The Magic are good, the Sixers are not; final score: a lot to a little
by Jordan Sams on Oct 28, 2009 6:38 PM PDT
101 comments
- Overall, the best thing we can do as Sixers fans, is completely forget about this game, and look ahead to the home-opener against the Bucks on Friday. That said, if this team doesn't get chewed the (bleep) out on the way home, we're in big trouble, and the John Wall watch will officially begin.
- Sam Dalembert had an interesting game. He came out and took four shots in the first four minutes including an 18-foot hook shot, a dribble-drive and a long jumper. Then, right before he was subbed out he had back-to-back blocks on Dwight Howard. He is a decent shooter from the perimeter, but he needs to refrain from taking shots unless he's wide open. He had two fouls at halftime, picked up three straight to start the second half, and sat with five for the rest of the game.
- Lou Williams scored 10 points in the first quarter, and looked good doing so, but he was torched on the defensive end. He got left in the dust by a basic Jameer Nelson crossover, he failed to get out on the three-pointer for the entire game, and his double-teams on Dwight Howard were absolutely worthless. (This is something I complained about during the playoffs.) If you are going to double, don't walk over and weakly put up your arms; force the ball out of the guy's hands and hope the D rotates or foul him. The last thing you want is for the guy you're doubling to take an easy shot like he's shooting over a 6-foot garden gnome.
- Princeton Offense, where are you? The offensive sets looked the same to me.
- The perimeter defense still sucks. If the Sixers are going to go anywhere -- this year, or in the future -- they are going to have to defend the three. I'm not a defensive expert or anything, but it seems like their rotations are slow, and when they do rotate, they don't run at the shooter hard enough. I realize the harder you run at them, the more likely they are to drive right by you, but there's normally help in the paint, and dunk is worth less than an open three-pointer. In the NBA you cannot just jog at the shooter and clap your hands to distract them (This is what I do when I play) like this is some pick-up game at Mission Hills Park.
- Speaking of defense, the Sixers defense can be described in one word: uninspired.
- Elton Brand, or Elton Evans as I was calling him during the pre-season, looked slightly below-average, which is better than I expected. I expected him to come out and look like my grandpa. The explosiveness is gone, but he is still capable of making a fadeaway and playing okay defense. Regardless of how much Elton has lost physically, he has a high basketball IQ, and that makes him better than Reggie Evans -- unfortunately, it's close.
- Andre Iguodala was non-existent. He aired his first jumper, barely grazed the rim on the second, had a signature "1 for 2" from the foul-line, missed a technical free throw (which he shouldn't be taking anyway) and turned the ball over on fancy pass attempts. He also played some uncharacteristically bad defense on a few fast breaks.
- The first five off the bench, in order, were: Speights, Carney, Smith, Kapono, Green.
- This should surprise no one, but Bill Green is awful. The offense was the most stagnant when he was in the game. A specific play sums up Bill Green's night: Green dribbling at the top of the key, Thad calling for the ball to start the offense, Green still dribbling, Thad calls a little louder, Green still dribbling, Thad starts jumping up and down, Green still dribbling, Thad rips his right arm and hurls it at Green, Green finally passes the ball with about 7 second left in the shot clock.
- The Sixers lone bright spot was Marreese Speights. He rebounded better than normal, he played decent/good defense, he was efficient on offense (26 points on 11 shots), and showed some passion, which was nice. He stood toe-to-toe with Dwight early in the game, and even participated in a "let's see how close our faces can get without touching" match. If he rebounds and plays defense like he did tonight, he'll be a very important part of the Sixers this season. I told my buddy the other day that I believe M16 is the most talented player on the Sixers roster, and I stand by that. Please, please, please play stay consistent on defense.
- The game was over at halftime. It was the perfect time to play Jrue Holiday, but he was inactive. Wah-Wah.
- One note on the Magic: they're good, they're deep, and they slaughtered us in every way, shape and form tonight. Congrats to them.
