. They thought that signing Brand would make them a top 4 team in the East. That certainly wouldn’t have been true if they didn’t have a PG. Unfortunately Brand was never healthy enough to make that a reality.
I don’t mind if we draft a Barnes/Jones, but it simply can’t just be that. We’re not one player away(nor should we try to really compete…)
Talk about contradictory. If we shouldn’t even be trying to compete why do we HAVE to come out with multiple pieces? We have to be patient but they better get all of the pieces right now.
Never argued that the Hornets weren’t missing much, they missed a ROY, a MVP-Caliber player in Chris Paul. Of course they were missing alot. But Collison was a good enough general that can lead you to wins. So obviously their early-season success has some part to do with what they put next to Paul.
Unfortunately, Ed Stefanski(nor the fans, me included) didn’t do our homework. Miller and Brand were once team-mates on a failed Clippers roster(speaking of the Clippers). It mostly failed because Miller’s a Jump shooter that doesn’t spread the floor. Unlike Sam Cassel who worked brilliantly with Brand in the lone year of success for the Clippers.
And this goes back to what I said, we never drafted to our needs. Iverson was never a PG. Lou wasn’t ready until about his 3rd year. Why not draft a Rajon Rondo? Because some kid out of High School is going to eventually be A.I’s successor? I feel pity for Nets fans right now.
And the Korver trade was made worse by not re-upping or trading Miller or any actual assets. A total failure by the bumbling heads in the Sixers FO.
Let me address my try to really compete thing. I mean, do what we did this yr: Drafted Turner, acquired bandaid players like Nocioni, Battie. Kept the “vets” like Brand, Iguodala who have NO future whatsoever here.
I want us to blow this core up, it ain’t going anywhere even if we add a million Barnes/Jones to it.
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 24, 2010 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
Never argued that the Hornets weren’t missing much, they missed a ROY, a MVP-Caliber player in Chris Paul. Of course they were missing alot. But Collison was a good enough general that can lead you to wins.
The Hornets went 13-24 without Paul last season. Over an 82-game season that is 29 wins. Clearly there is a gigantic difference between Collison and Paul. Try using some facts to back up your opinions.
Unfortunately, Ed Stefanski(nor the fans, me included) didn’t do our homework. Miller and Brand were once team-mates on a failed Clippers roster(speaking of the Clippers).
And what would they have done without Miller? Play without a PG?
Why not draft a Rajon Rondo?
Thanks Captain Hindsight! Clearly we should have drafted Rondo! While we’re at it, why not draft Serge Ibaka or DeAndre Jordan instead of Speights? Why not Rudy Fernandez, Carl Landry, and Ramon Sessions instead of the many people we picked in 2007? Why not draft Luis Scola or Carlos Boozer in 2002? It’s clear now that those are the picks we should have made!
And the Korver trade was made worse by not re-upping or trading Miller or any actual assets. A total failure by the bumbling heads in the Sixers FO.
Trading Miller instead of Korver would have been a dumb move. When you’re trying to compete you don’t trade your 2nd best player. If they had traded Miller there would have been no point to even trying to sign Brand. They weren’t going to compete without a PG.
I didn’t like that they let Miller go for nothing either. However, he was seen as a major piece of the current team at the time of the Korver trade and the Brand signing. Trading Korver was the only move that made sense to clear move for the Brand signing.
When Peja Stojakovic and James Posey are your major wing men, thats a BIG hole at the SF position. Although we wouldn’t know that based on the Sixers terrific defense(I kid)
The Hornets made vast positional upgrades and have gotten better. Everyone universally agrees Collison had a good yr. Well, you don’t but that’s why we live in America: Freedom of speech baby.
To answer your question: Lou Williams has constantly played better last yr then this yr as the “assassin” of the team. I think Lou’s a decent combo guard and a much better perimeter threat/spread the floor than Miller.
Landry or Sessions ahead of Jason Smith would be pretty sexy. Again, our FO is inept at basically every basketball operation, the product on the floor is quite telling.
It’s not in hindsight. It’s called making a draft pick, not a reach. This FO needs to learn that. We’ve got a hole at X position, there’s a pretty good prospect at that position let’s go up and get him.
It made no sense then or now. The only good thing that trade accomplished besides clearing salary was giving Thaddeus Young PT.
Face it:The FO has been borderline awful-to-catastrophically epic fail the last 3-4 years.
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 24, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
“But Collison was a good enough general that can lead you to wins.”
Your words, not mine. Collison did not lead the team to wins. Chris Paul did. My entire point was that the reason the Hornets are so good is because of Paul. It should be apparent when you look at their record without him (and with Collison instead) opposed to their record with him. I said nothing at all about Collison’s talent level.
The Sixers were looking to contend that season. Trading a veteran PG and starting a then 22-year old project combo guard would have been nonsensical. You don’t trade away the 2nd best player on your team when you’re trying to compete.
t’s not in hindsight. It’s called making a draft pick, not a reach. This FO needs to learn that. We’ve got a hole at X position, there’s a pretty good prospect at that position let’s go up and get him.
