My Beef with Andre Iguodala
by soman319 on Mar 23, 2009 8:50 AM PDT
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PrintBefore I get jumped on, I'll explain what brought me to write this post. I am a resident of South Jersey which means that Philly sports are the hometown team. I am a huge philly diehard when it comes to the big 3 sports of football, baseball and basketball. I don't deny that I can be as ruthless as it comes to Philly fans against their team, but I know that unlike those barbarians, I am a realist when it comes to criticism and don't outright curse out the team or call for people's heads. Now what gets me the most riled up are fans that don't recognize fault within the team. This stems from a roommate of mine who outright believes that the Sixers are one of the top 10 teams in the NBA regardless of what our record tells and the style that our offense plays. For example, he feels that after beating a team once, he'd later claim that we could beat that same team in the playoffs.
Now when it comes to players on the team, this same friend can go on to list the strengths and strengths of every player on the team. No that was not a typo, I said strengths twice. Why? Because he fails to even consider that there can be some criticism against the "star" players on the team. I am no hater but i think we have good but not great players.
Now this brings us to the main reason I am writing this, Andre Iguodala. Iguodala is an incredible athlete. He has the physical tools to be a star. He is a great finisher when it comes to driving to the hoop and unlike the previous A.I., he is not selfish. I love watching him play and when the team is running and gunning, he is lethal. So why do I have beef with him?
Unlike what my friend says and other hardheaded philly phanatics, Andre Iguodala can't be compared to the Wades and Bryants of the league. If we are just talking about a great player, than yes thats Iguodala. But when people (aka those like my friends) try to convince me that Iguodala will lead his team to an NBA Championship, I don't see it happening. He may one day be part of a team that wins a championship, but not a Dwayne Wade carrying and willing his team to a victory. My arguments?
1. He doesn't have that killer instinct. From interviews to just watching him play, Iguodala doesn't have that drive that most team center pieces should have. James, Wade and Bryant command for the ball and when the team is struggling they have the ability to carry the team to victory. This "killer instinct" is something I just don't see in Iguodala and this leads me to my second point.
2. He isn't a lights out shooter (when he needs to be). He has his games when he is on but over the past few years (I'm discarding the years with Iverson), he is still averaging less than 20 ppg. More importantly, I've seen Kobe and Wade make near impossible shots, highly contested shots and yet I can't see Iguodala making that pull up with a hand in his face. I think that's probably the reason he doesn't have that killer instinct.
For areas he needs to improve?
1. Andre's bread and butter is his dunks and finishers. Yet he is only averaging around 6 attempts a game at the free throw line. He should be getting there a respectable 9 to 10 attempts at the line and to do that he needs to drive to the basket more instead of settling.
2. He has to be that buzzer beater. Confidence plays a big part in playing well. When you are confident, you play better. Already this year we've seen two handfuls too many of buzzer beaters. Recently against the Lakers, we got slight revenge with Iguodala hitting a three in the closing seconds for the win. When it comes down to one sixer's position, Iguodala needs to have the ball in his hands, not Lou Williams, not even Andre Miller. For him to be a legitimate all-star, the ball needs to be in the hands of the team's best player.
3. He needs to be to the team Leader. Unfortunately I don't have the exact games in front of me, but I remember games where after leading by as much as a double figure, the team came to lose in the final seconds of the game. Now how is that going work if the Sixers aim to be a legitimate contender? Iguodala at the moment isn't the that leader who can will his team to victory.
So when I look back on what I wrote. I notice that I shouldn't be knocking on Iguodala but the fans who claim he is worth the money we paid for him because he is an all-star like a Wade or Bryant. I know basketball is a team game and one player can't make or break a team otherwise the team is doomed from the start. But to those fans who believe that this team will make it to the NBA Finals with Iguodala leading them, unless philly miracle occurs, I don't see this happening. Can Iguodala become that piece to surround talent with? Maybe. But with the big 3 teams of the East (Magic, Celtics, and Cavs), I don't see a way that Andre Iguodala will lead us to victory.
Note: I'm not a hater, just a realist. Everybody's entitled to their opinion and I can respect those opinions.
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First of all, well thought out post. I gotta give you props for that.
A couple of things:
1. I agree that it’s stupid to compare him to the LeBron and Kobe’s of the league. He’s not that type of player, and he never will be.
2. The killer instinct might not be as strong as LeBron, Kobe, and Wade’s, but it’s there. You gotta give credit to Iguodala for trying. I’ve seen him improve this aspect of his game over the past two years, and I have no reason to believe that won’t continue.
3. Not only does he need to get to the line more, but he needs to make them at a higher percentage.
4. Watch the Lakers game and you’ll see all of these things. Iguodala was the epitome of a go-to guy in that fourth quarter. He even topped it off with that buzzer-beater, which was highly contested.
5. Iguodala didn’t get paid “superstar” money.
6. I’ve said it all along, Iggy will never be a LeBron, a Kobe or a Wade. If he ever finds his “MJ”, he’ll be the Scottie Pippen of his era.
Thanks man
I give a lot of props to Iguodala, he has really improved his game. Like I said, even though I titled it to Iggy, I’m directing it towards the fans who believe that Iggy is the next show stopper. I saw the buzzer beater and before he did what he did I thought, “Well, great…. when have we actually won one of these?”. You say he was contested but in reality, ariza played off of him. When I meant contested I meant like Shane Battier “hand in your face” contested (haha).He got paid a significant amount in a long term deal is what I meant to say, meaning are set with Iguodala for years. I agree with you he will be the scottie pippen of his era. And you and I both want to know who will be the MJ to his Scottie?
thanks for your input
I've said it numerous times.
