Sixers Trade Thread
by Jordan Sams on Feb 3, 2010 9:21 PM PST
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PrintThe Andre Iguodala trade rumors are gaining some steam. Here are excerpts from Chad Ford and Marc Stein's latest trade columns.
For the past several weeks, I've dismissed the idea that the 76ers, even if they are desperate to reduce payroll, would give away Iguodala for the expiring contract of Tracy McGrady. But after talking with a number of people close to the situation, I think it's plausible.
A deal of Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert for McGrady would work under terms of the collective bargaining agreement. While it would eat up any cap space the Rockets might have this summer, if Iguodala is the prize, who cares?
So what's the holdup? A couple of things. From Houston's point of view, Dalembert's 15 percent trade kicker would be a bitter pill. And from Philadelphia's perspective, it's important to get back an asset for a building block like Iguodala. While the Sixers love the idea of getting his long-term salary and Dalembert's off the books, they want something in return. The Rockets could offer Trevor Ariza or Aaron Brooks to sweeten the deal, but it sounds as though talks haven't gotten that far yet.
I love me some Aaron Brooks, but I think Jrue is the point guard of the future. And Trevor Ariza is basically a poor man's Iguodala. I'll pass on both of them. I just want to get Iguodala's contract off the books.
The Sixers are only growing more determined to make a deal before the deadline. I've heard that in strong terms from three different sources this week already.
Which tells me we should expect to keep hearing more trade scenarios that include Andre Iguodala's name.
Foiled in its longstanding attempts to move Samuel Dalembert and/or Elton Brand, Philly has apparently come to realize that its best shot at a shake-it-up move is convincing one of the risk-taking/big-spending teams out there - such Houston, Dallas and Cleveland - to absorb the four years and $56.3 million remaining on Iguodala's contract after this season.
Use this thread to post any fake Sixers trades. Try to be as realistic as possible and use the Trade Machine to make sure it works under the cap. I want to see some cool proposals. The goal is to get Andre Iguodala and Elton Brand off the books so we can move forward as a franchise with the few assets we have, which hopefully includes a top 5 pick in this year's draft.
Here's my favorite trade:
Dallas Mavericks receive
- Andre Iguodala
- Elton Brand
Sixers receive
- Erick Damiper
- Josh Howard
- Rodrigue Beaubois
- 2010 1st round pick
Another user-created commentary provided by a Liberty Ballers reader.
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Comments
NO suggestion but Mo Williams out 4-6 weeks has to make the Cavs a bit panic filled in the concept of keeping Lebron don’t you think?
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:02 PM PST reply actions
A quick try on the trade machine should they feel Lou Williams is a good option to replace him.
Cleveland receives: Elton Brand and Lou Williams
Philly receives: Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Delonte West
West is signed this year and next year, Big Z has an 11 mil expiring. Thoughts?
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Delonte West likes guns
He’s from st joes
and he has issues
he fits perfectly :)
I have no idea about his game but i’m pretty sure he’s a GUARD (as in can’t play forward too)
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah he plays strictly the 2. He can shoot decently well (career 37% from beyond) but hasn’t been used much this year. Defensively he’s not a liability, I’d say he’s a bit better than Bill Green, which isn’t saying much. He’d help, but he’s primarily in the deal to match up the contracts and because Cleveland doesn’t seem to want him.
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
That means (if jordan listens to stefanski) the iguodala young thing comes to a head.
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
gilbert so kind to set a precedent for him – we’ll find out soon if gil’s contract will remain under wiz’s cap
by Tanner Steidel on Jan 21, 2010 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Well Gilberts problem was his behavior after the fact – Gilbert is kind of a moron – West has kept his mouth shut
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
And hasn’t fake shot any of his teammates during warmups
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
That was sort of encompassed in ‘gilbert is kind of a moron’ :)
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
workin on one now
a three team trade: cavs, sixers, kings
main pieces are sixers getting expiring contracts (which they seem to want), cavs getting iguodala, kings getting dalembert (had interest earlier this year i remember but celtics didn’t want to take nocioni)
Not to put the kibosh – but 3 team trades at the deadline are very rare.
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
I got one that works.
Sixers Receive: Kenny Thomas, Ilgauskas, and Sergio Rodriguez
Cavs Receive: Iguodala
Kings Receive: Dalembert
All three of our contracts are expiring. Not sure if I love it, but it works on trade machine.
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
Lebron and Iguodala would be insane as wing players.
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh i know they work in principle – but practicality is that 3 ways just don’t tend to happen during the trade deadline because they’re very very fragile :)
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
3-way Deal
Sixers Get:
Big Z (11.5 mil expiring)
Kenny Thomas (8.7 expiring)
Hilton Armstrong (2.8 expiring)
Delonte West – 1 year left at 4.2 mil
Cavs Get:
Iguodala
Sean May (contract reasons)
Kings Get:
Dalembert
Cavs 1st round pick
Obviously I hate the idea of trading iguodala but it the sixers want to cut costs and get expiring deals/cheap deals with only one year left – i would do the trade – but it works for what the sixers want and cavs get someone to lure lebron back
by Tanner Steidel on Jan 21, 2010 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
o shit i said i would do i meant i wouldn’t do it
by Tanner Steidel on Jan 21, 2010 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
The idea is to get expiring contracts for Iguodala, not a player who has an equally bad contract with less skill.
Let’s get it straight that Iguodala’s contract is not bad for his ability, it’s bad because of the pieces we have around him. He deserves every penny of that deal.