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Speights and Williams both performed to or above expectations. Iguodala got his boards and assists but not his points, he only played 26 min. so Jordan didn’t give him a chance to redeem himself. Young and Brand also were disappointing. Kapono and Carney had good games, which is why the Sixers only lost by 14. Consider the Sixers outscored the Magic 37 to 20 in the final quarter- the game was a blowout, and the Magic were coasting at the end.
Really Iguodala, Brand and Young are all better than this, but they keep trying to do it all on their own. Only on a few plays did the Sixers set up Dalmebert and Speights. The Magic are a tough team to stay close to, it’s important for your team to continue to score and that is where the Sixers failed.
That’s incorrect
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
That's correct,
the above comment, that is.
by guitarmouse35 on Oct 29, 2009 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
As stated in the second to last bullet point – Holliday was inactive.
No offense to the sixers, but this is why I didn’t get league pass (and even if i had it tonight, i didn’t get home until the game was close to over and there was this small thing on FOX which showed the entire world just how good Cliff Lee is)…
I have to ask though – HOW bad was the defense in the second quarter – 40+ points is embarassing.
Jameer Nelson is on one of my fantasy teams – so that was nice…but could any team come out flatter on opening night?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2009 8:33 PM PDT reply actions
Admittedly I’m not paying attention – but could any team with such ‘lofty’ expectations come out flatter?
BTW – Chad ford picks the sixers out of the playoffs and the Pacers in
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 28, 2009 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
as does jalen rose (i don’t know who he has in but it’s not the sixers)
by Tanner Steidel on Oct 28, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions
ty lawson as of now (start of 4th): 13 pts. 5 assists, 0 turnovers… and ej puts our rookie on the inactive list in favor of royal ivey and willie green
I was just thinking that!
if we could do the draft over… but it’s too early to judge now. It, just makes it look pretty bad…
by guitarmouse35 on Oct 28, 2009 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
i didn’t mean that we should have taken lawson over holiday or even vice versa…. i’m just pointing out how dumb it is to put a rookie on the inactive list just beacuse he is a rookie in favor of 2 below average players
by Tanner Steidel on Oct 28, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions
o yea i agree 100%
the main thing i tried to get across is that rookies can produce it’s dumb to have one inactive just because he’s a rookie
by Tanner Steidel on Oct 29, 2009 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
When comparing Lawson to Holiday – please remember AGE
Lawson played 4 years in college – he probably is who he is right now and he’s already much closer to his ceiling.
Yes Lawson may be better than Holliday THIS YEAR, but it’s not about this year, it’s about career, and Hollidays ceiling for anyone who hasn’t written him off because he played out of position at UCLA is much higher than Lawson…the draft is about long term success….
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s why I said right now. I’ll still take Holiday.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
We/he should be so lucky
True, but backintheday when we were used to seeing players coming into the L with more college behind them, they still improved anyway. It’s highly likely that Lawson’s still going to improve on this year, probably for the first four years or so before he plateaus.
But even if this first game is an indication of his “ceiling,” as if to say, man, he’s not going to get any better, man, that’s pretty damned good as it is — can we really feel confident that Jrue’s likely to be appreciably better than that? Lawson isn’t just any old 4-yr college guard, he put up some historic numbers. The bar is plenty high for Jrue. At least we know the boy’s got hops :)
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn’t say he wouldn’t get better…I said he ws closer to his ceiling than a guy with only one year of college…guys get better, but there’s a reason guys like Lawson and Hansborough went where they went as opposed to when they were projected lottery picks earlier in their college careers.
One game is an indication of absolutely nothing actually…
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
One game is an indication of absolutely nothing actually…
Agreed. But it’s just too surprising to many is all.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
NOT too surprising to many, i meant.
(but youse knew that)
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
wow, that's some conviction
Why’re you so sure about this? According to Brian’s analysis (Depressed Fan), EJ doesn’t seem to have any clear bias against rookies. Certainly no you-could-be-mj-an-i’m-not-playing-you kind of bias. Why would it be critical for us to play a 19yr old with no high-level experience at point guard? A kid who has a history with bad turnovers and playing his first game against the defending world champions. Why would it be such an unbelieveable stretch to have the kid sit this game out?? I don’t get why the most natural conclusion (the 90% probability) is that EJ hates rookies no matter who they are or their readiness. Is there some other analysis you can point to that will make your logic more obvious?
