BlogsMoving On - Free Agency
by jemagee
on Jun 29, 2009 1:29 PM PDT
272 comments
Ok...I'm not sure about all of you, but I feel like the 'drafting Jrue Holiday' debate has been beaten to death and no one has won or lost because no one could win or lose. It takes maybe 3 years to figure out how guys are really going to turn out - especially drafted that low. So until then, there are other issues the sixers have to deal with.
272 comments | 1 recs
The Jrue Conflict
by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsMichaelBourn
on Jun 27, 2009 8:53 AM PDT
87 comments
At 9:04 PM on the better coast, David Stern announced we had taken Jrue Holiday.
I assume you knew this. I was furious. As Jrue kept falling past the Bucks, the Pacers, the Suns, I grew more and more wary that we'd take him if he fell to us. Lawson and Maynor were sitting there, ripe for the picking, but we opted for the 6'3" freshman "point guard" from UCLA. I'll do my best in this post to outline some clear reasons why I don't like this pick (one of which is to stir up the pot since Jordan is riding the Jrue Holiday bandwagon sipping on margaritas in his UNLV speedo). I won't talk about his poor outside shooting or weak ballhandling skills specifically, because he has a chance to develop them, but they are worth thinking about.
- Allow me to first make clear the fact that I don't dislike Jrue Holiday. In fact, I think he has a good shot to be one of the top two or three point guards in this draft when we look back in 10 years. I also believe that getting a guy with this much potential at pick 17 is a steal, and a great value pick. With that in mind, the rest of the bullets will attempt to convey why I don't think he's the right fit for this team right now.
- Jrue Holiday didn't play the point guard position in college. Somehow, people are commending him for going to UCLA and playing out of position despite knowing Darren Collison is the point guard for Ben Howland's snail offense. He knew he was only going to stay in school for one year, but decided he'd like to spend that year at the 2-guard, an unnatural position for Holiday. I don't see the reasoning here. Why wouldn't he, like Tyreke Evans, go to a school where he'd get a shot to play the position that he's believed to play as a professional. (Hypothetical and extremely unrealistic situation alert) If you're the best criminal lawyer prospect that only has to go to school for one year (I know, right?) before you can go out and practice law, you wouldn't go to a school where there's already a criminal lawyer and practice maritime law just for kicks. Awful analogies aside, he should have been playing the point guard position somewhere to get ready for the role he'll take on as a pro.
- As a shooting guard for Ben Howland, Jrue played 27 minutes a night, and scored 8.5 PPG with a 3.7 to 2.1 A/TO. He shot a solid 45% FG but only 31% from beyond. For the number one high school prospect, that is severely underperforming. Some say this is the nature of the UCLA offense. On the east coast, I didn't get to see Holiday as much as I'd like, but I did see about 5 games and I was totally unimpressed. He disappeared for long stretches, didn't demand the ball offensively, and didn't look comfortable out there. It's only a couple games, yes, but I like to see a player on the court before blindly trusting the experts (although I'm confident most of them are smarter than I). One argument I've heard out of the pro-Jrue camp is that this should draw comparisons to a freshman Russell Westbrook. I'd like to dispel this notion before it gains too much speed.
- Westbrook had much less hype than Holiday coming into his freshman year, but both players were listed as shooting guards. Westbrook's freshman year was awful, playing only 9 minutes a game because he had Josh Shipp, Arron Afflalo, and the same Darren Collison playing in front of him. In the first game of his sophomore season, Collison went down with an injury. So Russell was thrust into the starting lineup at the point, and he thrived until DC was healthy and relegated to the bench. But Westbrook's play forced Howland's hand, who after a few games, brought him back to the starting lineup to play the 2 guard. When Westbrook came out after his sophomore season, he could play both guard spots, and put up pretty good numbers doing it (13, 4, and 4 in 34 minutes per). Holiday really hasn't shown that he can play either guard spot at a high level and didn't come back for his sophomore season like Westbrook did, so he's a much less known commodity. For every Russell Westbrook, there's a million more guys like Keyon Dooling, Randy Foye, Rashad McCants, Shaun Livingston, Dajuan Wagner, and Will Avery. Westbrook and Wade are the exceptions rather than the rule, and it's unfair and unrealistic to think that just because they both went to UCLA and measure at 6'3" that Holiday will be anywhere near Westbook's production for the next few years.