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Dude, he’s not clutch, he doesn’t want to win, he lacks veteranability AND grit and he doesn’t average 20 points a game, let alone the 25 points per game Speights can
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s terrible, but I don’t think it’s great either. When talking about basketball contracts ask yourself, “What would Darryl Morey do?” And D-Morey wouldn’t have signed Iguodala to that contract. Stefanski was essentially bidding against himself as well.
Not terrible/not great means that it’s fair. If somebody’s getting jobbed, then it’s great for the other party. It’s what he deserves.
by Michael Levin on Jan 21, 2010 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Daryl Morey will be the billy beane of baseball
There’s some good and there’s some bad there.
Beane A’s usually out perform expectations
Beane A’s ALWAYS fall flat in the playoffs
I expect Morey’s run in Houston is going to be similar
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
I look at what he’s doing in Houston and I think of those Detroit Pistons that made the ECF every year and won one finals with LB – I think Morey is trying to duplicate that model which was an exception I believe to the ‘you need two stars’ rule
by jemagee on Jan 21, 2010 5:57 PM PST up reply actions
Jose (Princeton, NJ)
J.A., are the 76ers really shopping Iggy?
J.A. Adande (4:03 PM)
That’s been the rumbling for a while. To the surprise of some other GMs, actually.
by jemagee on Jan 22, 2010 1:45 PM PST reply actions
PS
Mo williams gone for 4-6 weeks
now Delonte West has a broken finger
Think Cleveland is motivated to make something happen as the ‘leaving Cleveland’ fear is still a huge thing…and no last nights game against LA or the win IN LA means the cavs can take a fully healthy and motivated Laker team in a 7 game series
by jemagee on Jan 22, 2010 1:53 PM PST reply actions
if we trade Iggy or Brand to them, they will be set and then have a chance to take on the Lakers
Mo Wiliams, Iggy, LeBron, JJ Hickson, Shaq
A pretty nasty lineup that would be
eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK
or we could trade Wille Green and Elton Brand or IIgauskus and West
eff you we winning anyway
A.I. IS BACKKKKKKK
Oh the past part of that in the daily dime was the word ‘untouchable’ being attached to lou williams…an untouchable sixth man who can score a lot and not play any defense? Cool
by jemagee on Jan 22, 2010 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
proposal
Hey all. I’m a Mavs fan. I really want Kevin Martin. I get the impression you guys want rid of Iguodala’s contract. I’ve spent some time on the Kings forum and I get the impression they went interior defense. So:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfkfsuh
Sixers get:
Howard
Gooden
Armstrong
Thomas
Kings get:
Dalembert
Iguodala
Barea
Mavs get:
Martin
Nocioni
Smith
So, Sixers get 28.4 mil in expiring contracts. Kings get a defensive big and a better passing wing to pair with Tyreke Evans. Mavs get KMart.
I don’t see how Philly is going to get rid of Brand. I think they’re kind of stuck with him. Giving up Dampier, Howard, a draft pick and Beaubois for two bad contracts would be awful, and likely prompt mass suicide.
Sad as it is, I’d probably do this. That’s a whole lot of expiring contracts. I would see if I can get a draft pick also, but I know that’s probably unlikely. I love piling up picks, especially if half of our roster expires anyway.
by Michael Levin on Jan 23, 2010 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
re:
You’d do it, the fans on the Kings forums seemed willing to do it.
Get Stefanski on the phone!
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 12:15 AM PST up reply actions
Of course the kings do it – they get the most talent out of the deal
There’s a better trade for the mavs in all this mess though
by jemagee on Jan 24, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
Dalembert and Iguodala for Howard and Dampier
Simple, no complicated 3rd team and the Mavs get a better all around player (Iguodala) than martin and a center who is much better and more athletic than Dampier
\
by jemagee on Jan 24, 2010 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
with respect
I’d rather have Martin and Dampier than Iguodala and Dalembert. Martin is a better fit on the Dallas offense, as an efficient, low mistake player(which Iggy is not particularly), and I think it’s arguable whether or not Dalembert is better than Dampier at all. He’s certainly not “much better”. In terms of production they’re basically even(looking at PER and WS), with similar strengths and weaknesses.
The big advantage with Martin/Dampier, however, is the contracts, which are a lot friendlier than Iggy/Dalemberts’. If they make the deal for Martin and they don’t get any farther than they did last year, they have a pretty good chance of packaging Martin and Damp’s unguaranteed contract and getting a quality return. That is a lot less likely with Philly’s duo.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Iguodala is easily a better player than Martin. His contract is bigger but deservedly so. The only thing Martin is an improvement over Iguodala is shooting. Andre can do everything else on the court better.
by Michael Levin on Jan 24, 2010 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
they bring different skills to the table
Iguodala may be more versatile, but what evidence is there that he’s easily the better player? Martin has posted the higher PER of the two in each of the last five seasons, often by a significant margin.
Martin is a great shooter, yes, but more than that, a great scorer, one of the most efficient in the league. He gets to the line a lot more than Iguodala, is a significantly better outside shooter, and turns over the ball a lot less. These are probably the most important qualities a shooting guard can possess, and, more to the point, they are more glaring as team needs of the Dallas Mavericks. Flanking Martin with Kidd and Marion negates most of what you lose from Martin on the defensive end, and he provides the perfect complimentary scorer to Dirk. That’s what Dallas needs.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
PER is a purely offensive analysis number – it ignores defense – which is one of the things the Mavericks need if they want to win a title.
