Sixers lose game; earn another ping pong ball in the Wall Sweepstakes
As a basketball fan there's no better feeling than watching your team hit a game-winner, but when every win hurts your team's chances of landing a sure-fire prospect like John Wall, you find yourself rooting against it -- at least I did. When Rodney Carney's wide open three rimmed out at the buzzer, the die-hard Sixers fan on my left shoulder removed his halo, slouched his shoulders and shed a tear or two. But on my right shoulder, the little John Wall -- equipped with horns and a pitchfork -- jumped for joy, and I was right there with him.
Recently I've found myself asking one question after every Sixers game -- as fans, are we overvaluing our team's assets? I'm becoming convinced that the answer is yes. Either that or I just expect too much, too soon from our young guys. I do know this however; the New York Knicks are a better basketball team than the Philadelphia 76ers right now. For the most part, I thought the coaching was a wash tonight, so we cannot blame the coach who will not be named for this loss. Whether or not that answers my question about overvaluing our team's assets... well I'll leave that for you guys to figure out, because I don't have the answer.
For the rest of my recap I'm going to start a new trend for myself. Instead of griping over the Sixers suckiness or breaking down the game itself, I'm going to focus on five players -- five players who must develop in order for the Sixers to ever be relevant again. The five are: Lou, Jrue, Andre, Thad and M16. Their specific development -- or lack thereof -- will make up of 90 percent of my recaps until either a) we get a new coach or b) the team goes on an incredible playoff run. And you and I both know neither is probable, despite my gut-feeling that we'll sneak into the playoffs and ruin any chances of a coaching change or John Wall.
Lou Williams
Lou was pretty bad tonight. He was 1-7 from the floor, led the team in turnovers and never got into a rhythm on offense. He's a perfect example of my least favorite type of basketball player. He does one thing well and that's score. And scoring is the least consistent skill in the NBA. Some nights it's there, some nights it's not. Unlike skills like rebounding and defense -- which rely mostly on effort and want-to -- most players can't score consistently unless they're a superstar like LeBron or Kobe. So what does Lou bring to the table when he can't find his offense? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Despite his team-leading +4 in the +/- category (which I think is a totally bogus stat) Lou wasn't good tonight. It's not surprising that his minutes are dwindling.
Jrue Holiday
Unlike Lou, Jrue can contribute in many ways. But before I get to tonight's performance I want to warn my fellow Sixers fans. Put the anointing oil away. I'm a big fan of Jrue Holiday, but he has a long way to go. I've already seen people pencil him in for numerous All-Star games. Others seem positive he's going to be a top 5 or 10 point guard in the league. Some have even claimed they'd rather have him than John Wall, which is completely stupid. He very well may live up to the hype -- I'm rooting for it, obviously -- but I don't want us to have a repeat of Thaddeus Young. People anointed Thaddeus Young way too early and now he's considered a disappointment. Let Jrue develop on his own time. Hope for the best, but don't be so sure he's going to be a superstar. This brings me back to my 'overvaluing assets' question. Every Cowboys fan thought Julius Jones was the second coming after his rookie year. Look how that turned out. As for tonight's game, Jrue was basically the anti-Lou Williams. He had a breakout night offensively, shooting 3-5 from the floor and scoring 8 points. But since he can contribute in other ways, he doesn't live or die with the jumper, and shooting nights like tonight are just gravy. Jrue ran the offense better than any other "point" on the roster, defended the ball as good as anyone on the roster, and rebounded well. I couldn't be happier with his development thus far, but the anointing oil is still on the shelf.
Andre Iguodala
Much like Jrue, Andre contributes in many ways. He had a terrible shooting night but still managed to limit league-leading Danilo Gallinari to one three-pointer, drop 8 dimes and grab 5 rebounds. There's not much more you can say about Andre. He's the older, bigger version of Jrue with a more polished offensive game, as hard as that is to believe.
