Fagan: Holiday's DNP and the Princeton Offense
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 3:05 PM PDT
27 comments
In Kate Fagan's latest blog post she answers the question everyone was asking after last night's game: why didn't Jrue Holiday play? After today's practice, Sixers coach Eddie Jordan talked about not playing Holiday. He said he felt bad he didn't get him in the game. His reasoning was that New York's guards -- Chris Duhon, Nate Robinson, etc. -- were playing at a high, intense level. Higher than is usual for a pre-season game. Jordan said he didn't feel comfortable tossing Holiday into that situation. It sounded like he was uncomfortable with it not because of potential mistakes/turnovers, but moreso to preserve Holiday's psyche. Good try. If Eddie is worried about Jrue's psyche in a pre-season game against Chris Duhon and Nate Robinson, then how is he going to feel when the regular season starts? I think this is either a lame excuse to cover up his old school approach to rookies, or there is something seriously wrong with Jrue Holiday. If his psyche is fragile enough to be damaged in a pre-season game the he should find a new career. On one play, I believe it was the second quarter, Willie Green and Andre Iguodala went up for the same rebound. Iguodala snatched it from Green -- barely -- but when he came down, he glared at Green then stole a look to the Sixers bench as if to say, "what's he doing trying to take that rebound from me?" (That's how the interaction looked from press row, about 10 yards away.) I'm assuming these are the types of interactions that Jordan would want to eliminate. Awesome that he's addressing them so early. As much as I disagree with Eddie not playing Jrue, I agree with his stance here. Most of us despise Bill Green, so I can imagine how some of his teammates feel, but that doesn't mean you glare at him for trying to take your rebound in a pre-season game. Andre is supposed to be the leader of this team, and giving Bill the "Kobe stare" isn't exactly great leadership in my opinion -- even if it is Bill Green. Jordan took the team out of the PO after the first quarter. Jordan said he is still learning how to coach this team and that the move was an "in-game feel," based on some of the Knicks knowing the Princeton. He explained that because he hasn't installed all of the options, his guys were out there without the proper counters. He also said that some of those Knicks would still know the calls for plays and because his guys weren't at the point where they could run the offense without calls (based on reads), he felt like continuing to run it would put them at a disadvantage. That all makes sense. Ehhh, I still would have rather seen them learn on the fly. This is after all, the pre-season!
0 recs |
27 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
The more Eddie Jordan talks the more concerned I become…though I’m betting that Fagan is misinterpreting the Igudala thing (the press misinterpret somethint to cause controversy? Never)
Maybe andre was looking at the bench and saying what we all know “THIS GUY IS ON THE COURT TOO DAMN MUCH”
So – if a team has some players who know the princeton offnese, the team won’t run it at all? Wow – that’s stupid Eddie….EVERYONE knows how the triangle works – but they can’t STOP IT – have faith in your system or give it up – that’s just asinine.
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 3:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So – if a team has some players who know the princeton offnese, the team won’t run it at all? Wow – that’s stupid Eddie….EVERYONE knows how the triangle works – but they can’t STOP IT – have faith in your system or give it up – that’s just asinine.
Agree.
As far as the Iguodala thing, I saw it as well, so she’s not making it up.
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know she’s not making up the event – but the interpretation – she’s using the one that provides the most ‘grist for the mill’ as opposed to just ASKING Andre about it…wouldn’t it make more sense then just pulling something out of your ass…it’s shoddy journalism…if you don’t know what it means – ask – in this day and age though – it’s come up with the idea that will sell the most papers
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still I don’t like the glare. Instead, say “Oh my bad Willie,” or run down the court like nothing happened. This goes hand in hand with the “I’m going to complain after every non-call instead of getting back on defense,” stunt that a lot of NBA players pull. I’m not in favor of either one. Do I think we should get in an argument about it? No. Is it really that important? No.
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I’m saying is that there are numerous possibilities for the ‘glare’ (someone at DF came up with an entirely different one) – but Fagan immediately chooses the most ‘controversial’ one – because she’s trying to get eyeballs – she has no way to determine if it’s the truth or not – and she has access to the players – so why not ask them?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My take
at the time was that Iguodala was like, “same team, man. why are you fighting me for the board?” Not like it was Iguodala’s god-given right to get the board to pad his stats. I did notice it, though, during the game. My motto is “When in doubt, blame Willie.”