Kevin Martin can’t come close to defending Kobe Bryant, neither can anyone else on the mavericks – guess who has the versatility to play the 1 2 or 3 and is one of the better defenders in the league. Guess who leads his team in scoring AND assists and is second in rebounding (here’s a hint, it’s never been kevin martin)
The Mavs lose in the playoffs, every year pretty much, not due to offense, but due to defense, they are softer defensively than marshmallow fluff….Martin doesw nothing to improve the defense, and dampier is old and slow and at the end of his contract.
If you think martin HELPS the Mavs weakness more than Iguodala does – that’ great – if you evaluation players based on an offensively slanted statistic that’s great too…if the Mavs work that way they’re never going to win a title.
by jemagee on Jan 24, 2010 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
re;
PER isn’t a purely offensive metric, but you’re right, it doesn’t tell the whole story defensively, which is why I’m willing to concede that Martin isn’t necessarily the better overall player. PER’s pretty important though, and Martin has the clear edge there.
Regardless, you can’t make the goal of a trade to get the guy that can stop Kobe Bryant. That’s just not going to happen. He’s not a Hall of Famer by accident. For what it’s worth, though, Shawn Marion has done a pretty decent job against Kobe so far this year: Kobe’s averaging just 15 points a game on 40% shooting in their three meetings.
Your analysis of the Mavs shortcomings is about three years and one big roster shakeup out of date. Look it up: the Mavs are a defensive team, and its the defense of Kidd, Marion and Dampier that keeps them in games. That’s why they’re 7th in defensive efficiency, and 13th in offensive efficiency. Notice how they managed just 81 points against the 76ers Friday night. Maybe the Mavericks are “soft”…but that’s a pretty hollow, silly criticism, especially given that the 76ers have won 1 playoff series since ’02, and the Mavs have won 8.
Iggy’s a good player, don’t get me wrong, and I’m sure there are plenty of other teams that would want him and have more use of his abilities. But the Mavs don’t really need what he brings, and they’d have to change a lot of what they do offensively to take advantage of his skills(whereas Martin could slip seamlessly into their offense). They have rebounding, they have one of the best passers in basketball, and they have quality defenders to put cover up Martin. They need a scorer, and one who isn’t a volume shooter like Andre. He’d take possessions away from more efficient scorers, specifically Dirk and Terry.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think PER is pretty important, but ESPN does so people buy into it more than they would if Hollinger didn’t work for ESPN – there are numerous ways to analyze players performance better than PER, they just don’t work for ESPN all that much.
Yes the mavericks scored only 81 against the sixers on friday night, maybe cause the sixers finally started playing defense. Look at the knicks game today (without dampier and kidd by the way) and the mavs had 81 points before the end of the 3rd quarter.
You think adding more points will make the Mavs title contenders, that’s great.
History disagrees with you
by jemagee on Jan 24, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
re:
Hardly a newsflash: the Knicks really suck defensively.
You seem to think my argument here is that offense is better than defense. That’s not what I’m saying.
What I’m saying is, the Mavs already have a pretty solid defense, and a very garden variety offense. Given the personnel they already have and the schemes they run, I don’t think Iguodala helps the latter too much. Martin absolutely does, and given who they can put next to him defensively(Kidd and Marion, two outstanding defenders), I don’t think his shortcomings will have the kind of impact they might on another team.
Adding more points made the Lakers a title team.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
Andre is not a volume shooter. He may bring similar skills defensively to Marion, but I think he’d help your ball club worlds more than Martin would.
by Michael Levin on Jan 24, 2010 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree
Maybe volume shooter isn’t the most apt term…but he is a low percentage scorer, who needs a lot of possessions to get his points. Martin doesn’t.
Also, Philly runs a lot of their offense through him, which won’t happen in Dallas, because they have Jason Kidd. Martin is a guy that can score 20 a night and barely have any plays run for him.
If you like Iguodala so much, why not just keep him?
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Also, Philly runs a lot of their offense through him,
Really?
If you like Iguodala so much, why not just keep him?,
I love folk like you – you think because you make up a trade than it’s something teams are really talking about.
You’ve made it clear in those two comments I highlighted that you think you have influence over what the Mavs think and that the people at this blog have influence over what the sixers thing.
You’ve also made it clear you may not have seen a single sixer game before friday and have no concept to the motivations of the organizations potential moves.
by jemagee on Jan 24, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
re:
“Really?”
Yes, I’d say so. Iguodala handles the ball a lot more than your average 2 guard, as he’s a pretty good passer and ballhandler. They’ll play him at point often, or have him initiate the offense. That’s a big reason why he gets the number of assists that he does.
“I love folk like you – you think because you make up a trade than it’s something teams are really talking about.”
No, I didn’t say that. I have no idea what teams are actually talking about, beyond what is reported via media rumors. Neither do you. However, this thread was created for us outside observers to discuss ways in which Iguodala could, theoretically, be traded, and the person who responded to my post seemed on board with my hypothetical. My question was, if he and other posters here value Iguodala as much as they seems to, why is this thread here, and why would they be willing to sell him to another team for expiring contracts? Just wondering. No slight intended.
I’m certainly not suggesting my trade is likely to happen. Where are you reading that?
“You’ve made it clear in those two comments I highlighted that you think you have influence over what the Mavs think and that the people at this blog have influence over what the sixers thing.”