Thaddeus Young
Ugh. I'm so disgusted with Thad. If Jrue is the smaller version of Andre than Lou is the smaller version of Thad. Thad had yet another poor performance tonight. He shot 3-13 from the field and played little to no defense. He doesn't excel in any phase of the game, and I'm not sure how much better he's going to get. Does anyone care to make an argument against the premise that Thad sucks and he's going to continue to suck? Oh yeah? There's a comment section below.
Marreese Speights
My boy M16! He almost single-handedly won the game tonight. He's the only player on the current roster who I believe can succeed as the featured player in an NBA offense. He showed why tonight, scoring 10 points in 8 minutes down the stretch. He had the whole arsenal working -- jumpers, dribble-drives and post-ups. If not for a Knicks triple-team he woulvd've probably hit the game-winner tonight. I also love the way he's being handled. He has to earn every minute. Everyone knows he can score, but earlier this season he was forcing shots and playing zero defense. Tonight his defense still sucked, but the effort was there on the glass and he took smart shots.
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I disagree on Lou Williams. Not about his talent but on the fact that he must develop for the Sixers to be successful. His ceiling seems to be as a scoring guard off the bench on a mediocre team. I think he has more value as trade bait than as a piece in the future of a (hopefully) contending team.
The other four can easily be role players on a contending team. The problem with the NBA is that teams rarely go anywhere without a star. Let’s go John Wall!
I’m somewhat related news, I’m beginning to like Evan Turner more and more as a “backup plan” to Wall. Imagine a starting line-up with Iguodala, Turner, and Jrue: three players with the potential to fill the stat sheets. We’d still be missing the “star” factor but it’s not a bad trio to build around.
i agree with the fact that Lou Williams is good trade bait. john wall would be huge for this team, but xavier henry and evan turner would fit very well with jrue and iggy. thad MUST find his offensive game, he is getting bigger but not better. Sammy D has been hot, i feel a trade will finally formulate in the off-season
by Philly Blunt on Jan 13, 2010 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I was initially hesitant on Turner because of his similar skill set to Iguodala, but he’s a better shooter than Andre right now, so I’d be happier with drafting him if we sit around 4-6.
by Michael Levin on Jan 14, 2010 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
If he plays the way he has since coming back – he won’t be available 4-6
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, but I’d still value Wall, Favors, and Motiejunas higher than him for our team. In terms of prospectness, I’d give him 2-3. While I don’t think drafting for need is always the way to go, the pros/cons in this case are similar enough to look at team need.
by Michael Levin on Jan 14, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
It seems the Sixers are tired of losing and are looking to just jettison players and salary so it can start anew this summer when a massive crop of talented free agents hit the market.
that was from yahoo sports rumor page…. if it has any truth to it iguodala may not even be around to rationalize (although i’d take him anyway) not taking turner
by Tanner Steidel on Jan 14, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Except that the thinking doesn’t make any sense.
3 biggest ‘salaries’ – brand/dalembert/iguodala
let’s say they ALL get jettisoned
What’s left to appeal to FA’s – it’s not just about money if you are leaving the massive money on your home team – it’s about roster – and none of the top tier is going to see the sixers roster minus the 3 biggest contracts and get excited…
There was a twitter for about 2 hours that said shaq and west were out of tonights game (west has a 500K buyout for next season) that worked with any combination of 2 of the big 3 – the rumor ONLY said shaq and west were held out – nothing about hwy – but it’s been discounted
Do you have a link to the yahoo rumors page?
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Yahoo and their lazy reporting – did they actually read the source article?
This article builds off the ESPN article but Moore has a source that disputes the ESPN article which then makes the Yahoo article bogus.
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that Yahoo! article isn’t reporting anything new. I don’t think a trade will happen. I’m sticking to my guns that this team is going to make the playoffs, keep the current roster intact and start next year with the same exact problems.
