Raymond Felton
Chad Ford writes for ESPN as their basketball 'insider'. Fords insight and insider information has always struck me as bollox for lack of a better word. In a long rambling poorly organized article regarding 'name' players that could be traded early in the season there was an interesting mention. (This article posits that because it was quiet in the off season it means lots of trades will happen during the season, I'm not sure how the corollary works, but that's what he said).
Anyway, buried in this group of players who have no interest to me coming to the sixers is the name Raymond Felton. Now I know Felton is no great shakes so far in the NBA (playing for one of the worst run franchises in the NBA, 'youth or not') but he plays point guard and he's currently better at point guard than any 'point guard' on the sixers roster (I do not believe that Louis Williams is or ever will be a point guard). Felton is an RFA after this year so obtaining him for a one year audition shouldn't cost too much and Larry Brown loves those players who play the right way, and you know he's calling the shots in Charlotte so you might be able to get Felton for a relative cheapness.
Anyone interested in that?
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It'd be worth a look
depends on what we would give up though.
Where will you be when the Sixers hoist the Larry O'Brien trophy? Hopefully Liberty Ballers.
by jsams on Oct 16, 2008 8:20 AM PDT 0 recs
What would you be willing to give up?
I’d give them willie green (i’d give willie green for a bag of doritos), I’d offer them Jason Smith (sorry was never that impressed and with Speights there’s just less minutes for him) but keep in mind who is coaching the team. He’s a win now ‘right player’ kind of guy. Does he have interest in guys like rush or royal ivey – you never know – do the bobcats have a ‘bad’ contract they want to get rid of, these are not questions i have the answer to. If Brown has soured on someone though the player should be cheaply available
by jemagee on Oct 16, 2008 9:04 AM PDT 0 recs
idk
i don’t know if its right ot off-handly say that raymond felton is better than andre miller. maybe you meant looking several years into the future or ‘discounting andre miller…’, something like that. but last year, felton only shot about 41% from the field (to milller’s 49) and miller is a career 45 shooter. granted, miller isn’t a long range threat, but felton doesn’t exactly light it up from deep either. miller always has struck me as a great decision maker and distributor,too. not saying felton isn’t, but what’s the marginal upgrade by switching one great distributor for another, assuming theyre both great?
but i too have always liked felton and he is a great young talent that charlotte has. young talent doesn’t come cheap though. charlotte is thin upfront and doesnt have a whole lot of up and coming bigs. i see them asked for speights at the least. prolly add in a quality wing or guard. but unfortunately, the sixers as they are assembled right now, dont have a lot of quality trading chips. the team prolly wants to hold onto Thad. because a) he’s good and b) they really dont have anyone who’s a threat to steal his place in the long run. I imagine other teams think Willie Green is as good as we think he is. and the team may also want to hold onto Lou Williams
But, to sum up, if the Sixers really wanted Felton, it would prolly be Speights + Lou Williams or Thad Young and there would be some filler to make the cap work
As for Charlotte wanting to sell because Felton’s an RFA, remember, regardless of the player’s desire, Charlotte can lock him up. I think it was Olowokandi some years back who desperately wanted to leave the Clips, but knew as an RFA, the Clips would match any offer and make him come back, so Kandi signed a one year deal to take him through that year and the next year he became an UFA. Ben Gordon is doing the same in Chicago right now I believe. But these are rare instances of players and teams coming to impasses during contract negotiations. As far as I know, Felton doesnt have anything specifically against Charlotte and the team may decide to hold him as their PG of the future. he’s been inconsistent, but when he’s on, you’re right, he really is talented.
And DJ Augustine may never develop. so the Bobcats may not wanna sell on Felton just yet.
by dp8039 on Oct 16, 2008 9:22 AM PDT 0 recs
Not sure where I said he’s better than Andre Miller
Andre MIller is not a long term solution at point guard in my mind and the sixers have no other legitimate options in my mind, if Felton can be had cheap, he’s worth a look.
Felton is an RFA after this season, so the Bobcats don’t exactly have a lot of time left to decide on Felton.