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions
A. The Magic are not the defending world champions
B. Holliday is much better defensively than any other point guard no this team – he could have gotten in front of Nelson and maybe stopped him a bit.
C. Who the hell needs primo brezec active?
D. A ‘history of bad turnovers’ – dude played on year in college out of potistion.
E. If he doesn’t play he’ll never improve.
Eddie Jordan probably doesn’t hate rookies, having Holiday inactive yesterday when your back up point guard is royal ivey or willie green is inexcusable as Holiday is a better defender than Willie, Ivey, AND louis williams
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
is there a super sleuth in the house
Does anyone anywhere have access to Jrue’s turnover stats in high school? All the other numbers are easy enough to find, but what about the A/TO?
Anybody? I’m real curious.
having Holiday inactive yesterday when your back up point guard is royal ivey or willie green is inexcusable as Holiday is a better defender than Willie, Ivey, AND louis williams
AFAIK, Ivey’s known as a pretty decent defender. Right now, we can only talk with confidence about Jrue at one end of the floor (the other end’s been at best choppy). Speights should be so lucky to get the same appreciation.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure who thinks Ivey is a pretty decent defender, he’s not and he’s crappyoffensively – he’s crappy at both ends of the floor AND HE HAS NO FUTURE on a team that wants to contend for a title.
Too many people are too short sighted when looking at the sixers – as far as i’m concerned it’s about contending for a title.
Who is more likely to help this team win an NBA title in the next 5 years, Royal Ivey or Jrue Holiday?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
He didn’t play Jrue in a pre-season game against the Knicks. Obviously playing against the Magic and opening the regular season had nothing to do with his decision. I never said he should start Jrue, nor did I claim he should play significant minutes this early in the season, but it’s inexcusable to have your first-round pick inactive so the likes of Royal Ivey and Primoz Brezec can suit up. A 40-point blowout was the perfect time for Jrue to get his feet wet.
As for Eddie not liking rookies, forget the numbers. The rumors were that he doesn’t play rookies. What has he done to debunk the myth? What was the logic to benching Jrue in the pre-season? What was the logic to not having Jrue active last night? Until EJ proves the theory wrong, I’ll believe he’s biased against rookies.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Jordan – you’re wrong here – the rumors don’t count – the facts count – Eddie Jordan DOES play rookies…the numbers don’t lie – rumors do – and it was only one game.
The same ‘rumors’ that larry brown doesn’t like rookies (by the way) were discounted by derek bodner who is a mod over at realgm.com.
Rumors are exactly that, rumors, the facts indicate that Jordan and Brown have no problem playing rookies.
There’s any number of ‘explainable’ reasons that Holiday doesn’t play (not to me but to the sixers maybe) – maybe they don’t want lou to feel insecure about his job as a starter, maybe Holiday has bad practice habits and this is bpunishment.
The problem is we don’t knwo WHY he was inactive, and the sixers really should explain that because it’s VERY questionable
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
but it’s inexcusable to have your first-round pick inactive so the likes of Royal Ivey and Primoz Brezec can suit up. A 40-point blowout was the perfect time for Jrue to get his feet wet.
I’ll wager that if EJ knew in advance there was going to be a big blowout, he would’ve put Jrue on the active list. I’ll wager he hoped/expected the game was going to be closer and decided to go with his more seasoned hosses.
I wasn’t aware there was a law that goes you have to play your mid first round (i.e. non-lottery) pick in the first game of the season against one of the previous year’s finals teams, especially when he hasn’t given you reason for deep confidence. There’s plenty of time to develop this kid. Let’s give him his best opportunities to succeed.
As for Eddie not liking rookies, forget the numbers.
So that’s what we’re doing now? Going for myth and rumours over available data? I just gave a reasonable rational for not playing Jrue. Your sole counterargument is that EJ must hate rookies. Honestly, I can’t argue against beliefs held in spite of clear, hard evidence to the contrary.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
1. I’m bitter.
2. Like John said, it’d be nice to know why Jrue wasn’t active, and not some lame answer like “I was worried about his psyche.”