It’s pretty much the definition of hindsight. Even if the Sixers wanted to fill a “need” at the time, Rondo wasn’t even the top PG left on most people’s draft boards at the time of the Sixers’ pick. Marcus Williams was expected to be a lottery pick and fell all the way to 22. Would you be happy if the Sixers picked Marcus Williams? In that case they would have identified the need that you think they had and they would have filled it. The Sixers aren’t the only ones to miss on Rondo. The Celtics got him from the Suns for a future first. There are 28 other teams in the league that could have had him.
It made no sense then or now. The only good thing that trade accomplished besides clearing salary was giving Thaddeus Young PT.
Those were the ONLY two reasons that they made the trade and why it made perfect sense at the time.
If we had known that Brand would be a complete bust after signing him then trading Andre Miller would have been the right move. No point in having a 30+ year old point guard on a team that isn’t going to make the playoffs. The Sixers didn’t have the benefit of hindsight though. They had a solid PG and the ability to get under the cap to sign a difference making player. It didn’t work out but that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t the right move at the time.
Let me make this as simple to you as I can: Name the LAST time this front office in the last 3-4 years made a move to address a position of weakness?
In reality, we’ve only made two moves, two moves in the last 3-4 years that actually addressed a real, actual weakness on this roster. So what’s the other move I’m referring to?
When Billy King swindled the Nuggets out of Reggie Evans for a guy who would inevitably retire. The 76ers struggled mightily on the boards. And adding Evans with Dalembert led Daly to have one of his best seasons that year.
Elton Brand wasn’t a bust, it was mostly unfortunate. And let’s stop calling Andre Miller a point guard. He’s a combo shooting guard in a PG’S Body. He was a PG maybe back in 2005. Those days are done and over and were done and over when he was a 76er. He averaged career lows in assists as he focused more on his scoring.
The difference between Miller and Lou(especially knowing what we know now) were little. Lou had a much better year last year. As the “Assassin” he’s clearly epic failing.
But we wouldn’t have been in that position had the FO addressed our needs. Do you know how lucky we are Jrue Holiday fell to us? If not for that, we’d still look at our pitiful PG position, including the SG and C position.
That would be 3 positions, and yet you have the audacity to defend this horrible front office? I can say with absolute certainty that I would be a better GM than both Stefanski and King. I would address our needs, look beyond the stat sheet and what’s occuring on the floor.
Iguodala’s 15/5/5 and Miller’s veteran savy play weren’t(and in Iguodala’s case isn’t) leading us to wins. And Iguodala will have a lesser role somewhere else.
As a GM, I’m prepared to take bad contracts/supposedly lesser value for our vastly overpaid swing man. Our front office epic failed, and the sooner the fans and the FO realize that the better.
Or we can keep praying these cast of misfits one day fit. And to the tune of 40 wins?
shakes head
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 25, 2010 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree
You were the guy that said knowing what we know now you still would take Bowie over Jordan. You would be a terrible GM
Yeah, assuming I can keep Bowie injury free and assuming our roster is strong enough I think it’s a pretty safe pick.
Of course, through interviews and stuff you can know a person’s personality, but who would’ve guessed that Michael Jordan would have the will and the fire to become what he was?
You generally go big over small, unless the small in question has that kind of fire and determination.
I would’ve drafted Durant over Oden. I always thought far before the injuries Durant was the best player in the country when he came out in ’07.
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 26, 2010 1:39 AM PST up reply actions
And let’s stop calling Andre Miller a point guard. He’s a combo shooting guard in a PG’S Body. He was a PG maybe back in 2005. Those days are done and over and were done and over when he was a 76er. He averaged career lows in assists as he focused more on his scoring.
You make the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen on theinternet, and that is saying something.
I am not “defending the front office”. I’m defending one move they did. Trading the 2nd best player on your team to make room to sign Elton Brand would have been the most indefensible move the Sixers have ever done. Billy King and Ed Stafanski have done a horrible job. It’s quite impressive of you to show that you would be even worse than both.
Arrogance at it’s finest. You support a wing man that makes 12.5 million a yr this yr that can’t even play to his strengths(as little as they are).
No one is or ever will bang on the door for Iguodala. Think about that.
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 26, 2010 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Andre Miller had to do some scoring. When he was on the team, nobody else was doing the scoring. But Miller is a point gaurd. And with Brandon Roy having knee problems in Portland, Miller may have to pick up his scoring again. Supply in demand. The team demands scoring and he or someone is going to have to supply it.
I'm tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok---Shaquille O'Neal
Not to mention that Miller’s 6.9 apg in his first full season as a Sixer was his 5th most in his long career. To say that he averaged career lows in PG is plain incorrect.
And the assists gradually dropped, didn’t they? We had to be one of the heaviest isolation teams in the league. I can’t wait for there to be ball movement again in Philadelphia
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 27, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
With levies?
Levies in Philadelphia would be awesome.
Overkill for the Skulkill, but awesome.
That depends, with Jarrett Jack at PG yeah. But Collison is a pretty good player, why the hate?
by LeQuan Glover on Nov 26, 2010 1:36 AM PST up reply actions
Because Collison is on Indiana.
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by Michael Levin on Nov 26, 2010 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
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