Send GT Green packing.
by depressedfan on Oct 14, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, there’s no way of knowing if there was any animosity behind “the glare”, but I’d rather not see it. Again, it’s not a big deal, but I know from experience, when an inferior player gets “the glare” for getting in a teammate’s way for a rebound, odds are he is hesitant the next time there’s a rebound oppurtunity — not that Green rebounds anyway.
On the opposite side of the spectrum, I’m 100% sure MJ and Kobe give Green that same glare if they were in Iguodala’s situation, and that supposedly made their teammates better.
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe other teams can`t stop it because of the people running the triangle...
The difference is, the sixers don`t have anyone on their team of that caliber, and they are just learning the system.
It would be interesting, and most likely difficult to find out if Phil Jackson ever pulled an Eddie Jordan in a pre-season game when just teaching the Lakers or Bulls the ropes of the triangle offense.
by jefu on Oct 14, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think this was andre saying “See, dude just doesn’t know what he’s doing, why is he on the court”?
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 3:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That does seem more logical than, “Hey, I need this rebound for my stats.”
Send GT Green packing.
by depressedfan on Oct 14, 2009 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And also – would probably inspire even more debate – fagan should have gone this direction :)
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took it as more, “I’m better than you, don’t get in my way.”
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andre Iguodala has been a sixer for how many years now, 6, 7?
What has he EVER done to make you think he’s going to big time anyone on the team like that?
(Regardless of the fact that it is true, he’s better than willie, but hell sam is better than willie)…
Ascribing this big time mentality to a guy whose never shown it before is more of a commentary on the people analyzing the situation and their predispositions than the people itself
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I still think he complains to the refs a little too much. I’m just knit-picking.
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every team has a guy who complains to the refs a little too muc – it’s seen as a way to get ‘calls’ and respect from the refs – it’s stupid – but everyone does it – and no on on eht sixers (except maybe now brand) has any respect around the league aside from Iguodala to not get a double T.
His formative years were also spent playing with Allen Iverson who complains to the refs more than anyone – possibly EVER – in the history of the NBA – that might have taught him something that didn’t rub off well…that doesn’t strike me as big timing the team…
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 14, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll settle with what Brian said.
"When in doubt, blame Willie."
by jsams on Oct 14, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This does not do much to help inspire confidence on the direction this team is taking. I wasn’t thrillled with the Eddie Jordan hire or the Jrue Holliday draft to begin with, but am taking the wait and see approach. Reading this stuff makes me even less excited for the season to start.
by doubleh on Oct 14, 2009 5:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
a win
i know this is only preseason, and to most people, preseason means little more than nothing, but for a young team like this, i think it might be a good thing that Eddie was doing what it took to win a ballgame rather than sticking to something that wasn’t working. it at least shows that he’s willing to adapt to the game and do what it takes to put up a W. that said…
if you’re going to make mistakes, now’s the time to do it. you can’t go into the season and use games that count to learn something new. i’m not concerned as much about Jrue because he’s still SO young and raw that he has plenty of time to learn how to play the pro game- missing a game here and there is not a big deal. it can’t hurt to give him some PT out there, but it doesn’t kill him to sit and observe.
as for the Green-Iguodala situation… pretty sure it was misinterpreted, but i don’t think it would be a bad thing to be a little more fiery out there. it’s good to have a little competition from within the team so that it makes everybody want to get better- you just have to be sure that it stays constructive.
by ghsu on Oct 14, 2009 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Jrue
I do not believe the issue was Jrue could not handle it but that coach did not want to deal w/ the Nate issue now.
Until shown I am wrong, I will trust the coach that he knows what he is doing.
by DeanH on Oct 14, 2009 7:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah that nate guy sure is a wily one
if you will, recall last year and his antics with Lou.
by jefu on Oct 14, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s great – hide the untested rookie during pre-season when games don’t count – then he’ll RELLY be ready to face ‘the great nate’ come regular season.