Not only is it not reporting anything new – it’s linking to an article that DISPROVES the concept of the sixers making that offer…it’s like they didn’t READ the article
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
You tell us to put away the anointing oil, citing Thad as an example of getting ahead of ourselves and then you praise Speights in the same way?
Again, I am not a hater. I think he can pretty good. But scoring hides one’s overall performance. He has gotten better with his shot selection and we all know his offensive prowess. His problem, much like most of this team is at the defensive end. Still, I like what I am seeing and liking how he is earning his minutes. However, his lack of defense is a killer and even though he had the hot hand tonight in the final stretch, I don’t know if he is the best guy out there to close out.
Thad? I think we are all giving up on him much like we gave up on Brand the year before. Brand has been playing better as of late. I think as a losing team, we can at least give Thad the courtesy to redeem himself. Still, his performance this year has been discouraging.
Lou Williams is not and will never be a legitimate point guard. He is a bench player, that is it. I’m glad Jrue is seeing more time. I’m not anointing him. I just know he is/will be better than the other option we have at that position.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
I’m not “anointing” Speights just because I like his offense. He still has no chance to start on a contender if his defense doesn’t improve drastically. There’s a difference between, “I really think Jrue can be a great defender in this league,” and “This kid is going to be a superstar.”
patience
i dont undestand why people on blogs always think they can predict the future…who knows if john wall will be a savior…there have been more than a few top draft pick busts at all positions. instead of focusing on losing 2 get an unknown quantity..l why dont we focus on the players we have and making them better. u criticize lou, jrue, and andre whenever they have a bad game or two…but most of the games i watch i see that they aren’t being coached up…they are allowed to make the same bonehead plays over and over…the sixers are playing better…but the team is way 2 talented 2 be 12-26 and beaten at home by a 1 deminsional knicks team…give this same team with the same players to a coach that is more of a teacher and not a system coach…and much to your surprise all 5 of these players have what it takes to be all-stars.
lou williams an all star??
HA at what position? Opposing PG’s eat him up on a nightly basis, and he just doesn’t have the offensive game to become a one dimensional all star.
Lou Williams – at best he’s a sixth man – nothing more – but the sixers expect more – he’s also not a point guard – the sixers have put him in a role he’s bound to fail in – that’s a strong organizational move
Jrue Holiday – he’s 19 years old, youngest player in the league, playing for an idiot coach and one of the best defensive point guards in the league – already
Speights – offensively he’s great as long as you don’t care about passing, defensively he doesn’t seem to get it yet, all the warning signs about him on last years draft seem to be coming true, haviing a coach who cares not a whit about defense doesn’t help at all.
Thaddeus Young – still young (21?) and on his 3rd coach in 3 years and still playing out of position.
Just saying – these guys are not being put in positions to succeed either
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 6:45 AM PST reply actions
Agree with Lou.
Disagree with Jrue. I think he is being put in a position to succeed right now.
Disagree with Speights. For some reason his poor defense has earned him less and less minutes. So, whether or not the coach cares about defense, he seems to be getting punished for his lack of. That’s a good way to handle him in my opinion.
Agree on Thad, but still think he’s overrated.
A lot of problems can also be pinned on Iverson.
I don’t pin any problems on Iverson he’s actually been pretty good since he got here – better than I thought he would be.
Jrue Holiday is the best passing point guard on the sixers right now – passing point guards aren’t as important as gunners like williams (and green) in the Eddie Jordan system.
I think the coach now cares about defense because Ed Stefanski told him to.
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
But Jrue is still getting fair minutes.
I think the coach now cares about defense because Ed Stefanski told him to.
Whoever’s idea it was, it benefits the development of M16.
I don’t agree that Jrue is getting fair minutes – 20 MPG should be his baselline – willie green should be at less than 10 and as far as I’m concerned, if you want to start a short back court already start at least ONE guard who can defend…if you agree with lou then lou shouldn’t be starting – he shouldn’t think he’s a starter and he shouldn’t be asked to be a point – jrue is no eric snow – but starting Jrue/Iverson harkens back to Snow/Iverson
The benching ‘benefits’ Speights only if he realizes why and works at improving defensively :)
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
The effort for Speights was there last night. He has Thad syndrome. All the effort in the world and still gets beat on defense.