But, to sum up, if the Sixers really wanted Felton, it would prolly be Speights + Lou Williams or Thad Young and there would be some filler to make the cap work
There’s no way in hell Felton would cost that much or any team would pay that much value for a guy who is in the dog house
by jemagee on Oct 16, 2008 10:06 AM PDT 0 recs
In the post, you said, about Felton, “but he plays point guard and he’s currently better at point guard than any ‘point guard’ on the sixers roster”. Like I said above, I think you meant either looking in the long-term or just forgot to preface your comment by mentioning ’besides Andre Miller…"
and as for felton’s cost, imagine using a very early draft pick (i believe like 4th overall, something like that, at any rate, top 10), investing so much time and effort, making him the point guard of the future. statistically, he’s performed ok and shown flashes of being great. and now some other team wants him. what would you ask for? Imagine if the Bobcats came calling for Iguodala and said “We’ll give you Shannon Brown and Nazr Mohammed”. Now, I know Iguodala is better than Felton, I’m not saying theyre equals, but you get the idea.
i don’t care how great Speights’ workouts and preseason have been. at this point, he’s a middle-first round draft pick who has done nothing at the NBA level. If he plays well, that’s a different story, but he hasn’t yet.
what would you pay for felton? it’ll take more than just ‘the spare change under the sofa’ approach to get him. he’s really the only viable pg on their roster now that knight is gone, unless you think they’d just be cool with starting augustine from day 1 (which they won’t be)
all that said, since they drafted augustine, i think in the next year or two (assuming augustine plays well, which is a big assumption to make) they will look to trade felton. i just think it’ll cost closer to sticker price. even if the ’cats are looking to move felton, there are a ton of other teams that would take their chances on a young pg. that could also drive up the price for the Sixers.
by dp8039 on
Oct 16, 2008 12:30 PM PDT
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yeah
i wouldnt even trade lou-will for felton straight up
Where will you be when the Sixers hoist the Larry O'Brien trophy? Hopefully Liberty Ballers.
by jsams on
Oct 16, 2008 7:39 PM PDT
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i'm not saying i would do it either
i’m just saying thats what i think it would cost. the sixers really are at a disadvantage because they don’t have a whole lot of tradeable chips, esp. when you start earmarking guys like lou and thad as untouchable
by dp8039 on
Oct 17, 2008 5:37 AM PDT
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I did mean after mimller, that’s my bad.
But what you’re forgetting is that the bobcats don’t have a year or two, not really, they have to decide now or he’s going to sign with someone else next season, after this season (at least according to Chad Ford) he’s a restricted free agent.
Once a player plays one NBA game, where he was drafted means absolutely nothing…unless you are gilbert arenas and then it’s a chip you carry on your shoulder forever for reasons no one understands.
Plus, let’s not forget the Larry Brown factor…does anyone doubt that he’s going to run that franchise the way he wants into a ‘win now’ kind of franchise to rebuild his tranished image (after bad ends in Detroit and the horrible events in the Knicks) without any concern about how he leaves the franchise once he does leave. Larry Brown is all about Larry Brown, and that can work to the advantage of teams dealing with the Bobcats. I’m not saying offer nothing, but I’m saying I think that the Bobcats might take less than market value for Felton if push comes to shove.
They have to decide this year whether he stays or goes, and if it’s the trade deadline, they ain’t getting much of anything…so if they are going to move him and get something for him they have to move soon.
But I could be wrong…I think saying ‘he was the fourth pick in the draft’ has no value and holds no water any more. Darko Milicic was the second pick in the draft,, so what? Adam Morrison, anyone think he has ‘3rd pick’ trade value any more?
Thad Young would be a top 5 pick if his draft were redone…draft pick position is meaningless in terms of player value once they play and establish what they are and aren’t on the court, and if Brown (and by extension the bobcats) are down on felton, then his value is down because he’s a guy they don’t want.
by jemagee on Oct 16, 2008 2:11 PM PDT 0 recs
true, in an economic sense, sunk costs don’t mean a thing in decision making, so relative draft position shouldn’t make a difference going forward. but, in a different light, i think there’s a sense of GMs, coaches and other personnel decision makers not wanting to admit that they’ve ‘wated their time’ or efforts or draft picks or whatever on players, so they aren’t willing to give up that easily. for instance in baseball, pat burrell is playing well now, but a couple years ago, he had some absolutely dreadful performances, but the team kept starting him because they paid him so much. same with adam eaton. now, that doesn’t make the decision right. but those types of decisions really do happen.
and i think you underestimate just how bare the bobcats roster is at point guard. aside from felton’s absolute value, which it seems the two of us can’t agree on anyway, his relative value to the team is very high. the bobcats really couldn’t afford to trade away felton now even if they wanted to. and if they did trade him, they would need a point guard in return. there’s no way the sixers would give up miller right now, so the sixers would need a three-way deal to work this because at the end of the day, the bobcats need a point guard, no matter how much we disagree on Felton, or Young, or Speight’s value.
and about larry brown, he’s not known for playing rooks a whole lot, so augustine may get less time than he would under a ‘normal’ coach, which would only increase felton’s relative value to the team
and felton’s a RFA, so while the cats should decide what their plans are with him, they dont have to. they have the right to match any offer given to Felton and can drag him back kicking and screaming if they so choose. you’re right, they should use this year to decide what they’ll do at point, but it’s very easy for them to keep him. i dont think they’ll be pressured to deal him or anything. its not like hes a disgruntled Unrestricted Free Agent to be who is asking for a trade. and as an aside, if i were Charlotte’s mgmt, i would keep him, pretty much for the same reasons why you want him brought to philly.
and i’ve asked you this in passing before, but considering that you feel that Speights + Williams or Young is too much, what would you trade to Charlotte for Felton?
by dp8039 on
Oct 16, 2008 4:41 PM PDT
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Is the GM who drafted Raymond Felton still running the Bobcats? I personally believe one of the reasons LB took a job like that is because he’ll be given free reign to make moves – he’ll call the shots like he did when he was here and Billy King was ‘the GM’ doing Larrys bidding.