- Last offseason, we signed Elton Brand to a 5 year, $82 million dollar deal to be our best player and lead us to a championship. Sane people on this planet that have ever watched basketball are not ready to give up on Brand in Philadelphia after an injury riddled 29 games and two head coaching changes. By the time Holiday is even close to being ready to contribute as a starter, Brand will be in the 4th year of his deal, and will turn 33 during that season. I have no idea what will happen until then, but his injuries have been a concern, and hopefully by then he'll have strung a few healthy seasons together. But if he falls off the cliff in his production at 32, then Holiday will not only have to contribute as a starter, but as one of the two or three go-to guy's in this offense, which is something that he hasn't shown he can do.
- With Thaddeus, Iguodala, and Speights, this team has a big window to try and win. But if Elton Brand is going to be the centerpiece of this team on its way to a championship, Holiday was not the pick here. This was not a "Win Now" pick. I don't think we would be winning a championship if Lawson was our starting guard, but I think we'd contend, and put ourselves in good position to win next year. If Thad keeps developing and Speights works on his defense, we could potentially be championship contenders next season with the right guy running the show. They're both going to want their money when Jrue is ready. Add Iguodala's fat contract and we're looking at a lot of cash devoted to 4 guys just when Holiday is ready to get in the pool. Holiday will be 20 next season. He's not the guy that can lead this team to a championship right now. Ty Lawson could have been. I don't think just because Lawson left as a junior that his development has leveled off and he's reached his ceiling. True, Holiday has more potential, but his floor is also much lower than Lawson's. I think that Lawson will end up being the better pro, especially sitting behind Billups in Denver for a year or two, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Holiday is. This is the culminating point of my argument. Not that Holiday was a bad pick at 17, or that he'll be a bust in the NBA. But for this team assembled right now, he's not the guy that can get us to where we need to be.
87 comments
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Who is Jrue Holiday?
by jsams
on Jun 26, 2009 4:15 PM PDT
10 comments
The moment the Sixers selected Jrue Holiday, I began exchanging e-mails with the blog manager over at Bruins Nation -- the SBNation UCLA Bruins blogs. Turns out there has been some controversy Bruin' (Damn, I'm good) in regards to their main blogger's "strange hatred of Jrue Holiday". When I asked him to answer a few questions about Jrue Randall Holiday, he referred me to a "more mellow" blogger when it comes to the Holiday situation.
Without further adieu, here's Ryan from Bruins Nation.
LB: Did Jrue perform better than his 8-3-3 numbers indicate? Worse?
Ryan: It was really dependent on the game. The tools are there, no doubt and some games you would see them. There were some games where Jrue was all over the court, defending, rebounding, scoring, passing. There were also other games where Jrue would get frustrated, get torched defensively, turn the ball over at an alarming rate and struggle to put the ball in the basket. It's really tough to say whether or not he was better than his 8-3-3 numbers indicate because half of the time he was, but other times he was worse.
LB: What are Jrue's strengths?
Ryan: He's got a great body for a point guard. At a very long 6'3'', he's going to be able to match up with just about anyone in the league and will have a size advantage over most. His length causes problems on defense, especially on smaller guards as he disrupts opposing point guards in their attempts to initiate the offense. He has good ball handling skills and shows a good feel for the game, especially in the open court. His biggest strength is probably his ability to finish around the rim. While he can, Holiday is not the type of guy who will throw it down when he goes to the rim. Instead, he's able to weave his way past shot blockers, go with a tear drop over shot blockers and can finish with either hand.