JESUS CHRIST it’s nate robins – he’s a circus freak side show
Don't frack with me or you'll get a punch in the kidneys...you've been warned
by jemagee on Oct 15, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also is a thief. Totally stole the Dunk contest from Iguodala and Howard. I mean, I could probably jump over Howard if I was allowed to propel myself over his back!
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." - Wilt Chamberlain
by soman319 on Oct 15, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nate didn’t steal it. Kenny Smith lobbied for it, which is why I lost all respect for him. Nate tried to make the same dunk like 10 times before he got it! Seriously, he should have been disqualified just for that.
Iguodala won’t do a dunk contest anymore because of that nonsense. He put on a great show and deserved to win.
Kenny Smith is an A$$.
by RickoT on Oct 15, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iguodala, Jrue and abandoning the PO to win.
First off Iguodala and the glare. When you go for a ball and a team-mate is trying to grab it from you, how do you feel? “WTF pal? I got it!” The look to the bench is telling them, why is this guy on the court? He shouldn’t be fighting with a team-mate for the ball. Kind of obvious. As soon as you see that your teamate has the ball, you let go, if you don’t you’re stupid. End of story.
Not satisfied with the Jrue DNP explanation. I want to see him in these situations, I want him to experience NBA pressure. I want to see how he responds. Yes, he’s young and he may not be ready, but let’s give him a chance and see. Eddie has a history of doing this with rookies. It’s one thing that I really disliked about Larry Brown, Mo Cheeks and now Eddie. Not playing them slows their development more often than not. Considering he’s playing behind Ivey and the aforementioned Green, it’s also short-sighted.
Either Jrue is ready to play in the NBA or not. Jordan needs to know and the team needs to know now. He is very young, and there’s no shame in him not being ready, but find out now so the team can decide how best to develop him. How much better would Thad Young be if in his first season he was getting regular minutes. Talented players find their way, if you give them the time to figure it out!
Abandoning the PO. Since the team is only learning it and it’s intricacies, and Larry Hughes and Chris Duhon knew the plays better, it makes no sense to run it, not when you’re players are more talented and can break them down anyway! The Sixers have a lot of talented one on one players- it’s why they can win a lot of games. The ultimate point of all this is to win, not run the PO, the PO is for when they can’t break down their defenders!
Once they know the PO in and out, know all the variations they would be able to use it and score. No point in running it when you the team doesn’t know all the counters! It’s only been two-three weeks right? They don’t even know all the moves yet. Makes sense to me.
by RickoT on Oct 15, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree
Agree with everything you just said. If the other team knows your offense better than you, why run it?
by philsfreak6 on Oct 15, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
door number 4
Here’s another reasonable way to look at it:
Eddie has said himself that it takes most of the first year for the guys to get the system. The Spurs also have a system that takes quite a long time to master as do a few other teams. If EJ wants to roll with the guys who he figures has the shortest/shallowest curve to climb, then that naturally leaves Jrue out. He’s a pup, first year in the nba and he didn’t play point guard last year. Barring injury, he’s just not going to see the floor much except in blowouts. He hasn’t learned to be super careful with the ball around gambling ball hawks yet, so let him pick it up under less pressure. Give the bulk of the preseason time to the guys you feel have the best chance to master the system in the shortest amount of time. Right now the team’s at the point where they barely get the basics, nevermind all the options. It’s going to take a few more months before this stuff become instinctual (of any offensive systems, this one just can’t afford guys hemming and hawing over what to do next).
This is the first year the PO’s being installed, give it some time to settle in, let Jrue get wet behind the ears and next season Jrue can challenge for a starter’s role.
p.s. Didn’t Brian at Depressed Fan do a full review of Eddie’s handling of rookies? I don’t think there was a single deserving rookie who was stymied.
p.p.s. Didn’t Greenie come up the third most respected player on the team in a team vote? Now maybe Iggy didn’t cast his vote for Bill, but the look could’ve come out of general frustration, too (combined with a naturally petulant nature).
---
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." --Yogi Berra
by wryomatic5000 on Oct 15, 2009 8:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Liberty Ballers
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