Larry Brown has only been there for one draft (was he even hired before the draft) so the only ‘guys’ there I think are safe in terms of ‘unproven’ are this years draft.
I’ve been a huge Gerald Wallace fan for few years, gave me some great fantasy points when no one expected him to do squat
by jemagee on Oct 16, 2008 5:33 PM PDT 0 recs
Alright, I'll bite
Who would you give up? I mean just saying you would like to pick someone up with some upside in a percieved weakness is easy to say ‘sure, I’ll get him’. But who do you propose would be the trade bait to reel him in.
Also, I am curious what exactly you are looking for from the 1 spot? I mean, yeah, everyone wants a point guard who can dish, score at will and play solid D, but what strengths are you most desperate for? Iggy can spread the ball around, that much seems obvious. Can he run the half court offense? If that is a yes, or a part of the time, you really don’t need the traditional point guard type as much. Roy is a prime example of that, and that’s why Bayless was such a good draft pick for the Blazers. The guy can bring the ball upcourt, he can defend a fast point guard and has good size in doing so, but he is a score first guy. That is fine because Roy can run the set. Now that being said, how is Iggy at such a task? How is Lou-Will at defending the 1 spot? Is he a strong scorer/slasher type? How well can he create his own shot? How does Willie Green have a roster spot (He was on my fantasy squad last year, obviously a deep league, and I had to drop him for someone who never saw playing time just because Green was so volatile).
I like the spot you guys are in. Everyone is trying to cash out their contracts for this year’s free agency. You guys won’t have any wiggle room if I am right, so you get to trade an expiring contract in Miller (if you so desire) and you can probably get a nice piece in exchange for a team chasing Lebron or someone like that. Only a few teams will get the big free agents that lots of them are seeking, but you guys get to play the other side of the ball, giving someone a shot at the gold, but taking what you want from them in order for them to do so. That bing said, if New Jersey and their undisguised attempt at getting Lebron, gives up Devin Harris for Miller’s exiring contract, that would be unbeatable. I have a thing for Harris, which is why I say such things. I really wanted the Blazers to knab that guy, but it looks like the mish-mash of point guards might be just what is needed there.
So what is it that you’re really after in a point guard?
Sergio will explode this year as the best NBA player ever and will take revenge impregnating all Portland and Blazers with the "chocolate" word.
-Almart1
by einman77 on Oct 16, 2008 6:30 PM PDT 0 recs
I already said who i’d give up
First thing I’d like in a point guard is A POINT GUARD
Louis Williams was never a point guard until the sixers decided to make him one – his basketball formative years were spent worrying about scoring, not passing, not creating for others but creating for himself…he is not nor will he ever be (in my opinion) a championship caliber PG any more than Sam Dalembert will figure out the basics enough to be an all star center.
Andre Miller is going to leave, that’s my opinion.
So – who you got – who runs the point next year – to me – you’ve got no body
So find some body – jason smith is a disposable piece even before the arrival of speights and his injury, if he wasn’t white no one would notice him…he’s a phildelphia special but he’s slow laterally foul prone and soft…don’t want him on the sixers any longer…
I’ve made my intentions clear as to what type of player i would and wouldn’t give up for Felton, and that I don’t think it would take much and that you could take advantage of larry brown and his ‘play the right way’ veterean preference.
He’s dumb enough to think “I did it with eric snow i can do it with anyone”
by jemagee on Oct 16, 2008 7:46 PM PDT 0 recs
Is this what you sugessted?
I’m not sure Larry brown would go for it. I also don’t really think you need a project point guard, which is what Felton would be. I would think something like this would be a little better. You would have a guaranteed big 3 that will give almost any team match-up problems, plus, you could get reunited with an old friend. New Jersey gets to take a swing for Lebron as well. Also, Williams is trade resricted, so it seems like whether you like him or not, you might be stuck with him.
Sergio will explode this year as the best NBA player ever and will take revenge impregnating all Portland and Blazers with the "chocolate" word.
-Almart1
by einman77 on
Oct 16, 2008 8:40 PM PDT
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