LB: Weaknesses?
Ryan: Jrue needs to improve his jump shot. His mechanics aren't bad, but they aren't consistent. He has the tools to be a very good shooter, but it will take some work. He also certainly needs to mature. Against some better teams, he was taken out of his game by their skill and strength. When he got beat a few times defensively, he tended to become a tentative defender and lose his confidence. The truth is, he has the maturity of a 19 year old. That's not too bad considering he is only 19, but an 82 game season isn't the best thing for a kid looking to mature. He has a good family and isn't a bad kid, but the fact is that he is a kid and at times, will act as such.
LB: UCLA has had a handful of unpolished, athletic guys who turned out better than expected in recent years. See: Farmar, Ariza, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, Westbrook. Holiday seems to fall in this same category. Do you see him developing as well as these guys?
Ryan: I think Jrue can develop as well as the guys you mentioned, but certainly not as quickly as them. Of those players, only Ariza played a single season of college ball and it took him some time to break out. The other players all made solid contributions within the first year or two and while Jrue can make a contribution, he won't live up to his potential for a few years. Ben Howland's system is extremely effective for the college game and while it doesn't let all players put up huge numbers, it prepares players well for the pros. Holiday's skills have been refined under Howland and he can outproduce his college numbers, but it will take some time first.
LB: Blogging aside, as a Bruins fan, what were your feelings about Jrue Holiday in his one season at UCLA?
Ryan: I know some UCLA fans have less than favorable feelings towards Holiday for some of the remarks that may have come out of the Holiday camp, but I don't harbor those same feelings. While I don't have the same attachment to him that I have for guys who were Bruins for three or four years, some of the missteps that caused some fans to turn on him were a result of questionable people around him, in my opinion, and more than anything, immaturity on Holiday's part. He didn't live up to expectations that many would have for a High School Player of the Year, but he made his contribution despite playing out of position and I still consider him a Bruin. I'll be rooting for him in Philly.
LB: How is Jrue off the court? Good character? Work ethic? Bright kid?
Ryan: As has been the theme thus far, immaturity describes him pretty well. The positive side to all of that is that it's something he will grow out of and I think he's a pretty good kid. He has a good feel for the game and a high basketball IQ. By all accounts, he works his tail off in the offseason and does so in games when he's not downtrotten, a result of immaturity. While he may have some issues the first year or two as he matures, if you are willing to wait a few years, I think you'll have a high character guy who works extremely hard.
LB: Anything else us salivating Sixers fans should know about our new point guard?
Ryan: I think you guys got an absolute steal at #17. Jrue's talent level is far above that of a #17 pick and if you're willing to be a little patient then your patience will be rewarded. While Eddie Jordan will likely bring his Princeton offense with him, I don't see that stopping you from getting into the open floor on stops, where Jrue can shine. For the first couple years, he's going to have some trouble in the half court as he works on his jump shot, but I think that he will become a good half court player eventually. I think it would be best if you resigned Andre Miller or another veteran point guard so Jrue can come off the bench for 15 minutes a game early on and learn the game, then take the starting spot over in a year or two. All in all, a great pick by your Sixers.
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Big thanks to Ryan for answering my questions.
10 comments
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Reaction: Sixers draft Jrue Holiday
by jsams
on Jun 25, 2009 11:17 PM PDT
105 comments
Well, the NBA draft is officially over and I am quite pleased with the end result. As I stated 24 hours ago, the NBA draft is a special day for me -- a "Holiday" if you will (Sorry, I had to get that out of the way early.) -- so turning off the television and thinking to myself, "What a great night!" carries a lot of weight. That said, the evening didn't start out as peachy keen as it seemed. Let's flashback to 6:04 p.m....
jsams: We better take Maynor or Lawson, preferably Maynor.
chillicothe20: I feel the same.
jsams: We won't take Holiday, fear not.