3. Do you really think 5 minutes of Royal in a close game is better than 5 minutes of Jrue?
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
5 minutes
3. Do you really think 5 minutes of Royal in a close game is better than 5 minutes of Jrue?
Honestly, considering the situation (1st game of the season vs one of the acknowledged best 4-5 teams in the league) and what he’s shown so far, I really think that’s reasonable (probably prudent). I don’t expect that to be true forever (or for long, for that matter).
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Why? Don’t look at the first game, don’t look at this season, look at the FUTURE of the sixers…why is giving Royal Ivey any minutes a good thing for the long term success of the sixers?
If the front office thinks this team can contend for anything but another first round loss in the playoffs this year, they shoulds tay off the drugs and get fired.
And if you give Holiday EVERY MINUTE ivey gets this year, they’ll still lose inthe first round but holiday will have a lot more experience.
The sixers can not be as short sighted as fans are
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
in the future
you want to have a kid who’s been developed the right way. we have a difference of opinion on this. you say it was pretty important to have him play ivey minutes in this game, and i think it wasn’t important at all (and in fact likely detrimental) in terms of his continuing development. you want to set your kid up to succeed, not thrown to the wolves before he’s really ready. he’s 19 w/o any high-level point guard experience. i can’t repeat that enough.
who’s got those high school TO stats?
if Jrue’s still chained to the bench a month from now, then we’ve got cause for alarm. this doesn’t mean anything in my books.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
who cares about high school TO stats, the caliber of team mate is so much lower it’s ridiculous to even think about
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
because if his high school A/T was crap (for a point guard) then he has ZERO track record of being able to keep that reasonable. And that’s kind of one of the key things about being a decent point guard, it’s not to be dismissed. It may’ve been one of the reasons he was ranked 4th in the nation in his senior year — as a shooting guard (so mebbe he really wasn’t “out of position” at UCLA — mebbe he decides he’s a point b/c he’s too short to be considered a credible starting 2).
Anyway, all that feeds to my point that we can give the guy some time to really learn the position w/o mad pressure. I don’t remember all this blather about Speights not getting to play his first game, another one-end player.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Jrue outplayed Royal in every aspect in the pre-season. If EJ thought it’d be a close game like you said, he probably didn’t plan on playing Royal either.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
This is my 1st formal post. Im sorry if I am a little winded… As a fan of the NBA and a loyal fan of the Sixers I had to get my opinion out there. This in my opinion has been one of the best front ofices and coach we have had. Now who ever has the power to make trades on this team get on your job and I need you to hear me carefully. 1st, we need A SCORER to help Iggy/Young/ andSpeights. A Josh Smith or A.I "but we been there, tried that. 2nd, We have to use are trade bait, its early in the year but we need are team to start clicking, by getting rid of Brand and Dalembert with a sprinkle of Green for a pick and a big who can run with us i.e NENE or Tyson Chandler we could possible do a better job in the paint area. 3rd, Instill some heart into the these profesionals, this is the NBA, take some pride in your profession. and if we cant get Rid of Sam/or Elton advise these two to play team ball by playing like bigs that posses that talent that these two cats have in them. Sam you are not a guard and your not ever going to be, please step your game up and play like a center, and Brand look at yourself in the mirror and say im a team player and I want to be leader of this team by setting the example of a winner. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORD. Get it together guys. You guys are on the brink of Greatness, now start playing like it.
I stopped reading after ‘best front offices and coach’
I think kamau works for the sixers.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
hopefully they have better sentence structure
by Michael Levin on Oct 29, 2009 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Tyson Chandler and Josh Smith? I think you’d be far more disappointed with them than the guys we have.
Tyson Chandler is no better or worse than Sam Dalembert overall…Smith, I don’t know how much is hype and how much is substance
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Im saying if we are going to contend. Lets get rid of guys that still potential trade value. Both sam/and elton have that. On avg if we continue to keep these 2 guys the most points these 2 can give us combined is 20 points a night and 10 rebounds. Now the trade does not need to include tyson chandler; if you can name 1 team who willing give up a decent big for these 2, name them and I wont post foolish comment anymore.
by KamauFox3000 on Oct 29, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re incorrect.