Have I? I don’t think so. That would obviously make me pretty delusional. If you’re referring to my comment on calling Stefanksi, I would have thought it was obvious that that was a joke.
“You’ve also made it clear you may not have seen a single sixer game before friday and have no concept to the motivations of the organizations potential moves.”
You assume quite a bit about me.
For starters, I watch quite a lot of basketball, thanks to the miracle that is late night League Pass. I don’t catch every 76ers game, so you probably have seen more than me, but I don’t see how that’s important.
Now, as to the motivations of the organization, I, like everyone else here, can only speculate, based on what I’ve read and seen. This thread made its objective clear, however: trade Iggy and free up cap space. I was merely adhering to its raison d’etre.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
also
I’ll add that a big reason I’ve watched a lot of 76ers games is because the Iguodala to Dallas rumor has been circulating for a while, and I’m always interested to see the players that might be potential Mavericks someday.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
As Ive said before, if the Sixers can package Iggy and Brand and not get really bad contracts back, we take it.
Id take this in a heartbeat.
by philiafan14364 on Jan 25, 2010 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I wasnt saying I do, but I guess I could see how would think I implied that.
“As Ive said before, if the Sixers can package Iggy and Brand and not get really bad contracts back, I THINK we take it.”
Happy? God…
by philiafan14364 on Jan 26, 2010 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
You don’t have to address me as a deity – but i appreciate the thought.
I’ll be happy when people stop referring to themselves as part of the team they root for – there is no ‘we’ – there is the sixers – and then there is the fanbase – you are not part of the team – you do not have a say in the decisions…just because you would do something doesn’t mean the sixers are going to think the same way.
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, I’d say so. Iguodala handles the ball a lot more than your average 2 guard, as he’s a pretty good passer and ballhandler. They’ll play him at point often, or have him initiate the offense. That’s a big reason why he gets the number of assists that he does.
Now, as to the motivations of the organization, I, like everyone else here, can only speculate, based on what I’ve read and seen. This thread made its objective clear, however: trade Iggy and free up cap space. I was merely adhering to its raison d’etre.
Freeing up cap space anyway they can is their primary motivation – you seem to indicate you think they ‘want’ to trade Iguodala – they probably don’t – but very few people have trade value on the sixers – if they could dump sam and lou I’m sure they’d prefer that to avoid the 2011 luxury tax.
Iguodala doesn’t start at the two guard, nor does he play a whole lot of minutes at the 2 guard, but hey…keep going.
If you want to value scoring over all things, that’s awesome – but if you want the Mavs to function like that – then accept never winning a title
by jemagee on Jan 24, 2010 3:01 PM PST reply actions
re:
“you seem to indicate you think they ‘want’ to trade Iguodala – they probably don’t "
Well, I didn’t make this thread, nor did I create the rumors being reported about him being shopped. I was just going along with the thread topic, like everyone else, though I don’t see you chastising any of them. Maybe they want to, maybe they don’t. I doubt that’s a question that we can answer.
“Iguodala doesn’t start at the two guard, nor does he play a whole lot of minutes at the 2 guard, but hey…keep going.”
I will. In most places he’s listed as a shooting guard, he plays quite a bit at the 2, and has for a lot of his career, although since bringing Iverson back he’s often started at small forward. On the Mavericks, he’d be the 2. This is nit that really doesn’t need picking. My points are still valid.
“If you want to value scoring over all things, that’s awesome – but if you want the Mavs to function like that – then accept never winning a title”
At no point did I say that I value scoring over all things. In fact, I’ve refuted that claim repeatedly. At the risk of becoming redundant, I’ll just say go back over my posts in this thread, because you’re now just recycling your arguments.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 24, 2010 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
It’s just a bummer that Andre is such a good player but because of the wall management has backed us into, we’re a team that needs to unload contracts and rebuild. He’s a better player than most people around the league give him credit for, and I think you as well, if you’d watch him consistently as we do. Surrounded by good offensive players and a capable point guard (such as the situation in Dallas), he’d thrive.
I wish we could have that situation here for him, but unfortunately we won’t for at least 3 years, so for his benefit and Comcast’s desire to keep away from the luxury tax, it seems likely that we’ll try to trade him. I still contend he’s a better all-around player than Kevin Martin, and would even be a better fit in your system, but I can see your need for a shooting guard that does just that, rather than someone in the same general realm as Kidd and Marion. Once again, however, at this stage in their careers, I’d take Iguodala over both of them. We appreciate you commenting here, just keep your skin thick because things end up getting hostile quickly.
by Michael Levin on Jan 24, 2010 11:12 PM PST up reply actions
I appreciate your response
believe me, no offense intended or taken(after all, its pretty silly to get riled up by an internet message board). I do like Iguodala a lot, he’s a very good all around player, and I certainly don’t think he wouldn’t be able to help Dallas. He’d be fun to watch in Dallas blue, without question.
Maybe it’s just me, and if the front office believes differently I’ll absolutely defer to their superior scouting acumen, but watching the Mavs play and looking at their payroll situation, I think going after a guy like Martin makes more sense for them. His unique skill set fits pretty much exactly in line with the team’s biggest holes, and his contract is such that, if things don’t work out, they’d probably be able to try somthing new by packaging him with Dampier’s contract.