As for Jrue I think 15-20 is good. He’s been getting 22 since the call from upstairs.
by Jordan Sams on Jan 14, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I know that it matters who is in at the end of the game but I think starting ‘means’ something – and yes Jrue is the first gurad off the bench the past few days – which is good – but he should be starting over Lou because it’s a better defensive back court and Jordan treats starters ‘differently’ than bench guys.
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry – that’s still on Jordan
Iverson
Iguodala
Thad
Brand
Dalembert
That’s your best starting five
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
This wasn’t touched on in the recap, but although it wasn’t our first option, I’m happy with a wide open three at the end of the game taken by a guy shooting an above-average 37% from beyond and three made in the game. We found the open man, and he got a good look.
While I’d still prefer taking it to the basket, open looks are always better than contended one-handed leaners. If he hits that shot, it’s great improvisation by Speights and Iverson and a win.
I’m not – not down one at home – put the ball in the hands of someone who can drive to the basket – if carney was the second option because him shooting from the 3 was a coin toss (jordans words not mine) it’s a poorly designed play.
Iverson,Iguodala, Williams all better options (remember, if you read the research, iguodala seems to be more ‘clutch’ than a lot of nba players if you believe in that)
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
i think the sixers have overvalued all their players.andre fills the stat sheet but he is not a franchise player and they know they overpaid him. what a difference with thad this year under jordan. they need to abandon th po and let these guys run and play with that trapping defense like last year. i know personnel changes prevent them from doing that but thad and dre need to get out and run to be at their max potential.i love speights. he still young so he can work on playing d. he can score and is a huge asset to the sixers future.jrue is a good defender and will only get better. as for that rumor,yahoo is terrible,particularly mark miller,but i would do that trade and free up space for the future.to be able to rid ourselves of these 2 bloated contracts would be huge for our organization. to be able to start fresh in free agency and the draft and maybe another trade would be refreshing because these guys cant seem to put it together under jordan. that said,i think jordan is the one who needs to go!
It’s awesome when the first sentence tells you you don’t have to read the rest isn’t it?
by jemagee on Jan 14, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
In the first place Speights only got beat on defense failing to rotate to cover Sam’s man after he went off to double-team the ball away from the basket. The problem is mroe with Sam over-helping than Speights. Any time Sam helps on the ball and it is moving away from the basket, he’s allowing himself to be pulled out of the middle.
Lou hasn’t gotten into a rhythm since his injury, prior to which he was playing at an all star level. This is one player who’s game has been hurt by Iverson taking his minutes. Lou has to develop his passing skills, like AI or he is at best a sixth man. Then again, even when he was starting no one other than Brand is a post up player that needs to be served the ball. Passes to outside shooters don’t count as assists, if they dribble before a shot.
I don’t think anyone can do a proper valuation of these players given the gross incompetency of Jordan. He doesn’t play people in the right positions or with the right counterparts to be successful. Even worse, when he does put a good combination on the floor, like Lou and Marreese, or Marreeese and Brand. he forgets and you never see that again.
Thad is a three, and until you play him as a three he’s going to struggle. Andre can play three or two. Jordan thinks he has plenty of two’s with Lou and Willie, so he keeps Andre as a three. But as a two Andre is one of the best in the game, and gives the Sixers an advantage with size.
The most important point is how to develop and maximize the current roster’s potential not try to throw games to get a good draft pick. No matter who you get or how good they are, Eddie won’t play them anyway!
Passes to outside shooters don’t count as assists, if they dribble before a shot.
uhhhhh
by Michael Levin on Jan 15, 2010 1:53 PM PST up reply actions

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