If Sam Dalembert had ANY legitimate trade value he’d already be gone…he has no value this season, MAYBE next season.
Elton Brands trade value is probably at its nadir for his career and it’s a fool he trades someone who might increase their value as they get healthier – it’s also asinine to trade him after he’s played less than half a season for the sixers.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
So your saying Jemagee that if you were to bundle a trade with Sam/and Elton right now, no team would be interested in trade? That’s crazy someone would want them.
by KamauFox3000 on Oct 29, 2009 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions
For a combined 27 million dollars (plus trade kicker) this year alone….who?
they played one game of the season and both of them had career lows last year…why in the world would you try to trade them now? why in the world would any team want to trade for them now? We haven`t even seen if they can be successful in this new system. Perhaps it`s best to just relax and watch the season playout.
Its true that this is a new season, but they are showing the same signs of inconsistency from last season. I want these guys to suceed but they are not good for this team. but your right I need to be patient and wait this out
by KamauFox3000 on Oct 29, 2009 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Please to be learning SMALL SAMPLE SIZE
Please to be learning that the sixers BEST five man rotation last year (in limited minutes) involved Elton Brand
Please to be learning that no one wanted Sam Dalembert last year and if Brand is ‘questionable’ no one wants his four year deal…
Find a deal that the other team would make that involve sam dalembert and elton brand together – i dare you.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I watched some of this game (mostly first quarter), and the sets were Princeton sets
Just very, very, very basic ones.
There’s a classic Princeton set which ends with the big handing off to the guard circling around from the right corner, then sets a screen for him to free up the guard for a 15-footer going left or a drive to the rim. I saw Brand and Lou executing that one several times.
The thing to keep in mind is that the Princeton isn’t as much a bunch of sets as it is a bunch of reads. As in, you play the defense’s tendencies and go based off them, rather than dictating where the defense goes with your actions. It’s kind of like “taking what the defense gives you” to the extreme.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
I haven’t read the ‘basketball offense’ book i got this week – but i skimmed the intro of the ‘Princeton Offense’ chapter, written by Jordan and Carrill, and the problem (I’m paraphrasing) is that it requires people to ‘react’ to what’s going on and read the defense and make movements/passes based on what they see on the floor…it requires a modicum of basketball intelligence to even do that kind of thing.
How can you run an offense that requires reading and reacting when one of your starting 5 has the basketball IQ of a preemie born 3 months early and your back up center is a defensive liability in the way Sarah Palin killed John McCains campaign?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Smarter than Sam?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I was half-assedly following this game last night—for obvious reasons, my mind was elsewhere. But I will say that the 14 point margin doesn’t do justice to how big of a blowout this ACTUALLY was.
The sixers bench is terrible, swapping out 4 for 4 and leaving Lou in is a dumb coaching move – not bringing sam back since speights poitns are all offset by god awful defense is asinine.
Eddie Jordan has an F- so far…
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
mirror
Is there a way we can see what Speight’s counterpart(s) were scoring while he was on the floor? I’m willing to bet this game his counterparts weren’t going 11/12. I’ll also bet a bunch of that Magic scoring while he was out there was on account of 3pt bombs and such that he wasn’t responsible for. Speights tends to at least make up for his deficiencies on one end (which would make him a +/- of ‘0’ for his spot), but we can’t always say the same for the other four guys. How did Iggy’s man do? Brand’s? Jason Smiths’?
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
popcornmachine.net – game flow – it should help you
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
thanks for the tip
i’ll check it out when i find some time. speaking of which, i’d better get back to being “productive.” it’s been a slice… :)
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
We’re all very critical of Speights, but name one Sixer who played significantly better D last night. Even Andre looked bad.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Holiday – oh wait that’s right.
Seriously – first game of the season – setting the tone and all that – i think the only team that has to be more upset with their first couple games (already) is Cleveland being 0-2, not having delonte west and lebron still not having the supporting cast he needs to win a title…say good bye clevelande
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m just saying, if Speights get beat once we all go crazy, but we ignore him when he does something well. His good defense out-weighed his bad defense last night — at least to the naked eye.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
And
he was cleary the most passionate player for the sixers last night.