Also, as it turns out, Martin has the same agent(Dan Fegan) as almost half the Mavericks roster, so that connection might make Martin more attractive as a trade piece.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 25, 2010 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
“just keep your skin thick because things end up getting hostile quickly”
Like they always do when a certain someone is around.
by philiafan14364 on Jan 25, 2010 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
It wasnt a dig at you, I was just saying that thats what usually happens.
by philiafan14364 on Jan 26, 2010 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not sure who you’re representing in this situation Jordan.
by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2010 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
maclin and jackson both better than austin
Marc Sanchez has more playoff wins than Tony Romo
MARC SANCHEZ :)
by jemagee on Jan 25, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
You’re first statement is absurd.
And Mark Madsen has more rings than Andre Iguodala.
MARK MADSEN :)
Unfortunately I like Austin. I’d rate Jackson over him, but not Maclin yet, despite his quietly impressive rookie season. Kid can play though (that statement could apply to all three, and does.)
by Michael Levin on Jan 25, 2010 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
despite his quietly impressive rookie season
Part o f the point – rookie – like shady
not to mention the better coaching staff and owner smart enough to stay out of the way
by jemagee on Jan 25, 2010 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
Cause he’s a better receiver AND he’s one of the most dangerous punt returners in the game.
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
you are kidding yourself if you think Miles Austin is better than D-Jax. Jackson’s first and second year numbers blow Austins first and second years number away.
This year was Miles Austins only relevant year in 4 seasons and Jacksons second consecutive relevant season in as many years.
Was Miles Austin the better receiver this year by looking at stats … yes (barely about 150 yards and 2 TDs and 18 more receptions isn’t a huge gap). Is he overall a better receiver … no f’n way.
With that said if Miles Austin continues this upward trend I may be inclined to change my stance but until then it’s really not even a close argument. I’ll take the consistent guy over the inconsistent any day of the week.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
eh i’d take smash williams and tim riggins anyday – o wait they’re running backs… nvm
by Tanner Steidel on Jan 26, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
We’re all shocked that two cowboy fans would disagree with an assessment of an Eagles player.
One playoff win in how many years and they get cocky.
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
You’re a big advocate of backing up claims with facts, so give me give me some facts that prove Jackson is better than Austin.
Austin has much better numbers despite starting less games.
Austin is a more versatile receiver, meaning he doesn’t just go deep.
Head-to-Head Austin had 15 catches, 221 yards, 2 TDs.
Jackson had 8 catches, 90 yards, 1 TD.
They don’t go head to head
Austin goes against the eagles secondary (weak this year)
Jackson goes against the cowboys secondary.
Once again, I’ll point out that Jackson is also a punt return threat, one of the best in the league…
Miles Austin – one good season of performance – when no one expected it – we’ll see how he does next year when teams key on him
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
Being a good punt returner doesn’t mean he’s a better receiver.
No they don’t go head to head, but bottom line is, Austin made plays in “big” games, and Jackson didn’t.
And Austin saw as many double teams as any WR in the league. You think anyone was worried about Roy Williams?
Well when the smarter people rank the receivers we’ll see, but one capable of returning punts is what they call a ‘double threat’ – which makes him more valuable
Not worth arguing, both teams were unworthy this season, i’m making my garlic cheese bread concoction and listening to nostaliagia on slacker.com (yes, 90s IS nostalgia for me you young whipper snappers)
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions
Who are the smarter people?
I’m waiting for my mom’s homemade Philly Cheesesteak, and I was born in the 80’s FYI.
You’re still in college so either real slow or you were born after 1985
which means i was in my teens before you were born – and you aren’t a member of generation x (sorry dude – you just can’t be cool)
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Actually i believe it’s the ‘nintendo’ generation :)
Generation X is an excellent book by one of America’s great under appreciated writers
and now back to the garlic cheese bread :)
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Smarter people – the folks who figured out how to judge who good and bad offensive line man were – i forget the names – outside, scientist – somethingt like that
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 6:02 PM PST up reply actions
Possibly, they came up with ways to score ‘wins’ on offensive line men -
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
fwiw
the “smarter people” think Austin is better:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr
Austin ranks well ahead of Jackson in both DYAR and DVOA, which, for the uninitiated, means not only was he more productive on the whole(and, in this regard, Austin lead by, no pun intended, miles), but added more value per play.
by Alan Smithee on Jan 26, 2010 9:15 PM PST up reply actions
Austin has much better numbers despite starting less games.
This is a horrible argument he still had 124 balls thrown his way so obviously he was on the field a lot.
Jim Johnson 1941-2009
"The 0-2 pitch, swing and a miss! STRUCK HIM OUT! The Philadelphia Phillies are 2008 World Champions of baseball! And let the city celebrate! " - Harry Kalas 1936-2009
hah
The Eagles have plenty of good receivers as it is, but the Cowboys actually helping their bitter rival? Such thoughts may boil my Texan blood.
I’ll take a new offensive line that doesn’t suck, though, please!
by Alan Smithee on Jan 26, 2010 4:14 PM PST up reply actions
Back to basketball
Ric Bucher: On Amare: 7-8 teams interested. Not Cavs, which makes sense: Amare/Shaq didn’t work in Phx, Amare not a stretch 4, doesn’t play D, etc.