I wanted it to be Durant. It didn’t work out that way. Maybe Thad will develop into that type of player.
And watch that buzzer-beater again. Ariza is long, and he was all over Iguodala.
by Jordan Sams on Mar 23, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish people would realize what player Andre Iguodala is and can be…it’d be so much easier.
The ‘killer’ instinct (which is a nonsense statement to m to start with) isn’t something Andre Iguodala has ever had – learn his history – see what he’s been on teams all the way back to high school – he’s not a scorer – he’s a facilitator – he’s a defender – he’s a guy that fills up the box score without you noticing. (Except when he dunks)
Could he use some polish on finishing at the basket? Probably – is he better than he used to be – yes?
To me people have to STOP comparing him to guys like Lebron and Kobe – he’s not that type of palyer – the type of player he is doesn’t exist much in the league any more – think Scottie Pippen
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Mar 23, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions
Like I said, I wasn’t trying to knock on Iguodala. I understand that he is a piece of the puzzle but not a large piece like a lebron. The problem is, the team doesn’t have anyone else to step up. By default, Iguodala becomes that guy and people try to pass him off as the star of the team. No doubt he is a star but not the type of star that can do what the Lebrons and Kobes do.
How many ‘pieces like a lebron’ are in the league?
THAT’S the problem – it’s the problem with the sixers fans who have unrealistic expectations of Iguodala and it’s a problem with the NBA – it’s a star league – stars get the calls – you need a star to win – and usually you only get stars by being crap lucky and winning the lottery.
Seriously – does anyone remember that if the balls bounced the other way – the sixers would have had allen iverson and tim duncan on the same team – the PF that Iverson always needed and never got? How many titles would the sixers have had?
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Mar 23, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
or if we drafted Dirk instead of Hughes the year after. or Garnett/Sheed instead of Stack the year before.
by Michael Levin on Mar 23, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough. It’s about making moves at the right time. Unfortunately things haven’t worked out for the sixers.
THat was a pipe dream – as long as andre miller was stil on the team – only way to truly tank was to dump miller and they weren’t going to do that
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Mar 23, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
There were a ton of us calling for them to tank
That means no Miller, just expirings/prospects. BK dropped the ball. Before the trade the team was the worste in the league. Miler and Smith stabilized the team in a year where they should have had a good shot at a top 2 pick.
They were lucky to get TYoung at #12, but getting Miller/Smith was a mistake.
http://www.phillyarena.com - Philly sports forum/blog
Well not making the celtics move was the big mistake – i mean i think they still would have gotten thad – could you imagine that starting line up right now?
Moving Iverson was a mistake in that it was probably 2-3 years too late – i think miller/smith was probably the best available deal – though Snider backed the team into a corner on national tv
once the deal was done KEEPING miller was the mistake – they should have been shopping miller the moment they got him
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Mar 25, 2009 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind, star players don't just come in the form of a lottery.
I’d consider Monta Ellis more of a go-to guy that Iguodala and I think he was selected around pick 50.
And Gilbert Areanas was picked at 50
But those are more flukes than consistencies – you can’t depend on that as much as drafting the high talent guy…
I think Monta has some maturity issues and some gunning issues
"Someone created the box score," Morey says, "and he should be shot."
Blocked shots — they look great, but unless you secure the ball afterward, you haven’t helped your team all that much.
by jemagee on Mar 23, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
actually late in second, pick 57. we went for mr. pinball himself earlier that round.
by Michael Levin on Mar 23, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
it's possible...
but it’s hard to say. Duncan is so damn good; I’d like to see Manu playing on a team without him before passing judgment. Also, if I recall correctly, Kobe wasn’t a top 10 pick.
correct
he was number 13… that was iverson’s draft year… guys drafted before him —> Todd Fuller, Erik Dampier, Lorenzen Wright, Samaki Walker, Shareef Abdur-Raheem
by Tanner Steidel on Mar 23, 2009 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I think era where "Kobes" go unnoticed is beyond us.
Too much scouting, to much publicity. No way Kobe falls through the cracks in 2009.
A little late to this but...
I agree with most of the points in these comments. Iguodala is improving still, as he should be. He couldnt shoot for his life at Arizona but now hes making some big time shots (the Lakers shot wasnt the 1st we just lost to another last second shot every other time).
Getting steals in the draft is usually key in winning it all (i.e. Ginobili and Parker, Rondo, etc.). Thad almost has to qualify as a steal at this point already. Maybe a month ago I thought that wed trade him at some in the future because of his similarities to Iggy but thats not gonna happen now.
@Jordan: You really shouldnt be disappointed that we got Thad instead of Durant. In high school he was often spoken about in the same breadth as Oden and KD, with the assumption that they would go 1-2-3 in no particular order. He just didnt play hard at GTech, only settling for jumpers trying to show off that side of his game, which wasnt very successful, hence his drop in 10 picks. Durant does have the potential to be the star on a title winning team. He has the potential for that “killer instinct” (im with John in disliking the term). But I think Thad has the potential to be a better all-around player. Remember, defense wins championships and that is why Iggy is so important. If we dont have that always clutch go to guy, its not the end of the world because Andre can usually stop one of those in the opposing uniform.
Also, Im not worried about the current “Big 3” in the east for the future. 1.) LeBron will go to another team, which should be a contender automatically but who knows what will happen, especially if he does in fact go to the joke that pretends to be a franchise over in New York. 2.) Boston is getting very old, very quickly, and their recent injuries are just compounding that fact. 3.) Orlando should be successful for a long time because of Howard, but Im not sure if theyre even a legit shot to win this year, and when Turkoglu walks, that creates a big hole since hes their go-to guy
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