10/11 on FG isn’t bad either.
by guitarmouse35 on Oct 29, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
he was cleary the most passionate player for the sixers last night.
So he seemed to you – comments like this bother the hell out of me – next thing it leads to is assuming that other players ’don’t care’ or ’aren’t trying’ – it’s why people like reggie evans even though he sucks
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
By the way Jordan – i know you were kidding – but even if they’re bad – they’re not bad enough to be in the John Wall sweepstakes, even in the lottery they’d be low lottery.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 9:46 AM PDT reply actions
PS – Player of the Game Mareese Speights
yes he scored a lot of points
The NET IMPACT he had on the game – when he was on the floor – the sixers were outscored by 12- that’s the same impact as Sam Dalembert and Willie Green – Iguodala was worse (dear god) at -15.
At least when Kapono (and ivey) were on the floor the sixers outscored the magic – but again – i don’t know how much of that was 4th quarter
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:27 AM PDT reply actions
Yeah, but the four players Speights was playing with had a lot to do with that. He wasn’t flawless, but it was one of his top 10 defensive/rebounding games in my opinion.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
in 26 minutes speights had 5 rebounds that translates to 7.7 per 40.
Yeah the magic shot obscenely well (not a big surprise, they were playing the sixers) but 7.7 rebounds/40 from a guy like that is a weak number.
Make no mistake I WANT this kid to succeed, but so far i’m very disappointed in his second season starting with training camp and the quotes out of his mouoth
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
a roster of all-stars
What would his points scored this game work out to per 40?
I think if this kid played defense the same way he storms offensively, we’d be giddy like Spurs fans over Blair—he’d be a bona fide all-star in the making and a dominant one at that. Right now, he keeps this up, we’re looking at a 3rd-team all-nba guy. That’s not bad. That’s not bad. Who here was predicting that when he was drafted? They can’t all be all-stars but in M16, we have an offensive bruiser who needs help (teamwise) defensively. We can keep praying he gets more consistent on the defensive end (hey, it’s still just the beginning of his second year), but even if he doesn’t get much better on the defensive end, we should still keep him (and make him play PF— his more natural position, imo— with a C who can provide better cover for him).
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
—he’d be a bona fide all-star in the making and a dominant one at that. Right now, he keeps this up, we’re looking at a 3rd-team all-nba guy.
No – we’re not, because he still doesn’t play defense, he still doesn’t show effort at playing defense, nor does he show INTEREST in playing defernse…guys who don’t play defense don’t start except in Phoenix and Golden State.
How many of Speights points came in the fourth quarter – the fourth quarter doesn’t count in my opinon – garbage time.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Well he had 13 at half, and probably 20 by the end of the third.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
17 at the end of the third – one third of his points in the 4th when the game was already decided
http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20091028&game=PHIORL
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
bingo.
there’s a beast itching to be unleashed.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
No one has ever said that Speights wasn’t a strong offensive player – everyone knows he is
The two knocks on him were
A. Defensive Effort
B. Work Ethic
Seen nothing to indicate that either of those things imprved in the off season
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
one man's garbage
y’know, there’s garbage time and there’s garbage time. if this was a game near the end of the season, magic has preferred playoff spot locked up and nothing to play for, sure, i’ll bet even the bench guys aren’t playin too hard defensively.
but first game of the season, even the subs are playin hard, all pumped up on adrenaline. having a giant lead like that just means they probably won’t risk a crazy foul, but it’s not like they would be just going thru the motions waiting for the final horn. at worst this says that speights is heads and shoulders better than one of the best teams’ scrubs. nothin wrong with that for a second year player who only avg’d 15 mins/game first year. it’s still good! still good! ;-)
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
1/3 of your points against the second string isn’t the same as 1/3 of his points against dwight howard and the rest of the ‘good’ magic players…
You don’t make 3rd team all nba scoring against second teamers
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
You don’t make 3rd team all nba scoring against second teamers
welll of course not. i’m not saying he’s going to do that this year, btw. but it sure does give a strong indication that this kid’s starter material. it’s not hard to look at this in a positive light if you’re halfway willing.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Through three quarters he had 17 points in 21 minutes on 7 shots.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
again, and was he being defended by dwight howard or ryan anderson?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Dwight. He scored at least 8 (half of his points) on Dwight.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
8 is half of 26? Ask your college for a refund.