I wonder if Cleveland is obsessed with obtaining a power forward as NBA writers are with writing that it has to be a stretch four
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 5:45 PM PST reply actions
Depends if they can find a deal that works – hopefully the sixers would ask for more than JUST Z or Shaq (to waive) or get rid of another contract (brand or sam) – but if the cavs need ’4’s’ you aren’t getting their best young cheap player
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve seen a better trade that gets rid of brand too and doesn’t stick the sixers with west and his gun problems
plus – the cavs at this moment need all the guards they can get :)
by jemagee on Jan 26, 2010 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
Four Team Trade
Sixers get Tracy McGrady (HOU), Taj Gibson (CHI)
Rockets get Lou Williams (PHI), John Salmons (CHI), Gerald Wallace (CHA)
Bulls get Elton Brand (PHI), Raymond Felton (CHA)
Bobcats get Willie Green (PHI), Luol Deng (CHI), Aaron Brooks (HOU)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf5yaje
holla.
We give up Elton, and dont have to give up Iggy to do it?
If that happened, I would personally go to Eds office to shake his hand.
Too bad the Bobcats would NEVER in a million years take that.
by philiafan14364 on Jan 28, 2010 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Who wins that trade, it’s like terrible for every team involved.
It’s a good example of what’s wrong with the trade machine :)
by jemagee on Jan 28, 2010 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
I’d say we win and nobody else. Sooooooooooooooo
by Michael Levin on Jan 28, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
I know it isn’t Iggy or Brand but every 76er game I have had a chance to see this year I have not liked what I have seen from Lou and I have read that he isn’t happy with Eddie Jordan so I thought I should try this one.
That’s not the right link for the trade you set up – sorry – you’ll have to ell us the trade you made.
The reason you don’t like what you see from lou is that the sixers don’t know what lou is.
he’s not a point guard
he’s not a starter
he isn’t good defensively.
He’s a sixth man when you need points – he’s iverson lite- playing him with iverson is a problem
Again, Lou (like iguodala) is a victim of being asked to do things he isn’t capable of – the sixers seem to be in the habit of doing that recently – hence their problems – and the fans buy into the sixers nonsense
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions
Two trades you could make from an outsiders perspective
Bulls fan here. Not offering any of our players but have ideas on what you all might be able to do.
The above Dallas trade is clearly the best, but no way Dallas takes Brand. Switch out Brand for Dalembert and I think it could happen.
Who would take Brand off your hands? How about Charlotte? Larry Brown is crazy and they need a low post threat. trading Brand for Tyson Chandler makes sense for both teams. Tyson’s contract is much shorter for 76ers and Brown is one of those guys that loves taking underachieving players and getting them to reach their potential. Just look at that S-Jax trade that everyone thought was dumb at the time.
I’m not sure the Charlotte owner ALLOWS Brown to take brand off the sixers hands though…that’s another team that while competetive rumors are that the owner is looking to position for a sale…brands contract is bad mojo for a sale.
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
At his point I'd do Damp + Howard for Iggy + Sammy (Sorry but no Roddy)
We (the Mavs) need a trade NOW if we want to contend. I’m aware of the “Mavs as players in the 2010 Free Agency” stuff, but I wanna get rid of Howard ASAP, and if that means having to trade Damp to Philly and replace him with Dalembert (a younger, more athletic center, but with a slightly worst contract), I’m all for it.
Right now I’m watching LA at Philly, let’s see how our hopefully future players do against our main competitors for the Western Conference crown.
Also: Damp's BBIQ > Sammy's BBIQ
Iggy for Howard is a HUGE upgrade though. So is Kevin Martin for Howard straight up.
We’ve had this debate repeateldy with another of your brethren
I don’t see Martin helping the Mavs weakenesses (defense) and he’s a one trick pony – Iguodala can Dee up, rebound and get assists, and all around guy – martin scores – and needs the ball A LOT – Andre Doesn’t.
Damps BB IQ may b higher than Sam’s – but damp is old slow and unathletic – sam is none of those things.
I don’t buy the whole ‘dust’ thing – it’s been pitched here – and i don’t buy it – the mavs have NOTHING else to offer really of value aside from that ‘dust’ thing – low first round picks – oh boy :)
Iggy + Sammy for two expirings with nothing else is a CLEAR win for the mavs – gotta be something else in there
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
You haven't watched the Mavs this season, have you?
Defense is NOT one of the Mavs’ weaknesses. You’re not even close. Consistent scoring to help Dirk is the main 09-10 Mavs’ main weakness (Terry’s steaky as hell, Howard sucks ass, Marion misses a lot of easy shots). Martin is a one trick pony, yes, but that trick is a lot of efficient scoring. Iggy’s a much better all-around player than Martin, or Caron, or Maggete. He can score in many more ways than Howard, plays better defense, is not injury prone, and, more important, he has a brain. He is my favourite trade target without a doubt, but those other names are major improvements for the Mavericks.
The issue is the fact that the Sixers may be reluctant to trade Iggy away without getting rid of another bad contract.
As far as the sixers are concerned, Dalembert is a bad contract.
Kevin Martin is a volume shooter who needs the ball in his hands (which is why it doesn’t work now that Sacto has one other guy on the roster) – he would not be good in Dallas – plus he doesn’t defend real well or do ANYTHING else but score.
Defense wins championships
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions
Still, my main concern regarding Marting is that he misses lots of games due to injury
The exact opposite of Iguodala.
The Mavs are pretty balanced offensive defensive performance actually – if it were me i’d want the more dynamic player (Iguodala) then the guy who does one thing ‘real well’ but very little else (injury history or not)
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
By the way, one of the most important defensive flaws of the Mavs is the inability to stop the fastest PGs (Paul, Brooks, Parker). Do you think Iggy can help in that area? Because Carslile doesn’t rely on Roddy B for those assignments.