TAFKAMB: I'll die if Holiday goes to us.
tsteidel: I'll cry.
jsams: Maynor, has to be.
(The pick is in -- PG Jrue Holiday)
Sexy T-Rex: oh ****
jsams: f me
tsteidel: and i'm dead
TAFKAMB: Kill me
Sexy T-Rex: I didn't want Holiday at all
chillicothe20: Damn it
TAFKAMB: hate this... hoping for a trade
tsteidel: I've lost all faith in ed
Wow, quite the reaction from the Sixers faithful -- me included. Things have changed since then. As I do with every move the Sixers make, I slowly convinced myself that it was for the best. For better or for worse, Jrue Holiday is a Philadelphia 76er. In the few short hours since he shook David Stern's hand and threw on the glorious 76ers hat, I've fallen in love with the former UCLA Bruin, and I'm going to do my best to convince you to do the same.
105 comments
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Jrue Holiday it is.
by jsams
on Jun 25, 2009 6:21 PM PDT
281 comments
More later...
281 comments | 0 recs
2009 NBA Draft thread + Updated LB Mock
by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsMichaelBourn
on Jun 25, 2009 2:46 PM PDT
417 comments
Ok, so I wanted this to be the game thread but some dude stole my idea. I'm having a 12 person family dinner at Chickie's and Pete's that will be running up to draft time, but my brothers and I will be out of there as soon as possible. I figured that since there were a million things that happened since Tanner and I went to work on our big 2 round mock that it was time to pump out another one. There are infants running around and I'm making everyone late for dinner, so I apologize if it's not up to journalistic par. I'll be updating throughout. Hit the jump.
417 comments
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'Twas The Night Before Draft Day...
by TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsMichaelBourn
on Jun 25, 2009 12:04 AM PDT
64 comments
...When all through the house, not a creature was stirring EXCEPT every GM, fan, blogger, player, agent, newspaper columnist, novelist, homeowner, sheppard, and DKV Joventut.
Only a few precious hours left and a lot can happen before Big Dave struts to the podium. After the jump, we'll take a peek at some rumors and how they affect our boys, as well as target some players that could fall to the Sixers at 17. JUMP!
64 comments
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2009 NBA Draft (Pre-Draft Thread)
by jsams
on Jun 24, 2009 9:00 PM PDT
55 comments
It's only 9 o'clock on the west coast -- I don't care -- it's midnight somewhere. Therefore; I officially declare this.. DRAFT DAY! I'm stoked. I've been waiting for this day since the final buzzer sounded in the Sixers season. After all, it is my second favorite day of the year. Here's my top 5, in order:
- The NFL Draft
- The NBA Draft
- NBA and MLB Trade Deadlines
- NBA, MLB, NFL opening days
- Thanksgiving Day Football
(I think that my top five speaks volumes about my sports life. None of the major championships are enjoyable to me, because my teams are never in them! Therefore, I resort to days like opening day and the draft to provide me with sports ecstasy for a couple hours.)
Maynor, Lawson, Flynn, Jennings -- a million names are running through my head. A million scenarios are running through my head. Will Ed Stefanski move up? Will he move down? Will he acquire a second rounder? Will Sam Dalembert be a Sixer by the end of the night? It's safe to say I'm jacked.
Anyway, to the point of this post. This will be a 24-hour draft thread. From midnight to midnight, this is you're forum to discuss all things NBA draft. I took the day off work. I plan on sitting on my laptop from the time I wake up tomorrow, until the time I go to bed. So, if you want to talk about anything tomorrow (today), I'll be happy to talk. I'm sure I'll be watching Saved by the Bell and Fresh Prince re-runs leading up to the draft, so you might be doing me a favor (no offense Zach Morris).
Why don't you go ahead and start with 2 things: 1. Your dream scenario, 2. Assuming we stay at 17, who you want.
1. Trade up for Ricky Rubio
2. Brandon Jennings to fall, or Eric Maynor.
Off, you, go!
55 comments | 1 recs
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