He scored 8 while dwight was on the court in the 3rd, harder to tell about 2nd quarter overlap.
Again – he put up nice points – on 10 for 11 shooting – he won’t shoot that well consistently – that would be some kind of record
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I was referring to the 17 he scored in the first 3 quarters.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Just giving you a hard time :)
He had a good offensive game, but he’s not going to shoot 90.9% from the field the entire season…and defensively he’s still weak…that’s all I’m saying is that don’t blow out of proportion 26 points in 26 minutes, that’s an untenable number for the best players in the NBA, 1 point a minute? that’s insane.
What’s worse is that if you think about the sixers FG% last night and then REMOVE speights 10 for 11, god it’s atrocious.
All those new faces, and same basic flaws
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Net net, he's good
Boy, if that’s only a “good” offensive game with near impossible FG%, I’m scared to see what you consider a great one. Anyway, if you look at the popcorn site, it’s clear Speights held his own against the guys he was playing against (unless we’re counting the time he was on the floor with Dwight of which we can say he’s obviously not as good a center as Dwight Friggin Howard. big deal, neither is anybody else). If the job is to score more than your opponent, whether by holding your man to fewer buckets than he’s used to or via outscoring him, Speights did his job. At the end of the day, we’re free to wish for more, but that’s all you can ask. The other 11 guys who suited up needed to do their parts.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
If the job is to score more than the other team when you are on the floor – most of the sixers did terribly last night, very few players had a +/- that was positive, and Speights, Dalembert and Green were all tied for second worse at -12
Looking at a guys points and saying woo hoo – when your team gets is ass kicked is short sighted .
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
no, no
i meant play better than the man you’re guarding. just look at the popcorn link you gave me and you’ll see he did his bit. i say you’re way off if you think that -12 had mostly to do with him and not the other guys on the floor.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
And i think you’re way off praising ANYONE for the embar4assment that was last nights game, they should all hang their heads in shame
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m just willing to give credit where credit’s due. No more, but no less. For all the yakityyak in this thread (geebus, didn’t Lou have a good offensive game, too?), you’d think Speights was most responsible for the blowout when the evidence suggests he was likely the least.
Then again, maybe the focus on Speights, the effort to trivialize his contribution, helps take the focus off the guys who truly let us down, the guys we expect to play so much better, especially defending the perimeter. Therapy comes in different forms, hey, whatever gets you through.
The Bucks is a real litmus test. Hold on to yer hats, gennlemens.
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"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 29, 2009 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head I can remember Dwight sending him to the line twice, and M16 dunking over him once.
by Jordan Sams on Oct 29, 2009 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Speights shot 10 for 11 folks
That’s not a maintainable level of shooting – if he shoots 50% for a season that’s good – that’s 5 (or 6) for 11.
Last night was an anomaly in a shooting percentage
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Bu that’s like comparing apples and steak.
They’re different positions (and lou isn’t that good defensively anyway :)
Speights should be compared to Smith, Brand, Dalembert, etc…
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 29, 2009 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Speights outplayed Dwight when they were on the floor together. That’s what I saw last night. Speights made some moves and scored on Howard and drew a foul. He also defended Dwight as well as any Center in the NBA, including Gasol/Bynum. Speights is still very young and not strong as he needs to be, but he’s good enough to be very effective in this league.
Speights isn’t the problem, the problem is the team isn’t working hard on defense, and Iguodala and Young never got going on the other end of the floor. Thad had one great defensive play in the whole game. Brand was also ineffective. The bench had more player in double figures than the starting 5. Carney, Speights and Kapono outscored Young, Brand and Iguodala, it’s no surprise your team loses when your starters suck.
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