Iguodala is one of the better defenders in the league (in my opinion) and can guard one’s two’s and three’s. (he can also play those three positions offensively) he has great court vision but some times makes the fancy pass when the simpler pass will do and rebounds at a very good rate.
He won’t ‘wow’ you with one stat but he’ll stuff all the stats – just don’t ask him to be a good perimeter shooter – he just isn’t…but his dunks will also make you all very happy
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
The Mavs, as good defensively as they are now
Would be fricking elite with Iggy. On both ends, actually. I’d give you DUST in a heartbeat. Would Cuban? Not so sure.
See…here’s the thing
Dampier Howard for Iguodala/Dalembert – in my opinion is better than any thing you might get with DUST, especially since DUST plus what is what you have to offer and the mavs have very little to offer in terms of assets or low first round picks? (Unless they own the draft rights of some super duper euro ready to come over but the sixers hate euros).
I have no doubt Cuban would make this trade personally – because on the court it makes the Mavs closer to winning a title DURING the nowitzki window and I don’t think he cares about luxury tax more than winning – i think cuban is a great owner and he will spend what it takes to win.
DUST MIGHT net you something (but alone I don’t see how) but Dirk is another season older – or you trade him now and get something real and tangible now (two somethings) that maybe help the Mavs challenge for a title against a soft defensively lakers team THIS year.
I think if the sixers made the offer to cuban he’d say yes – i think the sixers wouldn’t say yes YET bgecuase they still want to try and dump brand with Iguodala
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
Hell no to Brand
A monster FA going to Dallas next free agency is far from a sure thing, and the whole “Let’s wait till next year” stuff is getting tiresome. Dirk’s not getting any younger. The Mavs are competing at the top of the West right now, but are still too inconsistent, so Iggy would be a blessing against LA, and specially Denver. Sammy’s youth and athleticism would help too (Damp got raped by Nene in the playoffs).
Cubes needs to pull the trigger.
Interesting, Dallas is ‘equally’ good offense and defensive efficiency this year 12th offense, 11 defense
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 5:22 PM PST reply actions
Depends on how you look at it (PPG is not how to look at it)
by jemagee on Jan 29, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
I thought up a trade that would get us $12.3M in expiring contracts
We get Kenny Thomas, Michael Finley, Ian Mahinmi
Kings get Jason Kapono
Spurs get Willie Green and Primoz Brezec
I was bored
Why would the kings or spurs do this?
by Michael Levin on Jan 30, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
Dear Mavs Fans reading this thread.
Who was ‘defending’ Andre Miller when he scored 52 points?
by jemagee on Jan 31, 2010 11:36 AM PST reply actions
Just aying, Iguodala, awesome defender, but I’ve been told the Mavs don’t need defense.
If you let Andre Miller score 52 – you need defense
by jemagee on Jan 31, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions
Dumbest halftime piece ever – on the clippers broadcast, I get to find out why all the cavs have the number on their uniforms?
by jemagee on Jan 31, 2010 4:18 PM PST reply actions
The only one I remembered is that Candace Parkers brother (cousin) wears number 18 because he played in israel and Chai is 18 is life
(he didn’t pronounce it right, but you goys hardly ever get hebrew correct)
by jemagee on Feb 2, 2010 7:42 AM PST up reply actions
almost as interesting as why Kapono wears 72…
oh, and I don’t know about the rest of the posters on here, but I’m no gentile. Been reading hebrew years before my bar mitzvah ceremony.
Even jews have their own special category of geek :)
I took hebrew for two semesters in college to get some credits but can’t read it no more :)
by jemagee on Feb 2, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
Houstonian Here
How about this idea?
Boston, Philly, Houston trade:
Philly gets: Tracy McGrady, 2010 2nd round pick. Don’t be greedy, you may be rebuilding with John Wall.
Boston gets: Shane Battier, Elton Brand
Houston gets: Igoudala, Speights, Ray Allen
Do you do this deal?
hahahahaha now that’s funny – so we should give up iguodala, brand, and part of our future with speights to get zero talent back and second round pick all on the hopes that we win the lottery?
by Tanner Steidel on Feb 3, 2010 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
You don’t work for the Houston Rockets
You aren’t Daryl Morey
Your trade was proposterous – it goes against everything the sixers said they were going to do AND you not only take their best player you take one of the most offensively refined young big men in the league right now and offer an expiring contract for Mr Glass and a second round pick.
You want to not be insulted – how about you come up with trade ideas that have a possiblity of happening and aren’t so slanted towards ‘your’ team that they exist in the realm of possibility.
God I hate trade machines…I HATE EM – they should require IQ tests
by jemagee on Feb 3, 2010 9:06 PM PST up reply actions
From Chad Ford:
I’ve struggled to accept the idea that the 76ers would give away Iguodala, their best player, no matter how desperate they are to cut payroll. But in NBA front offices, the word is that he is very much available. Of course, Philly’s hope is to get rid of the contract of Samuel Dalembert in such a deal.
A source told ESPN.com on Wednesday that the Houston Rockets have recently renewed discussions with the 76ers about a deal involving Iguodala and Dalembert for the expiring contract of Tracy McGrady. And as I reported above, the Suns have also entered the mix, offering Amare Stoudemire for Iguodala and Dalembert. The Cavs and Dallas Mavericks have explored Iguodala deals as well.
Slowing discussions at the moment is the fact that the Sixers really want to get some talent back in such a deal. The Rockets have players to offer, and the Suns might be willing to throw in Leandro Barbosa, I’m told.
So while the Sixers are motivated to move Iguodala, I think it’s going to take more than an expiring contract to land him in the end
You need Insider to read it.
He mentioned earlier in the column that the only two he could think of that could involve Iguodala right now are either him going to the Suns along with Sam for Amar’e and Barbosa or him and Sam going to the Rockets for McGrady’s contract and possibly somebody else.
Right now it requires more than an expiring contract
Smart teams will wait until the 18th gets closer and the sixers start to sweat that need to cut payroll
God this pisses me off…even when they should be in control of the makret – they et all stupid and suddenly aren’t – like when snider made his espn comments about iverson
by jemagee on Feb 4, 2010 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
From Kate Fagan
Iguodala has four years and $56 million remaining on his contract; Dalembert will earn $12 million next season, after which his contract expires. Stoudemire’s contract expires at season’s end, but he has a player option to earn $17 million for the 2010-11 season.
The Suns are very interested in Iguodala, according to the source. But are the Sixers interested in acquiring Stoudemire, who may or may not remain with the team past the end of this season?
Contrary to what has become popular belief, the Sixers are not interested in expiring contracts, so this deal would make sense only if there were assurances that Stoudemire – rumored to be balking at the thought of joining the Sixers – would remain another season and then seriously consider re-signing.
The other long-rumored trade scenario involves Iguodala going to the Houston Rockets for Tracy McGrady and his $23 million expiring contract. According to a source close to the situation, talks between the teams have stalled and could accurately be labeled as “sporadic.”
At the shoot-around before last night’s game against the New Orleans Hornets, Iguodala talked about the impact of trade speculation and whether he considers it flattering.
“I think I’ve always known how my game is seen across the league,” Iguodala said. “I think I’m one of those guys who gets a lot more respect from my peers than those who don’t know that much about basketball, so I think that’s the good part. I’m ready for whatever – I don’t look at anything as a negative.”
If they aren’t interested in expiring contracts then why would they do Andre for Amar’e?
Whatever the F.O. says about not being interested in expiring contracts, it’s bullshit. They are. If Stoudemire somehow becomes a Sixer and decides to accept the option, they’d be pissed. Getting rid of the 3 big contracts for expirings is exactly what they’re trying to do. Any sort of longterm value that comes back in the form of young players or draft picks is just gravy.
by Michael Levin on Feb 6, 2010 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
nothing to do with the rumor but i love how andre took a shot at the philly media and stupid fans
by Tanner Steidel on Feb 6, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
We have had Kevin Martin trade rumors in StR, so lets combine all three teams together for a trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzvgdrv Idea i first proposed.
Pookeyguru did some analysis and came up with: Philly gets Josh Howard, Kenny Thomas, Matt Carroll and Dallas 2012 pick. The Kings get Sammy Dalembert and Andre Igoudala. And the Mavs get Andres Nocioni and Kevin Martin. He then futher analyzed it and came up with: This is what it costs Sac in 2010-11 season: 50.4 million committed in salary without Rodriguez, Brockman or the 2010 1st round pick added to the salary. (9 players including Iggy & Dalembert under contract in this scenario.)
So already you’re down 10 million without adding any other players you would get (or have to re-sign) with Martin or Noc on the roster.
In the 2011-12 season, with just Iggy on the roster, you save about 4.6 million total based on the current salaries.
In the 2012-13 season, with just Iggy on the roster, instead of Martin at this point, the Kings are paying 2.278 million dollars more that year.
In the 2013-14 season (Martin’s contract is now over), Iggy is owed 15,904,750$$$$. The Kings end up losing 13626175 on the total length of everyone’s deal, and it can be easily argued that money is lost on Dalembert because of his salary and trade kicker.
This is the only way I see a deal being done because the Maloof’s are willing to go after Sammy & Iggy as a tandem and Philly would take Carroll off Dallas’ hands (I don’t see Dallas taking Noc with Carroll still around) and the 2 1st round picks from each club going to Philly (instead of talent). This work, besides the trade link, is all pookey’s. What do you guys think about it?
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
My revised trade proposal
The Kings, and Mavs, preparing for a deal could first: swap HA for Najera. Then, Philly gets Carroll, Najera, KT, Howard, and Dal/Sac pick. Dal gets Martin and Nocioni, plus Brezec to free up a roster spot for the Sixers. Kings get Iggy and Sammy. Everyone wins, sort of?
If you also wonder why Philly will take on 2 contracts that go past 2010 they won’t. Najera’s last two years are only $500k guarenteed, so Dallas will throw Philly $1 Mil to cover costs to lose Najera for cap space. Sac pick will be protected, as well.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.-1984 George Orwell.
12 more days…12 more days…12 more days….12 more days
by jemagee on Feb 7, 2010 9:55 AM PST reply actions
Stoudmire Optis in – and the sixers are still fracked next season
by jemagee on Feb 8, 2010 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I think the tactical nuke the league dropped last year is going to severely curtail spending on second (and third) tier guys this off season.
Sorry Amar’e – you’re too old, too injure, and too crappy defensively – you make think you’re top tier – but you’re second tier
by jemagee on Feb 8, 2010 6:50 PM PST up reply actions
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